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Thread: Traffic vests or not?

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    On top of the post above, in some places it's actually required by the department's insurance carrier. And, if I'm not mistaken, BULL correct me if I'm wrong here as I'm new to firefighting in NC, it is NC state law that you wear one unless you are doing extrication or firefighting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    I agree with this. We have them on the engines and trucks, usually wadded up under the back seat. Highway Patrol does not wear them here either. Proper apparatus placement and being alert will do a lot more than some redundant fishnet vest will.
    I like snowball and bkdraft's post the best.

    Bkdraft, you sound a lot like my brother and his friends. PS, SFD is a breath of fresh air over there on the left coast.

    Snowball, you're posts always lighten mood around here, always at the right moment. Through the humor, I also observe an understated command of the job. Talk backed with walk. I like you both particularly, you remind me of my bro and his "brothers".

    Thanks for all the opinions.

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    Btw, I know many will continue to reference my thread with fyred. I was abrasive. That's how I am. Please know, I'm not as bad as you think. In that thread, Fyred made a comment out of a moment of frustration. It was poor taste and I recognized he would prob regret it, so I deleted it. I don't wish grief on anyone and instinctively felt bad for him although the comment was insulting.

    I am immature. When faced with his disagreement, my FDNY comment to him was akin to; "my dad can beat up your dad".

    Fyred, thanks for your guidance. I'm used to an environment of verbal beatings and will never shy away from criticism.

    Jonnee, you didn't read my post you quoted. I didn't state an opinions, I presented the info I knew of and asked for opinions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firefightinirish217 View Post
    On top of the post above, in some places it's actually required by the department's insurance carrier. And, if I'm not mistaken, BULL correct me if I'm wrong here as I'm new to firefighting in NC, it is NC state law that you wear one unless you are doing extrication or firefighting.
    It's Not a State Law here in N.C. but. . . . . . . AND this is the way that it was presented to me and my Fire Dept. If you are operating on a federally funded Rd/hwy/interstate, you must wear a vest. The exceptions to the rule are as follows. If there is a fire or chance of a fire the FFs operating in the hot zone are not required to wear a vest. If the road is shut down only the flagmen at either end of the scene are the only ones required to wear a vest. As it applies to LEOs If I'm making a vehicle stop, I don't have to wear my reflective vest. If I am taking any type of law enforcement action, I don't have to wear my vest. (officer safety issue) But if I'm at work at the Sheriff's Office or at on a call for the Fire Dept. and on a road that receives Federal money then you have to wear a vest. That goes for everyone, EMS Rescue Squad, FF, LEOs, Wrecker Drivers, Dot workers whoever.

    Since sometimes its hard to tell what roads receive fed funds, and it makes good sense our SOG's state that we wear our traffic vest at all incidents that occur on the roadway. The only exceptions are the ones listed above.
    Stay Safe
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    I agree with this. We have them on the engines and trucks, usually wadded up under the back seat. Highway Patrol does not wear them here either. Proper apparatus placement and being alert will do a lot more than some redundant fishnet vest will.
    If I can add a layer of protection, I will. We've had people (family members) bust through roadblocks to reach a scene. Anything that helps him/her see me in their excitement is a plus.
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

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    I don't want to drag the discussion into another direction, but I do have a question regarding safety gear. I was told when I worked at the police department if you are caught by OSHA at a traffic wreck scene without proper safety gear on you could be fined. Is this true? I did a quick Google search, but didn't immediately find anything specifically related to firemen wearing vests on the roadside.

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    This traffic safety vest has nothing to do with OSHA so that wouldn't have anything to do with it.

