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    Default Front Bumper Speedlays ??

    Can any of you that currently run with speedlays in the front bumper let me know your likes and dislikes. Also I would like to know if you run with a full speedlay that comes out the side of the bumper and if so do your couplings hang on the frame rails? Looking into specifying this on some new custom pumpers and need to here from those of you that have them.
    Thanks in Advance!

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    Bumper rolls: 200 ft. x2 in the bumper, deploy in line with the engine vs. toward the curb allowing the load to fully hit the street before running into any obstacles. Re-racks in less than a minute with pre-rolled hoses and deploys withing 25' of the bumper. Also allows the FFer to drag all the hose to the objective, dropping loops as they go. Search the forums here, bumper loads of all types has been discussed repeatedly.

    Here's a link to one thread:
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...t=bumper+rolls (Bumper donut roll search)
    Last edited by RFDACM02; 12-08-2010 at 05:31 PM.

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    You will probably end up going with a front bumper trough and depending on manufacturer, you can get one that is full width of the truck, or one that just works as a bucket. For front bumper discharges, take into account where you want your swivel... up on top of the bumper, or in the trough. Top of the bumper always works out the best because it allows for easier movement/deployment. Take into account how you will pack your hose and what length you really want up there. Make sure that you get a decent cover and that it will be notched to allow the hose to remain pre-connected. On mine, I have doughnut rolls in the deepest part of the trough in case I need extra length added to my existing pre-connect. I can safely run 250' of 2 1/2" off the front bumper easily. That discharge is also set up with the foam system in case I want that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Conehead222 View Post
    Can any of you that currently run with speedlays in the front bumper let me know your likes and dislikes.
    We haven't run with one lately but have in the past. Personally, I like them for car fires and similar short stretch incidents.

    If you're spec'ing and engine with one, keep friction loss in mind. Front bumper line piping often ends up with a lot of bends and elbows that add to friction loss. You might want to spec oversized piping to compensate.
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    Our newest rescue pumper (Marion) has 150 foot of preconnect 1 3/4" on the front bumper, along with a hydraulic combi tool. The preconnect can be charged directly from the driver seat, making small trash fires and such very easy for even a two man crew.

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    We have 2-200 foot 2 inch pre-connects on our 2005 HME rescue pumper.

    We love them, easy to deploy and very easy to reload. It takes less than 5 minutes to reload them with 2 guys and there is no climbing up on the rig. hence so slip or fall hazard.

    I have attached the link to a previous topic where I posted pictures of this engine. This site will not allow me to repost them here.

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    2 1/2" swiveled discharge on top of front bumper with gated wye. This discharge is plumbed for CAFS but can also flow class A foam or plain water. Hose well in the bumper holds 100' of 1 3/4" preconnected in a modified double donut load for quick deployment. Easy to deploy and easy to reload.
    Attached Images Attached Images    

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    Fulltime department has 110' attack line in front bumper trough of our custom engine, primarily for vehicle fires. Booster line and/or forestry line is the primary line for brush fires.Commercial engines are not equipped with an extended front bumper.

    Volunteer department has one engine with 150' and 200' lines in front bumper troughs. We utilize it, again, primarily for vehicle fires. it is our primary interstate response engine. We will also pull them for brush fires as the engine is not equipped with a booster line.

    Crosslays in both situations are utilized for structural fire attack.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 12-08-2010 at 10:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Conehead222 View Post
    Can any of you that currently run with speedlays in the front bumper let me know your likes and dislikes. Also I would like to know if you run with a full speedlay that comes out the side of the bumper and if so do your couplings hang on the frame rails? Looking into specifying this on some new custom pumpers and need to here from those of you that have them.
    Thanks in Advance!
    Thanks for the replies! I should have been more specific, we currently have trash lines in our bumpers(between the frame rails) but have recently seen the speedlays that go the entire length of the front bumper. I am a little concerned with weakening the front bumper if the frame rails are cut down or hose couplings hanging on them if they are left at full width, so I guess what I am saying is I want my cake and to eat it too!

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    On our rescue engine. 100 feet of 1 3/4 vinyl hose. Mainly dedicated for car fires. Quick and no clean up.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Our newest 4Guys engine has dual crosslays in the bumper. The swivel is underneath-otherwise it would get in the way of stretching to one side or the other. The troughs are partly in the bumper, and partly on top- so they sit on the frame rails. The piping is between the frame members. I'm not sure what size pipe is used though.

