Traffic vests or not?

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12-19-2010, 12:31 PM
CaptOldTimer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firehouse_Chick

More and more departments are making vests mandatory for the roadway. Does yours? Yes or no, and please explain the reasons or studies, ect...

No? Not "all" believe the vest is more helpful than turnouts or even helps at all. I'm noticing a school of thought that believes your bunker gear reflective stripes are equivalent or actually better. others even think that traffic vests are hoopla and some believe that the concern to get everyone in a vest during a non -MVA/MVC scenario can even interfere with getting things done.

Yes? Many do believe in vests and even wear them at structure fires, when they shut down highways and at car fires with their air packs on. some wear them almost every time they get off of the rig.

Discuss...

Why didn't you just go to the thread on this in the firefighter safety section???? :eek:

http://www.firehouse.com/forums/f318/
12-19-2010, 04:05 PM
BKDRAFT

Quote:

Originally Posted by emt161

When one of you gets plastered and the feds deny PSOB benefits because you weren't taking federally mandated precautions on a roadway, go with that. I'm honestly curious how it will pan out.

Don't believe me? Life insurance companies have been known to deny payment to beneficiaries of MVA fatalities who weren't wearing a seatbelt. What makes you think the federal government will be more forgiving?

Give me a break. Wearing a vest is not going to prevent someone from hitting me. Paying attention to where I am and where I am walking will.

The CHP who are on the highway the most are taking an opposite approach. They are trying to blend in and not create hazards and distractions by flashing lights and reflectors.

Using your analogy of not paying for benefits wouldn't happen either. Show me wear someone wasn't compensated for a cancer claim for not wearing an SCBA? How about for not wearing an OSHA/NFPA approved helmet?

All the lights, stickers, reflectors, flares, and cones in the world will protect you more than keeping your head on a swivel.
12-19-2010, 04:31 PM
FIREMECH1

Our FD SOP/SOG is simple..... "If your feet hit the street, the vest is on your chest". As for vehicle fires, I don't honestly know. They don't wear them for structure fires.

I'm not with the FD, but I wear mine when doing roadside work. On scene, I don't.

FM1
12-19-2010, 04:46 PM
snowball

Quote:

Originally Posted by BKDRAFT

Give me a break. Wearing a vest is not going to prevent someone from hitting me. Paying attention to where I am and where I am walking will.

The CHP who are on the highway the most are taking an opposite approach. They are trying to blend in and not create hazards and distractions by flashing lights and reflectors.

Using your analogy of not paying for benefits wouldn't happen either. Show me wear someone wasn't compensated for a cancer claim for not wearing an SCBA? How about for not wearing an OSHA/NFPA approved helmet?

All the lights, stickers, reflectors, flares, and cones in the world will not protect you more than keeping your head on a swivel.

I agree with this. We have them on the engines and trucks, usually wadded up under the back seat. Highway Patrol does not wear them here either. Proper apparatus placement and being alert will do a lot more than some redundant fishnet vest will.
12-19-2010, 04:47 PM
BoxAlarm187

Quote:

Originally Posted by BKDRAFT

Give me a break. Wearing a vest is not going to prevent someone from hitting me. Paying attention to where I am and where I am walking will.

Excuses...just put the thing on. The rest of us don't have any problems getting them on and off...wear it and give the public one more way to see you.

Quote:

Show me wear someone wasn't compensated for a cancer claim for not wearing an SCBA?

Are you serious? We've got members of our department that have been in litigation for years having their cancer benefits denied - and we were one of the original presumption states.
12-19-2010, 05:11 PM
firefightinirish217

On top of the post above, in some places it's actually required by the department's insurance carrier. And, if I'm not mistaken, BULL correct me if I'm wrong here as I'm new to firefighting in NC, it is NC state law that you wear one unless you are doing extrication or firefighting.
12-19-2010, 07:48 PM
Firehouse_Chick

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowball

I agree with this. We have them on the engines and trucks, usually wadded up under the back seat. Highway Patrol does not wear them here either. Proper apparatus placement and being alert will do a lot more than some redundant fishnet vest will.

I like snowball and bkdraft's post the best.

Bkdraft, you sound a lot like my brother and his friends. PS, SFD is a breath of fresh air over there on the left coast.

Snowball, you're posts always lighten mood around here, always at the right moment. Through the humor, I also observe an understated command of the job. Talk backed with walk. I like you both particularly, you remind me of my bro and his "brothers".

Thanks for all the opinions.
12-19-2010, 07:55 PM
Firehouse_Chick

Btw, I know many will continue to reference my thread with fyred. I was abrasive. That's how I am. Please know, I'm not as bad as you think. In that thread, Fyred made a comment out of a moment of frustration. It was poor taste and I recognized he would prob regret it, so I deleted it. I don't wish grief on anyone and instinctively felt bad for him although the comment was insulting.

I am immature. When faced with his disagreement, my FDNY comment to him was akin to; "my dad can beat up your dad".

Fyred, thanks for your guidance. I'm used to an environment of verbal beatings and will never shy away from criticism.

Jonnee, you didn't read my post you quoted. I didn't state an opinions, I presented the info I knew of and asked for opinions.
12-19-2010, 09:27 PM
BULL321

Quote:

Originally Posted by firefightinirish217

On top of the post above, in some places it's actually required by the department's insurance carrier. And, if I'm not mistaken, BULL correct me if I'm wrong here as I'm new to firefighting in NC, it is NC state law that you wear one unless you are doing extrication or firefighting.

