1. #1
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    Default Who has sells the best extrication equipment

    Hi,
    Our dept. is looking to purchase all new high pressure extrication equipment. A pump, spreader, cutter, and 2 rams. We demoed with Genesis and did like it but need to know what your opinions are here on firehouse forums. Ideally we would like to get 4-5 manufactures to demo for us but that's not that easy since they are scattered all over the US. We have tried several times in the last few month to get Hurst but no luck. Only Genesis answered our request. Here are a few of my questions - what extrication equipment are you using and are you happy, pros and cons and why did your dept decide to purchase a particular brand over another. Any and all info would be greatly appreciated - (please no sales pitches from salesmen).

    Thank you!

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    If you cant get someone to sell/demo you a set of tools - just think how hard it will be to get them serviced/repaired

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    myself have used multiple brands and i like TNT the best.. good controls, friendly reps and lots of power

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    My department has used Amkus for 20+ years with zero failures and minimal maintenance/repair. We still use the original 1987 set of tools but in a secondary role.

    We have a Genesis mini-cutter and we like it. We also picked up a used Lukas cutter but haven't utilized it much. I've also had some good training experiences with TNT.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    --General James Mattis, USMC


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    We use Hurst, and they work pretty well. Perhaps it's just the model we own, but the spreader is humungous, and it weighs a TON. I also don't like the thumb switch control or where it's located- it just seems awkward to me. I am a leftie, though, so that may be why it feels wrong to me...

    When we had the NYS Extrication course, the instructor brought along a van full of all sorts of goodies- inc a brand new Amkus system. I loved these tools! I found the twist throttle type control much more ergonomical. The tools were also lighter, smaller and better balanced, which I felt gave me much more control. They packed PLENTY of power, too. With todays vehicle construction, finesse counts for at least as much as brute force. You really need to use that force in the right place, or you just get a nasty mess of twisted, torn metal, and the door is still jammed shut! ( $@#&ing Volvos!)

    We do also have a Hurst Palladin combi tool which is lighter and more manouverable.

    Haven't used them, but the Holmatro and TNT tools look pretty nice.

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    For myself, i love Holmatro, i love core system and we have a good rep in my area.

    You have to think also which brand use nearby fire dept if you work with us sometime.

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    Fox - where are you located?? This is a highly competitive market. And Genisis gave you your only reply?? Amazing. I guess the other guys don't wanna sell stuff.

    Anyway - my dept uses Hurst. Why? Because when we bought them years ago they were the only game in town. Over the years we got rid of the old heavy stuff and replaced it with the newer lighter stuff. Works fine for us, although we're not that busy, and don't use them real hard. The Hurst hi-pressure line has come out with some nice stuff in reent years.

    Really, all of the major brands are reputable and build decent products. It often comes down to demo-ing the tools and deciding what is good for your needs. Price can also be an issue, as well as service & repair. Good luck in your search.

    (The Hurst E-Draulic tools also fascinate me, but I'd be hesitant to buy them until they have been on the market for a couple years and see how well the work & hold up. )

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    You have no idea what a mistake yuo have made by posting this question. Do youself a favor- research what brands you are interested in seeing on line, see how close the local dealer/service center is to your firehouse and call no more than 2 more out. You will eliminate confusion and overall headaches. Listening to guys opinions on this forum will be the most misleading thing you will ever experience in your fire service career...RUN WHILE YOU CAN!!!

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    TNT great tools life time warranty

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    Quote Originally Posted by laddercompany20 View Post
    You have no idea what a mistake yuo have made by posting this question. Do youself a favor- research what brands you are interested in seeing on line, see how close the local dealer/service center is to your firehouse and call no more than 2 more out. You will eliminate confusion and overall headaches. Listening to guys opinions on this forum will be the most misleading thing you will ever experience in your fire service career...RUN WHILE YOU CAN!!!
    Without doubt the WORST advise I've ever seen here.Nearby service is VERY important but so is trying tools to see what best suits an agencies requirements. You eliminate confusion by getting as much detail AHEAD of time as you can,compare notes, THEN try the ones you are interested in on head to head trials. T.c.

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    I appreciate all the info. I have a NFPA "score card" from Genesis. Where can I find NFPA scores of all manufactures of extrication equipment? I went to NFPA web site but it looks like you need to pay a subscription to view the info.