    The point about friction loss is a good one. You need to flow test them to find your needed discharge pressure.

    These are our primary attack lines. 2, 1.75" 200 ft lines. The only crosslay is a 250' 2.5" preconnect. The main hosebed features a second 2.5 precon, and a 2.5 deadload leader line. We keep 2) 100' 1.75" hose packs in a compartment.

    They work out pretty good. Repacking is a snap, and so is deploying- no more climbing or stretching for a hose 8' up in the air!! As crosslays, they are designed to be pulled off the side, but since they are at thigh height and the cover is a tarp, you can stretch em off the front with a bit more effort if you need to. We use 5" hose and forward lays, so working off the front makes sense for us. This engine is first due outside the village, and usually ends up nosed in the driveway, if there's no room for the quint. Both are piped for class A foam as well.

    The hose troughs are fully enclosed on the bottom and sides( except for the swivel), so I don't see how couplings could hang up on the frame members? Ours are wide enough for 2 pieces of hose to lie side by side, so it's less likely for a coupling to get caught in the bed. Like any crosslay, it's best if you pull it to the side, and not against the edge. If you need to go forward, you need to go over the top.
    Last edited by Nozzle nut 22; 12-08-2010 at 11:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Conehead222 View Post
    Thanks for the replies! I should have been more specific, we currently have trash lines in our bumpers(between the frame rails) but have recently seen the speedlays that go the entire length of the front bumper. I am a little concerned with weakening the front bumper if the frame rails are cut down or hose couplings hanging on them if they are left at full width, so I guess what I am saying is I want my cake and to eat it too!
    The bumper rolls allow you to "have your cake and eat it too"! We have one 200 ft roll on each outside of the frame rails. The supply is a single 2.5" line to a gated wye between the rails. As shown below:
    Attached Images Attached Images    

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    Thumbs down Don't do it!!

    Far too many engine drivers and officers already lack the discipline or sense to pull past the house on fire. This simple tactic leaves room open for the truck and actually makes the stretch easier, but it is overlooked because we have to line the hose up with the front door.

    Have a bumper line for trash and car fires. Other than that, leave hose off of the bumper. More lines on the bumper are just going to be another excuse for poor engine placement.
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    It all depends. Some don't run with truck companies, and many rural occupancies have no room for a truck. Bumper lines make it easier to stretch an attack line when you're in the driveway.

    I've got quite a few homes in my district with driveways that are 1-2000' long! Not to mention narrow, twisty, and/or steep. I know of at least one with a light duty bridge in the middle of it... The only way to make a timely attack is to lay in up the drive. From that position, stretching from a main hosebed is a p.i.t.a. and will require more hose, to boot! And that's assuming there is no landscaping, trees etc in the way. That's why we also carry truck co gear on the engine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nozzle nut 22 View Post
    I've got quite a few homes in my district with driveways that are 1-2000' long! Not to mention narrow, twisty, and/or steep. I know of at least one with a light duty bridge in the middle of it... The only way to make a timely attack is to lay in up the drive. From that position, stretching from a main hosebed is a p.i.t.a. and will require more hose, to boot! And that's assuming there is no landscaping, trees etc in the way. That's why we also carry truck co gear on the engine.
    Ours also come equipped with "reverse".
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Far too many engine drivers and officers already lack the discipline or sense to pull past the house on fire. This simple tactic leaves room open for the truck and actually makes the stretch easier, but it is overlooked because we have to line the hose up with the front door.

    Have a bumper line for trash and car fires. Other than that, leave hose off of the bumper. More lines on the bumper are just going to be another excuse for poor engine placement.

    You don't have to like the front bumper crosslay set-up and you don't have to use it. For our situation and our tactics it works very well. We have no truck company and both of our engines carry truck equipment like fans, saws, extra hooks, and more. And the reality of the situation is that even if we pull pastthe house pulling a 200 foot bumper pre-connect is not handicapped by that positioning.
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    Hey if you want to back all the way up that driveway, be my guest. Kind of hard to lay hose that way, though.

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    I'm with MemphisE34a on tactics and use of the bumper lines. They should be used for quick attack, quick extinguishment of a fire. Cars, trash, etc. They should never be used as an interior line. The friction loss of using a bumper line is doubled compared to using a crosslay of the same size. JMHO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    I'm with MemphisE34a on tactics and use of the bumper lines. They should be used for quick attack, quick extinguishment of a fire. Cars, trash, etc. They should never be used as an interior line. The friction loss of using a bumper line is doubled compared to using a crosslay of the same size. JMHO.

