1. #1
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    Default Does your department's RIT teams go in with a hose line?

    The title pretty much says it all, also what is your departments reasoning. Some people in my dept think the RIT team should always go in with a charged hose line when attempting a rescue, they use that as an argument against buying search rope for the RIT team to use. To me it seems like you should have the option of rope or a hose line depending on the situation.

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    Upper management seems to think likewise. I like the idea of a can. I agree with your assessment, prima faci, according to conditions.

    The backup line is there to assist in suppression.

    What is the point with the hoseline? Shouldn't the objective be to put a line between the fire and those in harms way?

    If RIT is being employed, quick removal is the goal. If ya gotta fight fire and pull out the victim, ya ain't likely gonna do both at the same time...

    One team with a hose (if needed), and one team to rescue the downed member(s).

    Just my opinion..
    Last edited by Fireeaterbob; 12-07-2010 at 08:18 PM. Reason: spelling
    A coward stands by and watches wrongs committed without saying a word...Any opinions expressed are purely my own and not necessarily reflective of the views of my former departments

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    What if there's no fire, like at a collapse? Do they still think a line is needed? If an engine company calls a MAYDAY they should already have a line there. If the call for help is on a 4th-5th floor dragging a line takes time. Remember what the "R" stands for.
    Also, all calls for help are not in the fire area. You might be dragging in a tool you won't need, and leaving a needed one behind.

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    Personally, I like the idea of assigning an Engine Company to support the RIT if you have the resources. That way the RIT can focus on the rescue and the Engine Company can focus on protecting them and the downed FF(s) without specifically having to pull resources from suppression activities.

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    The people who say this (hose line with RIT) unfortunately are the people who have very little if any actual experience with RIT or truck ops for that matter.

    If they walked the walk and did this even once, they'd grasp that there is no place for dragging a hose line with you as well. R for rapid, I for intervention...

    RIT of all things is no place to cross the line between engine and rescue.

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    If needed additional manpower should be assigned to bring a line. The RIT team needs to be able to move quickly, also many instances my not even be helped by bringing a line.

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    Our policy is that all units will continue to operate and perform the task they were assigned unless an evacuation is called for.

    No, our FAST will not take a hoseline in with them (as a general rule).
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Our policy is that all units will continue to operate and perform the task they were assigned unless an evacuation is called for.

    No, our FAST will not take a hoseline in with them (as a general rule).
    Same here.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Cool How I Run RIT

    On my Crew if we are assigned RIT/RIC, we will pull a line and have it ready if needed. We are also a "Dynamic RIT" so we soften the building, perform our RIT 360, pull our tools, constantly update our position and move with the Fire Attack Team, throw ladders if the Fire Attack Team is operating on an upper floor and I give my Rescue Assignments before we are activated.

    If we are activated, if we are going to pass the bulk of the fire then we will take the hose line with us. If we are not going to encounter the fire, then we leave it. When we take the line, it is not for complete fire suppression it is for the protection of our Rescue Team and our Victim. Once the Rescue Team is out of the area, the line is left so that another Fire Attack Team can follow it and extinguish the fire.

    Crews that don't take the RIT/RIC Assignment seriously are a disappointment to me.....
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    Remembering a while back the terms RIT line and Backup line were blurred together. Just clarifying those are two separate lines.

    We drop a handline for the RIT team. It is not required to be taken in with the RIT team if they are deployed to rescue a firefighter. It is there if needed... say the mayday is for a crew who's egress is blocked by fire. Putting this line on the ground is a good tactic in my mind, as it saves time and effort later if needed quickly in an emergency. Again, it is not expected to enter with the team unless the situation dictates.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    Personally, I like the idea of assigning an Engine Company to support the RIT if you have the resources. That way the RIT can focus on the rescue and the Engine Company can focus on protecting them and the downed FF(s) without specifically having to pull resources from suppression activities.
    I like this, unfortunately, manpower restrictions do not make this option available to many.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibbs12 View Post
    The title pretty much says it all, also what is your departments reasoning. Some people in my dept think the RIT team should always go in with a charged hose line when attempting a rescue, they use that as an argument against buying search rope for the RIT team to use. To me it seems like you should have the option of rope or a hose line depending on the situation.
    We usually have at least two attack lines going and one RIC standing by, the RIC is too extract the downed firefighters YESTERDAY, not to fight fire. That's where the other attack line comes in, in collapses, we will shut down all lines except for a safety line and begin rescue efforts and needed. We do carry two search lines, a 100' and a 200' utility rope, in addition to the personal tool each crew member carries.