It's Not a State Law here in N.C. but. . . . . . . AND this is the way that it was presented to me and my Fire Dept. If you are operating on a federally funded Rd/hwy/interstate, you must wear a vest. The exceptions to the rule are as follows. If there is a fire or chance of a fire the FFs operating in the hot zone are not required to wear a vest. If the road is shut down only the flagmen at either end of the scene are the only ones required to wear a vest. As it applies to LEOs If I'm making a vehicle stop, I don't have to wear my reflective vest. If I am taking any type of law enforcement action, I don't have to wear my vest. (officer safety issue) But if I'm at work at the Sheriff's Office or at on a call for the Fire Dept. and on a road that receives Federal money then you have to wear a vest. That goes for everyone, EMS Rescue Squad, FF, LEOs, Wrecker Drivers, Dot workers whoever.

Since sometimes its hard to tell what roads receive fed funds, and it makes good sense our SOG's state that we wear our traffic vest at all incidents that occur on the roadway. The only exceptions are the ones listed above.
12-19-2010, 10:15 PM
tree68

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowball

I agree with this. We have them on the engines and trucks, usually wadded up under the back seat. Highway Patrol does not wear them here either. Proper apparatus placement and being alert will do a lot more than some redundant fishnet vest will.

If I can add a layer of protection, I will. We've had people (family members) bust through roadblocks to reach a scene. Anything that helps him/her see me in their excitement is a plus.
12-19-2010, 10:18 PM
LittleFireChick

I don't want to drag the discussion into another direction, but I do have a question regarding safety gear. I was told when I worked at the police department if you are caught by OSHA at a traffic wreck scene without proper safety gear on you could be fined. Is this true? I did a quick Google search, but didn't immediately find anything specifically related to firemen wearing vests on the roadside.
12-19-2010, 10:34 PM
nmfire

This traffic safety vest has nothing to do with OSHA so that wouldn't have anything to do with it.

If an OSHA compliance officer driving around town happens to notice someone doing something that blatantly violates a standing OSHA regulation, yes they can take enforcement action.
12-19-2010, 10:40 PM
snowball

Quote:

Originally Posted by tree68

If I can add a layer of protection, I will. We've had people (family members) bust through roadblocks to reach a scene. Anything that helps him/her see me in their excitement is a plus.

I can respect that. We're more metro so PD is usually on scene when we get there or shortly after. Freeway stuff gets a lane or two shut down by Highway Patrol. If someone blows through that and hits you, well, your number was up vest or no vest. My opinion.
12-20-2010, 12:06 AM
BULL321

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowball

I can respect that. We're more metro so PD is usually on scene when we get there or shortly after. Freeway stuff gets a lane or two shut down by Highway Patrol. If someone blows through that and hits you, well, your number was up vest or no vest. My opinion.

I agree with you, but since the Boss man says wear them, we wear them.

On a more personal note, I don't believe for one minute that if the dumb s.o.b. cant see the damn fire truck(s) with all the lights and stripes, then they are not going to see me in my traffic vest. :eek:

We joke that if nothing else if and when we get ran over, if its dark, at the least the vest will make locating and recovering the body easier! :D
12-20-2010, 12:35 AM
BKDRAFT

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187

Excuses...just put the thing on. The rest of us don't have any problems getting them on and off...wear it and give the public one more way to see you.

Are you serious? We've got members of our department that have been in litigation for years having their cancer benefits denied - and we were one of the original presumption states.

That's your opinion. That isn't how we do it out here.

I work in the state where the first cancer presumption law was created. All cancer claims are initially denied regardless. I am a two time cancer survivor with history fighting California's cancer presumption laws. What else would you like to disagree with me on?
12-20-2010, 07:46 AM
nmfire

Quote:

Originally Posted by BKDRAFT

That's your opinion. That isn't how we do it out here.

I work in the state where the first cancer presumption law was created. All cancer claims are initially denied regardless. I am a two time cancer survivor with history fighting California's cancer presumption laws. What else would you like to disagree with me on?

Bull. Please don't degrade other cancer patients, victims, and survivors by throwing that out there like some card you can play when it has absolutely nothing to do with this AT ALL. It's insulting and you look like a complete ***. Loser.
12-20-2010, 07:50 AM
BULL321

Just for a minute, I thought you were talking to me. Never mind carry on.
12-20-2010, 07:56 AM
snowball

Quote:

Originally Posted by nmfire

Bull. Please don't degrade other cancer patients, victims, and survivors by throwing that out there like some card you can play when it has absolutely nothing to do with this AT ALL. It's insulting and you look like a complete ***. Loser.

Actually brother, he's telling the truth. No BS.
12-20-2010, 08:27 AM
Rescue101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firehouse_Chick

Btw, I know many will continue to reference my thread with fyred. I was abrasive. That's how I am. Please know, I'm not as bad as you think. In that thread, Fyred made a comment out of a moment of frustration. It was poor taste and I recognized he would prob regret it, so I deleted it. I don't wish grief on anyone and instinctively felt bad for him although the comment was insulting.

I am immature. When faced with his disagreement, my FDNY comment to him was akin to; "my dad can beat up your dad".

Fyred, thanks for your guidance. I'm used to an environment of verbal beatings and will never shy away from criticism.

Jonnee, you didn't read my post you quoted. I didn't state an opinions, I presented the info I knew of and asked for opinions.

NO,you're another YOUNG one that should do a WHOLE LOT LESS talking and MORE listening. What YOU KNOW about Fire/emergencies you could put in a thimble and an ant couldn't take a bath. Don't know who your Brother is but he's either giving you BAD information OR YOU are not LISTENING,hard to tell from here. T.C.
12-20-2010, 08:30 AM
Rescue101

Quote:

Originally Posted by tree68

If I can add a layer of protection, I will. We've had people (family members) bust through roadblocks to reach a scene. Anything that helps him/her see me in their excitement is a plus.

They "bust" thru a line here,they WILL be in the back of a cruiser,cut and dried. ZERO tolerance for people entering the action zone that aren't Responders. T.C.

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