    If an OSHA compliance officer driving around town happens to notice someone doing something that blatantly violates a standing OSHA regulation, yes they can take enforcement action.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tree68 View Post
    If I can add a layer of protection, I will. We've had people (family members) bust through roadblocks to reach a scene. Anything that helps him/her see me in their excitement is a plus.
    I can respect that. We're more metro so PD is usually on scene when we get there or shortly after. Freeway stuff gets a lane or two shut down by Highway Patrol. If someone blows through that and hits you, well, your number was up vest or no vest. My opinion.
    IAFF

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    I can respect that. We're more metro so PD is usually on scene when we get there or shortly after. Freeway stuff gets a lane or two shut down by Highway Patrol. If someone blows through that and hits you, well, your number was up vest or no vest. My opinion.
    I agree with you, but since the Boss man says wear them, we wear them.

    On a more personal note, I don't believe for one minute that if the dumb s.o.b. cant see the damn fire truck(s) with all the lights and stripes, then they are not going to see me in my traffic vest.

    We joke that if nothing else if and when we get ran over, if its dark, at the least the vest will make locating and recovering the body easier!
    Stay Safe
    Bull


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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Excuses...just put the thing on. The rest of us don't have any problems getting them on and off...wear it and give the public one more way to see you.



    Are you serious? We've got members of our department that have been in litigation for years having their cancer benefits denied - and we were one of the original presumption states.
    That's your opinion. That isn't how we do it out here.

    I work in the state where the first cancer presumption law was created. All cancer claims are initially denied regardless. I am a two time cancer survivor with history fighting California's cancer presumption laws. What else would you like to disagree with me on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKDRAFT View Post
    That's your opinion. That isn't how we do it out here.

    I work in the state where the first cancer presumption law was created. All cancer claims are initially denied regardless. I am a two time cancer survivor with history fighting California's cancer presumption laws. What else would you like to disagree with me on?
    Bull. Please don't degrade other cancer patients, victims, and survivors by throwing that out there like some card you can play when it has absolutely nothing to do with this AT ALL. It's insulting and you look like a complete ***. Loser.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Just for a minute, I thought you were talking to me. Never mind carry on.
    Stay Safe
    Bull


    “Guys if you get hurt, we’ll help you. If you get sick we’ll treat you. If you want to bitch and moan, then all I can tell you is to flick the sand out of your slit, suck it up or get the hell out!”
    - Capt. Marc Cox CFD

    Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.
    -WINSTON CHURCHILL

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    Bull. Please don't degrade other cancer patients, victims, and survivors by throwing that out there like some card you can play when it has absolutely nothing to do with this AT ALL. It's insulting and you look like a complete ***. Loser.
    Actually brother, he's telling the truth. No BS.
    IAFF

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firehouse_Chick View Post
    Btw, I know many will continue to reference my thread with fyred. I was abrasive. That's how I am. Please know, I'm not as bad as you think. In that thread, Fyred made a comment out of a moment of frustration. It was poor taste and I recognized he would prob regret it, so I deleted it. I don't wish grief on anyone and instinctively felt bad for him although the comment was insulting.

    I am immature. When faced with his disagreement, my FDNY comment to him was akin to; "my dad can beat up your dad".

    Fyred, thanks for your guidance. I'm used to an environment of verbal beatings and will never shy away from criticism.

    Jonnee, you didn't read my post you quoted. I didn't state an opinions, I presented the info I knew of and asked for opinions.
    NO,you're another YOUNG one that should do a WHOLE LOT LESS talking and MORE listening. What YOU KNOW about Fire/emergencies you could put in a thimble and an ant couldn't take a bath. Don't know who your Brother is but he's either giving you BAD information OR YOU are not LISTENING,hard to tell from here. T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 12-20-2010 at 09:32 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tree68 View Post
    If I can add a layer of protection, I will. We've had people (family members) bust through roadblocks to reach a scene. Anything that helps him/her see me in their excitement is a plus.
    They "bust" thru a line here,they WILL be in the back of a cruiser,cut and dried. ZERO tolerance for people entering the action zone that aren't Responders. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    NO,you're another YOUNG one that should do a WHOLE LOT LESS talking and MORE listening.
    That is why I am asking questions (this thread).