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    Situation dependant.

    I'll be honest and say that in most structure fire situations, we do not have a Rapid Intervention Team in place.

    Given that the vast majority of our fires are homes - either mobile or site built -of 2000 sf or less, there is already more than likely a line and a team in close proximity to a downed firefighter. In most cases, if that situation occurred, a member or team already inside would locate the member before RIT even got into the building, and unless there was a significant issue, would assist the member or remove the member.

    In a commercial building, the call of a hoseline, search rope or free-search would be the call of the IC, and would be dependent on a number of factors, including the nature of the RIT emergency and manpower available for the operation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I'll be honest and say that in most structure fire situations, we do not have a Rapid Intervention Team in place.
    Don't need one if you don't go interior... Wanted to be the first to say it.
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    Obviously a hose team should be assigned with the RIT whenever necessary (perhaps even "always"), but otherwise it's like having the primary search team take a hoseline with them: Are you trying to get there in time to save a life, or just hump another hoseline along?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FiremanLyman View Post
    Remembering a while back the terms RIT line and Backup line were blurred together. Just clarifying those are two separate lines.

    Amen, preach it brother!

    Seems to be a distinction that is usually blurred by a) poor or inadequate training or b) poor or inadequate staffing, or c) all of the above.
    Last edited by Fireeaterbob; 12-09-2010 at 06:21 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiremanLyman View Post
    Don't need one if you don't go interior... Wanted to be the first to say it.
    Could discuss that again .. nahhhhh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Could discuss that again .. nahhhhh.
    Just busting balls. And wanted to get it in before anyone else called it!
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    In a commercial building, the call of a hoseline, search rope or free-search would be the call of the IC, and would be dependent on a number of factors, including the nature of the RIT emergency and manpower available for the operation.
    I am only curious, why does the I.C. make this decision? We train that the C.O. of the R.I.T. makes the decision on how he and his Team are going to make the "grab." In my mind all I need the I.C. to do is give me "time checks", make rehab available for my Guys and I and feed me the resources I need to make the "grab."

    If the I.C. is going to make the call, does he perform a "R.I.C. 360"? Does he stay updated on what is happening and continually evaluate the best access? Does the Command Post move as the Interior Teams move, because a "Dynamic R.I.T." should be moving with the Interior Team(s).

    I ask because I am puzzled.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyboy View Post
    I am only curious, why does the I.C. make this decision? We train that the C.O. of the R.I.T. makes the decision on how he and his Team are going to make the "grab." In my mind all I need the I.C. to do is give me "time checks", make rehab available for my Guys and I and feed me the resources I need to make the "grab."

    If the I.C. is going to make the call, does he perform a "R.I.C. 360"? Does he stay updated on what is happening and continually evaluate the best access? Does the Command Post move as the Interior Teams move, because a "Dynamic R.I.T." should be moving with the Interior Team(s).

    I ask because I am puzzled.....
    Interesting thoughts.

    In our system, as i have stated, it's not often that we have a pre-staged RIT. We should, but often we don't.

    If there is a RIT situation, and interior crews do not handle the situation, a crew or crews is built using manpower in staging or rehab (Yes, and don't get me started on that ...).

    Because of that, we don't have a team surveying the situation, preparing equipment and taking pre-emptive actions such as laddering windows or forcing doors for escape (actually we have only a handful of 2nd story windows).

