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  1. #21
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    I wish it was avoidable. I'm dreading another year of school not to mention it's like 300 clinical hours or something crazy


  2. #22
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    I do not see it as being something everyone will have to do. As a matter of fact, I see the private sector will be providing paramedic service in the future. Firefighter/paramedics are pricing themselves out of the market. Once a guy promotes he no longer works as a Paramedic. The cost to train a PM is close to 100K. That's just too much money!

    The privates do not pay as well. The standard to become a paramedic is the same for a private student as well as for a firefighter. Times are changing, and it's not all good for the fire department.
    Paul Lepore
    Division Chief
    Aspiringfirefighters.com
    AspiringFireOfficers.com

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulLepore View Post
    The cost to train a PM is close to 100K. That's just too much money!.

    WTF, $100k??????????? How does it cost that much to send someone through medic school?
    If your going to cry about doing the job you signed up for do us all a favor and quit, there are plenty of dedicated people standing in line for the best job in the world.

    Firefighter/Paramedic

  4. #24
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    WTF - really?
    Let me do the math for you:

    We pay a firefighter 75K (on the west coast).

    I have to pay his salary while he is in school for 6 months. I have to pay time and one half to fill his spot while he is in school. The cost of school is 10K and there is NO guarantee that he will make it. Here is the breakdown.

    Firefighter in school for 6 months - $37,500
    Overtime for firefighter in school - $56,500
    Tuition for Paramedic school - $10,000
    -----------
    Total $103,000
    These are "real" numbers for us on the West coast. I understand that these costs are higher than in most parts of the country.

    By the way Firemedic, I really like and agree with the saying on your signature line.
    Paul Lepore
    Division Chief
    Aspiringfirefighters.com
    AspiringFireOfficers.com

  5. #25
    FossilMedic
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNFF319 View Post
    It is going to be a national standard in a decade or so.
    1) Doubt it will ever become a national standard.

    2) Impact of patient-outcome research is diminishing the return-on-investment for an all-paramedic (or mostly paramedic) fire service.


    http://firegeezer.com/2009/11/22/the-neon-red-elephant-of-ems/


    3) The delivery of "paramedic" level skills will continue to move down the training chain. We are teaching soldiers self/buddy care that includes starting an IV.

    We have moved from restricting the use of AEDs to paramedics only (1984) to anyone with a couple of hours of training.

    Before this generation files for retirement we may see out-of-hospital ems systems with fewer paramedics seeing more patients and performing more skills.

    http://firegeezer.com/2009/03/14/adv...paramedics-20/

    Transport units will be EMT-enhanced, with the Advanced Practice Paramedic handling the 05% of the patients needing aggressive, PATIENT OUTCOME IMPROVING prehospital care.

    At some point, a policy maker will notice that 80% of the "emergency" runs for urban fire departments are ems 1st responder .... that do no require a $500K all-hazards pumper staffed with four highly trained, multiple role responders.

    The implication will ge beyond the Phoenix Ladder Tender or Memphis hyper-user diversion program. May disrupt all we know about municipal fire department deployment.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    For the short term, I would say metro Atlanta will probably require EMT-I and struggle to require 1st line supervisors and higher to obtain AND MAINTAIN a National Registry EMT-Paramedic credential.

    Other places, like Baltimore, wanted an all-paramedic firefighting force but the cost is prohibitive.
    Last edited by MikeWard; 02-08-2011 at 12:44 AM. Reason: expanded, addressed suburban atlanta question

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulLepore View Post
    We pay a firefighter 75K (on the west coast).

    I have to pay his salary while he is in school for 6 months. I have to pay time and one half to fill his spot while he is in school. The cost of school is 10K and there is NO guarantee that he will make it. Here is the breakdown.

    Firefighter in school for 6 months - $37,500
    Overtime for firefighter in school - $56,500
    Tuition for Paramedic school - $10,000
    -----------
    Total $103,000
    These are "real" numbers for us on the West coast. I understand that these costs are higher than in most parts of the country.
    Wow, now I understand. We do it a whole lot differently here. Our dept sends people to the Community College for medic school. The college runs their classes on a firefighter shift schedule, so if your on "A" shift then you go to school on "B" and "C" shift, not on duty. It creates no overtime. The class is also a year long which allows means they don't have school every day during the week, I imagine your guys go mon-fri if its a 6 month class. So the only thing our dept pays for is tuition and books, around $5k.
    If your going to cry about doing the job you signed up for do us all a favor and quit, there are plenty of dedicated people standing in line for the best job in the world.