    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    What YOU KNOW about Fire/emergencies you could put in a thimble and an ant couldn't take a bath.
    I know. It's obvious... I'm only 15. I ate humble pie many posts ago and am asking questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Don't know who your Brother is but he's either giving you BAD information OR YOU are not LISTENING,hard to tell from here. T.C.
    One thing's for sure, when I have repeated things I've learned from my brother, it's near verbatim (not the midwest bash, that was me. Although my grandfather and old ff's from the SOC's in Brooklyn used to say that kind of stuff. but it was usually said regarding just about everybody but their dept. of course, I don't really believe that and I know my brother and his brothers don't).

    My bro's single company goes to more OSW's (occupied structures) than a lot of cities do in a year...or more. He's my hero. What he believes in is not uncommon as can be seen on NYCfirenet or the rant. The safety sally comment is consistent as well as the smooth bore comment.

    Rescue101, any opinion on vests?

    Btw, I really don't want to get off topic Rescue101, but I must mention our trip to Maine last year. we went up to Maine a few yrs ago to Naples, on that big lake there that crosses under a highway. Also went to Poland Maine to visit the operation. I believe those towns aren't too far from you because we went to a Dunkin Donuts which I believe is in your town. After staying in a rent for the weekend cottage on Sebago, we also went to Windham on that busy commercial strip in the middle of what seems to be the country, Moosehead, Kittery Outlets, a big huge bridge off of Portsmouth that goes to Kittery (Piscat something) saw a bunch of neat draw bridges lined up near that bridge. We crossed into Canada in downeast Maine, in I think vassle or vance something, i got that confused, because the GPS said it was quicker to get to Holton that way. I also saw some interesting windmills on a mountain in a town called Mars Hill, that was way way up near canada...it took us a few days to see everything. The cell phone service switched to a canadian svc in that area. we couldn't believe our cell svc was Rogiers or Rogers or something like that. Also, I couldn't believe when we were headed upstate that a few towns are named by crazy numbers like T9384 or something. BIG, BIG state.

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    We try to keep everyone in a vest unless fighting fire, even during extrication. With that said, if you are actually cutting or working on a vehicle and not wearing a vest nothing will be said, but if you are up on the road you will get a talking to back at the station. I usually keep my vest on my coat when working rescue and I can take it off really fast if need be.

    As for the fire truck excuse, my concern is yes they can see the lights and BRT but if they are paying more attention to the BRT they may miss the firefighter standing next to it.

    Bottom line is your own safety comes first and if you feel safer wearing it then do, next if it is required cover yourself and wear it, if you are fine without it and not required then by all means have at it, but I try to wear it.

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    DOT regulations now require OSHA approved vests for any response that involves a roadway. Anyone working on or near a roadway during a call is required to have a vest. I'll see if I can find the actual law. DOT is supposed to enforce it and responders can be personally fined, but I'm not 100% sure on the amount.

    So the answer AGAIN is - Safety First.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKDRAFT View Post
    I am a two time cancer survivor with history fighting California's cancer presumption laws. What else would you like to disagree with me on?
    No need for jackassery. My point was that for you to blatantly state that no FF has been denied benefits for not wearing SCBA is pretty presumptuous. If you have proof of this, I'll gladly eat crow. Until then, wear your mask and your vest...small inconveniences for the protection they offer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BULL321 View Post
    It's Not a State Law here in N.C. but. . . . . . . AND this is the way that it was presented to me and my Fire Dept. If you are operating on a federally funded Rd/hwy/interstate, you must wear a vest. The exceptions to the rule are as follows. If there is a fire or chance of a fire the FFs operating in the hot zone are not required to wear a vest. If the road is shut down only the flagmen at either end of the scene are the only ones required to wear a vest. As it applies to LEOs If I'm making a vehicle stop, I don't have to wear my reflective vest. If I am taking any type of law enforcement action, I don't have to wear my vest. (officer safety issue) But if I'm at work at the Sheriff's Office or at on a call for the Fire Dept. and on a road that receives Federal money then you have to wear a vest. That goes for everyone, EMS Rescue Squad, FF, LEOs, Wrecker Drivers, Dot workers whoever.