    In our system, the IC, or Operations in the very rare larger incident, are the ones making the 360s and generally have most of situational information. Because of that, they are the ones most prepared to run (at least the initial stages) of the RIT operation. Down the line, according to our SOPs, the function is supposed to be handed off to another Chief officer or Captain.

    I can see your point, especially if you have dedicated RIT teams and RIT officers staged.

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    We do not have a line specific to the RIT team. If we need a line for RIT a seperate crew operates the line. What we have discovered through hours and hours of training, and drills, is that expecting the RIT crew to advance a line rapidly enough to find a downed firefighter and then have enough energy left to extricate them if trapped is next to impossible. In fact we have switched to a 2 RIT team set-up. One team finds the downed firefighter, extricates them and begins removal, all physically taxing events. The second team will come in relieve the first team and finish the removal. Because they are fresh they are more rapidly able to remove the downed firefighter from the building.
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    Ok, I see now... That's interesting...

    Just a word to the wise, you may want to have the RIT preassembled that way when the "Mayday", "Emergency Traffic" or whatever you call it happens you don't have a bunch of scrambling for tools, personnel and delay the "grab" of one of our own. I am very proactive and if I have to call the Emergency Traffic I want ot know that "the boys" are coming to help me.

    Also, we don't have dedicated RIT teams, we have either a RIT (2 personnel) or a RIC (4 personnel). On large commercial/wide-rise occupancies we will go with multiple RIC for each entry point, but that is not until our Mutual Aid Units get on scene.

    If you want to justify the manpower just research the facts from Phoenix FD "Firefighter Rescue Drill" that they did. For (1) downed firefighter in a commercial occupancy it took (10) well trained RIT to make the "grab."
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    Mikey ..

    I fully understand the need for a pre-assembled RIT. Bottom line is that in most commercial/retail situations, the manpower is simply often not there.

    Due to the size of the fire districts in this area (often in excess of 200 square miles) we are effectively limited to 2 mutual aid combo departments, both with limited manpower. We have a third, but they will not send us resources unless they are put to work, and have told us that if they are assigned to a standby RIT, they are to return home. In addition, they will only send 1 3-firefighter company.

    When our response is good, we able to staff a RIT. When it's not, it's simply not an option.

    Residential fires we have few manpower issues and are usually able to staff a RIT, however, given the smaller sizes of most of our homes combined with no basements and only a handful with 2nd floors, the chance of a mayday in these structures is less likely.

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    Well I suppose I throw my $0.02 in.

    Though it unfortunetly varies from Dept. to Dept. exactly how RIT is conducted, I can speak for our Dept and a few others whome we have mirrored in an attempt to atleast standardize practices with our closet mutual aid partners. For us when called MA for a RIT assignment we roll one engine company with a minimum of four personell. When we arrive, we remove every last piece of equipment we might need for the assignment and carry it to our staging area at the scene. This includes a bag of search rope, BLS kit, tools (Irons, closet hooks etc) the TIC, a can, one 24' extention ladder and we procure an uncharged hoseline from one of the trucks operating at the scene.

    From there the CO will conduct his 360, and if he see's fit start to Ladder the building if not already done so. The team istelf will set up our EQ at our staging point, and stand ready if the need arises. If the need does arise and we are called in, the hoseline ALWAYS goes with us. Uncharged, until we specify otherwise. Our reasoning being you just never know when a hoseline might be needed, and I'd rather drag one in and not need it. Then go in without one and get trapped by fire myself.
    Opinions expressed by myself here are just that, mine. And not that of ANY organization or service I am affiliated with.

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    We have a tarp which comes out of the truck at all structures fires for RIT.

    The equipment and quantity vary somewhat for commercial v. residential fires, however the basic package includes some hand tools, chainsaw or K-12 depending on comm v res, 2 spare SCBA, spare bottles, handlights, TIC (if not being used in the operation), rope bags and stokes.

    The juniors and support personnel are responsible for setting up the equipment.

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