    FM1
    If its plumbed properly its no issue at all. Why not use hose bed preconnects if you're past the building and bumper preconnects if your parked before the building or in front of it????

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nozzle nut 22 View Post
    Our newest 4Guys engine has dual crosslays in the bumper. The swivel is underneath-otherwise it would get in the way of stretching to one side or the other. The troughs are partly in the bumper, and partly on top- so they sit on the frame rails. The piping is between the frame members. I'm not sure what size pipe is used though.

    The point about friction loss is a good one. You need to flow test them to find your needed discharge pressure.

    These are our primary attack lines. 2, 1.75" 200 ft lines. The only crosslay is a 250' 2.5" preconnect. The main hosebed features a second 2.5 precon, and a 2.5 deadload leader line. We keep 2) 100' 1.75" hose packs in a compartment.

    They work out pretty good. Repacking is a snap, and so is deploying- no more climbing or stretching for a hose 8' up in the air!! As crosslays, they are designed to be pulled off the side, but since they are at thigh height and the cover is a tarp, you can stretch em off the front with a bit more effort if you need to. We use 5" hose and forward lays, so working off the front makes sense for us. This engine is first due outside the village, and usually ends up nosed in the driveway, if there's no room for the quint. Both are piped for class A foam as well.

    The hose troughs are fully enclosed on the bottom and sides( except for the swivel), so I don't see how couplings could hang up on the frame members? Ours are wide enough for 2 pieces of hose to lie side by side, so it's less likely for a coupling to get caught in the bed. Like any crosslay, it's best if you pull it to the side, and not against the edge. If you need to go forward, you need to go over the top.
    Thanks, I can certainly see if yours are on top of the rails they would not hang up but we recently visited the Rosey plant and they had one in the plant that laid across the rails which looked to me like the couplings would hang up.
    Currently we have specified 2 compartments on the front bumper, one for our 1 inch washdown/forestry and one for the 1.75 car fire/quick knockdown line which we think will work well for our tactics. The Engine also has 3 speedlays, 1-2.5, 2-1.75 so with these and the bumper line we should be good to go.
    I appreciate all of your comments both pro and con! Be safe!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Far too many engine drivers and officers already lack the discipline or sense to pull past the house on fire. This simple tactic leaves room open for the truck and actually makes the stretch easier, but it is overlooked because we have to line the hose up with the front door.
    How about those of us that routinely have 500'+ approaches down rural driveways, don't have a truck within 20 miles, and are typcially nosing-in to most of our occupancies? The front bumper pre-connects might not be the answer for all, but making a blanket statement about how they advocate poor engine company tactics isn't fair either.

    Plumb them with 2.5" to the front bumper, no worries about the FL. How do I know? At work, we run a 2.5" front bumper discharge to a 150' 1.75" crosslay for interior attack on the small homes with about a 15' setback from the curb...and we're easily maintaining a 150gpm flow on it.

    And I have to agree with the the brother about attempting lay in while backing up a 500' driveway....
    Last edited by BoxAlarm187; 12-09-2010 at 12:56 PM.
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    I'll edit my setiments to include "in urban settings".
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    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


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    Here's a second (or third) vote for the donut roll pre-connects (nice pics, Adam!) and for 2 1/2"-3" plumbing to the bumper.

    Memphis:
    In addition to the other reasons mentioned (long driveways, no truck co, etc) for bumper attack lines, I'd counter your statement by saying that they're the perfect complement to a good attack line setup in the rear bed. In our district, at least half of the time the truck company is going to be responding from the opposite direction, and a lot of the streets are narrow. If we pull past the building in those situations, we're actually blocking out the truck. Having both front and rear attack lines allows the flexibility for either condition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Far too many engine drivers and officers already lack the discipline or sense to pull past the house on fire. This simple tactic leaves room open for the truck and actually makes the stretch easier, but it is overlooked because we have to line the hose up with the front door.
    While I agree with the common misplacement issue, I'd favor a policy backed by personnel who understand and follow such basic tactics.

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    We put a line on the bumper for car fires, pure and simple. We are often restricted by the NJSP on the interstate to operating in one lane or 2 lanes. So to flake out a crosslay may not work well.

    For all other attacks, I don't know that I buy into the fact that a line coming off the side will set you back in your fire attack.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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