    Since sometimes its hard to tell what roads receive fed funds, and it makes good sense our SOG's state that we wear our traffic vest at all incidents that occur on the roadway. The only exceptions are the ones listed above.
    HAHA, I knew I had it twisted a little, I'm still new to the rules and laws here. Thank you brother.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BW21 View Post
    Personally....

    If the people on the road driving don't see a giant fire engine with its lights on they probably won't see a vest.
    Anyways....
    The general rule on them is wear them anytime you're working in the road unless doing extrication and its getting in the way or doing any fire suppression... So I'm going to keep wearing mine
    The problem as I see it would be they DO SEE the BRT, and they keep looking at it, without the vest on I might as well be wearing camoflage. The day glow and reflective tape gets there attention to the fact that there were humans that stepped off the BRT and that the BRT does not do the work by itself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    They "bust" thru a line here,they WILL be in the back of a cruiser,cut and dried. ZERO tolerance for people entering the action zone that aren't Responders. T.C.
    As I recall, they were. But before entering the cruiser, they damaged a FF's vehicle and put several people in danger...
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firehouse_Chick View Post
    That is why I am asking questions (this thread).



    I know. It's obvious... I'm only 15. I ate humble pie many posts ago and am asking questions.



    One thing's for sure, when I have repeated things I've learned from my brother, it's near verbatim (not the midwest bash, that was me. Although my grandfather and old ff's from the SOC's in Brooklyn used to say that kind of stuff. but it was usually said regarding just about everybody but their dept. of course, I don't really believe that and I know my brother and his brothers don't).

    My bro's single company goes to more OSW's (occupied structures) than a lot of cities do in a year...or more. He's my hero. What he believes in is not uncommon as can be seen on NYCfirenet or the rant. The safety sally comment is consistent as well as the smooth bore comment.

    Rescue101, any opinion on vests?

    Btw, I really don't want to get off topic Rescue101, but I must mention our trip to Maine last year. we went up to Maine a few yrs ago to Naples, on that big lake there that crosses under a highway. Also went to Poland Maine to visit the operation. I believe those towns aren't too far from you because we went to a Dunkin Donuts which I believe is in your town. After staying in a rent for the weekend cottage on Sebago, we also went to Windham on that busy commercial strip in the middle of what seems to be the country, Moosehead, Kittery Outlets, a big huge bridge off of Portsmouth that goes to Kittery (Piscat something) saw a bunch of neat draw bridges lined up near that bridge. We crossed into Canada in downeast Maine, in I think vassle or vance something, i got that confused, because the GPS said it was quicker to get to Holton that way. I also saw some interesting windmills on a mountain in a town called Mars Hill, that was way way up near canada...it took us a few days to see everything. The cell phone service switched to a canadian svc in that area. we couldn't believe our cell svc was Rogiers or Rogers or something like that. Also, I couldn't believe when we were headed upstate that a few towns are named by crazy numbers like T9384 or something. BIG, BIG state.
    Opinons on vests: We are REQUIRED to wear them.That being said,I've worked in and on the highways of this State for OVER thirty five years WITHOUT the damn things. Vehicle placement and situational awareness will do more to keep you alive than cones and vests. Yes,I think vests are a GOOD idea but the average person who is gonna get you is usually impaired and the vest doesn't do a lick of good there. T.C.

  24. #49
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    Do a search for "Hi Vis Vests" and you will see my .02

    I also posted the "Regulation on Use" and the "Regulation for Manufacturing" the Hi-Vis Vests in a post here.
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    When I first started out in the fire service, safety traffic vests didn't exist on the engine. It has only been recently that they are a required piece of equipment. They are mainly use on MVA's but if a driver doesn't see a big red fire engine with lights flashing, I highly doubt they will see me or my fellow fire fighters with a reflective vest. But we wear them none the less and hope that those who are out on the road, don't think we are targets of opportunity.

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