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    Quote Originally Posted by desertfox2 View Post
    I appreciate all the info. I have a NFPA "score card" from Genesis. Where can I find NFPA scores of all manufactures of extrication equipment? I went to NFPA web site but it looks like you need to pay a subscription to view the info.
    Along with Genesis, TNT, Hurst, Amkus and Holmatro all have NFPA 1936 ratings of their tools listed on their websites and in most of their literature. If you visit each of their individual websites and view the specs on the individual tools (cutters, spreaders, etc.) you should be able to easily find each of their specific NFPA 1936 ratings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by desertfox2 View Post
    I appreciate all the info. I have a NFPA "score card" from Genesis. Where can I find NFPA scores of all manufactures of extrication equipment? I went to NFPA web site but it looks like you need to pay a subscription to view the info.
    Read what the Nfpa "scorecard" actually amounts to. NOT much that you will be cutting on the street. While it is SOMEWHAT useful info,I prefer to crunch up a few cars and cut them. Results more typical. As steel twists and folds it can add strength you WON'T find in a lab. FWIW T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Read what the Nfpa "scorecard" actually amounts to. NOT much that you will be cutting on the street. While it is SOMEWHAT useful info,I prefer to crunch up a few cars and cut them. Results more typical. As steel twists and folds it can add strength you WON'T find in a lab. FWIW T.C.
    Agree with this 100%. The NFPA rating is only part of the process. You need to get the tools in the hands of your personnel for actual hands on evaluations. Have the sales representatives demo the tools for you and then have them leave you tools to conduct your actual evaluations.

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    As usual, ejfeicht and Rescue101 are both spot on! Great advice.

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    I was part of a trial team in the UK when we were looking to upgrade our hydraulic cutting equipment.We went to a wreckers and triallled many brands over a week period on (Tractor trailor gauge steel, boron, and HSS )including Holmatro, Hurst, Amikus, Zumro, and Clan Lukas.We ended up choosing Holmatro and I think you will find that most UK Fire Brigades use Holmatro now.Pound for pound it was the best in cutting and spreading capacity, ease of handling and the core technology is priceless! Since being a career firefighte in the states I have used Amikus, TNT and Hurst.Now the old boys here think that Hurst and Amkus is the best.but thats because I think they havent really tried using operationally any other brand and that "heaviest is best" mentality.Personally I still think Holmatro is the best but TNT does come a close second without the advantage of core technology it is a definite second.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ejfeicht View Post
    Agree with this 100%. The NFPA rating is only part of the process. You need to get the tools in the hands of your personnel for actual hands on evaluations. Have the sales representatives demo the tools for you and then have them leave you tools to conduct your actual evaluations.
    In order to properly judge a tool without the influence of "tabulated data" you need to get the tool in your hands and use it. Unfortunately, not many fire departments have access to the new Mercedes, BMW, Audi and any high-end vehicle using exotic steels. Admit it, most training (and tool evaluations) are done with your grandmothers car. NFPA is...at the very least...at guideline to tested standards, and not salesman B.S. Besides if you look closely at some of these exotic cars, you'll find the NFPA "A" solid round bar in some A-Post. You'll also find the NFPA "B" Flat Bar in the the B-postl; NFPA "C" tubing also found in A-post; NFPA "D" sqaure tubing found in the rocker panel (okay that's a stretch) and the NFPA "E" angle iron...I'll give that to the hinges. All-in-all I'd rather use that than the information in any sales catalog.

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    Contact the manufacturers you want to look at, if they will not demo equipment for you, forget about them.
    Get your hands on the tools and get the tools on cars, try to test the tools head to head comparing apples to apples.
    We are constantly getting new tools and new systems to try out, the only thing I have seen to be a constant is that there is no manufacturer that sells the perfect system, each has its limitations and its benefits. If you are looking to buy a complete system you will have to make some concessions and you will have to live with them.
    One manufacturer may make a great spreader for every day use, while another makes the big mother spreader with tremendous power that is unweildy for every day use but a great "oh Sh-t" tool. Cutters change constantly, last week we swore by one and this week it is heading for the basement replaced by a "better" big cutter. Power units make a difference too... If you can mix and match you can get the best tools, if that is not an option for your department then demo the systems and find one that works best for your needs.
    Clear as mud right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GFD615 View Post
    In order to properly judge a tool without the influence of "tabulated data" you need to get the tool in your hands and use it. Unfortunately, not many fire departments have access to the new Mercedes, BMW, Audi and any high-end vehicle using exotic steels. Admit it, most training (and tool evaluations) are done with your grandmothers car. NFPA is...at the very least...at guideline to tested standards, and not salesman B.S. Besides if you look closely at some of these exotic cars, you'll find the NFPA "A" solid round bar in some A-Post. You'll also find the NFPA "B" Flat Bar in the the B-postl; NFPA "C" tubing also found in A-post; NFPA "D" sqaure tubing found in the rocker panel (okay that's a stretch) and the NFPA "E" angle iron...I'll give that to the hinges. All-in-all I'd rather use that than the information in any sales catalog.
    Even with OLDER, ordinary vehicles you can get a good trial ESPECIALLY if you mangle them up a little. I had to cut a Caravan the other day with a tool we had been considering in our purchase. NOT impressed on performance on cutting a B post so that tool was not considered further. T.C.

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