    Firefighter/Paramedic

  7. #27
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    The program your agency is associated with is absolutely more cost sensitive. There is nothing like that to my knowledge here in LA/Orange County. If there is, it's not being used by the fire department. I hate to say it, but there would probably be too great of push back from the unions.
    As it stands now, many department cannot get firefighters to volunteer to go to school and have to FORCE firefighters to go to school.

    Many smaller departments require a paramedic license as a minimum requirement to take the entry level exam. In essence, this saves the department 100K per hiree. This also causes a rub with the union a sthe firefighters who want to go to paramedic school are being "denied" the opportunity to go to school.

    Mike is right on with his post. The view of a paramedic is changing. Cities are viewing mortality rates and it si not necessarily showing that paramedics make a difference. Sounds counterintuitive, but the data certainly questions whether or not having paramedics really does make a difference. The high cost of the delivery system is what is raising the question.

    As a general rule here on the west coast, the departments with a firefighter medic program pay much higher wages and have better benefit packages and equipment than those who are simply EMT responders. The paramedic program has saved the fire department in many cities.

    I believe cities are beginning to rethink the logic of spending 70% of the city or county's dollars on public safety (90% going for salary and benefits).
    Here in Orange County, the EMS agency recently approved one paramedic and one EMT to staff a paramedic transport rig. That was a big eye opener. Stand by, I predict more to follow.

    For the record, I earned my license 25 years ago (boy I sound old) and I still maintain it today. Part of my responsibilities are to run the EMS division. Riding around on a box as a firefighter medic was one of the highlights of my career. I thoroughly enjoyed it!
    Stay safe everyone,
    Paul Lepore
    Division Chief
    Aspiringfirefighters.com
    AspiringFireOfficers.com

  8. #28
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    The saddest reply to a thread ever for me...

    Bottom line...No money, no fight whether the service is valid or not.
    As long as the national, state, and local governments find themselves underwater in terms of their financial ability to provide services, they're going to be EXTREMELY receptive to cutting, reducing, or privatizing services. Privatizing is a perceived financial windfall to them when it comes to ALS services because private companies will be offering them personnel reductions, equipment cost reductions, and possibly revenue shares on transport pay. They feel the win all the way around while being able to make a public argument that they're being "fiscally and...socially" responsible since good BLS and rapid transport to definitive care has the lion share of credit for good outcomes to critical patients. Watch out guys...This stuff is just getting started. If things continue to get worse (the most likely scenario), you're going to see some huge reductions in service levels, pay, staffing, etc. Sad but true...If you pay close attention to what is being said at all government levels, we're getting softened up for seriously painful change no matter how strong one's argument is for 4 man engines, two in two out, ALS services, specialty services, etc.

    Paramedics are a luxury in these times. The "national standard" will likely be EMT or EMTI at best in my humble opinion.

    Wish I could honestly say differently...

    Paul C.

  9. #29
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    I'm currently in emt school and I'm already signed up for the fire academy which will start right after emt school and my hope is to get a job with just emt and my ff cert. I have no issue with going to medic school down the road (if it was a requirement) once I'm on the job but it would be tough to sign up for another year of classes without having a job and already working be working for a department. From what I've heard in Florida alot of departments will hire you with just emt and fire but they require medic within 2-3 years.

    On another note I'm assuming most guys don't get the medic cert if not required by their department because the pay raise vs. the full year of school and a ton of clinical time isn't worth it in most peoples eyes.

  10. #30
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    In some of the cities around the DFW area, all firefighters are required to become paramedic certified at some point. I tested with Garland, TX last year and was told that if I got on, I would be required to eventually get my paramedic. Other places are just EMT-B I think.

  11. #31
    Dustinney
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    do any of yalls departments have the tac medic class where the police department uses firefighters for there SWAT team medics and if you do do they require you to be a paramedic or just a EMT-I down here in GA it can Be either just depending on where your at

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