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  1. #26
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    This entire thread is predicated on one giant lie.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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    Man, I take a week off and the pups take over? Where'd I leave that rolled up newspaper.....
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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtg55 View Post
    Man, I take a week off and the pups take over? Where'd I leave that rolled up newspaper.....
    A week off?

    Sheesh, are they going soft at the salt mines?

    Hope you were somewhere warm.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    A week off?

    Sheesh, are they going soft at the salt mines?

    Hope you were somewhere warm.
    Hahaha, nah. Workin on the house. I WAS on your side of the border yesterday, the guards musta been sleepin
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtg55 View Post
    Hahaha, nah. Workin on the house. I WAS on your side of the border yesterday, the guards musta been sleepin
    Probably just drunk.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firehouse_Chick View Post
    But my questions are not about me, they're regarding the stated topic.
    Any other opinions, everyone has been helpful. Thanks, so far I'm learning a lot!
    I now officially declare you full of crap!

    There is no way that you are a 15 year old child. You known just to much about the subject matter that you "just asking questions about" because you are trying to learn. You are a TROLL!

    Who knew that Crowbar was a cross dressing pedofile?
    Stay Safe
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    We have a winner!

    Time for this person to come clean!

    Bull, are you a detective??
    No I'm just a straight leg Patrol Sgt. but my wife is!
    Stay Safe
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    “Guys if you get hurt, we’ll help you. If you get sick we’ll treat you. If you want to bitch and moan, then all I can tell you is to flick the sand out of your slit, suck it up or get the hell out!”
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    This entire thread is predicated on one giant lie.
    I have to agree. I was holding out on the possibility that (s)he was just that clueless but the troll theory looks better and better with every new post.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    I have to agree. I was holding out on the possibility that (s)he was just that clueless but the troll theory looks better and better with every new post.
    Agreed. All in favor signify by saying "I"?
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firehouse_Chick View Post
    Thanks for all the thoughtful feedback.

    It's funny, regarding your comment on the pistol grip (which is what I believe you meant by suicide knob). My brother said these are largely useless. Sometimes for car fires or misc stuff they could be used, however, when attacking a building fire he's explained many times, not to hold the line by the pristol grip (his dept only has them for trash/car fires). He said this can be telling of someones experience or lack thereof.

    Bull crap. If the nozzle person knows how to PROPERLY use a pistol grip nozzle it is like any other tool useful for some instances.

    As he put it; when doing this, you're basically placing the knob under your armpit area and allowing the nozzle reaction to get the better of you. By holding it, you have to rotate your whole body around with the nozzle. Instead, he was taught to hold the nozzle well out in front of your body.

    It seems your brother was taught incorrectly how to use a psitol grip nozzle . The nozzle AND the pistol grip should be out in front of the body NOT under your arm pit. I ask my students how they would hold a pistol and that the nozzle should be extended similarly in front of them. So sorry, but on this one your brother couldn't be more wrong.

    He let me try this, it was amazing. It reduces the amount of work you have to exert and you won't be muscling the nozzle with your whole upper body.
    He showed the difference between holding the grip while flowing a 2.5 line and then putting the nozzle way out in front of you. I could actually hold the 2.5 by myself by putting it way out in front of me!

    A well trained, and skilled, nozzle person will not be hampered by a pistol grip nozzle and they will know when it is proper to use the pistol grip and when it is better to slide their hands back onto the hoseline to control it that way. A tool improperly operated by an untrained, or improperly trained user is not to blame for difficulties experienced by that user.

    I am going to call BS on you controlling a 2 1/2 inch line by yourself flowing anywhere near the standard FDNY flow of 263 gpm at 50 psi at the nozzle. You may have controlled a 2 1/2 inch line by yourself but I would bet it was underpumped to make it easier to handle.
    try and live a little bit in the real world. it is really kind of fun here.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 12-20-2010 at 05:13 PM.
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    Fyred,

    I made it clear that he said there are uses for it, as with car or trash fires or other misc things you could think of.

    It's true that you reduce your work and the effect of nozzle reaction by holding the nozzle out in front. But still insisting on holding the "grip" out in front of you? Still not enough leverage. Awkward and you're working against yourself. Why hold the grip? You're making it harder. Here's a well known guy from the Bronx and his brother from the Chicago area, they seem to agree with me.



    When you hold the grip in front of you, it's still not far enough in front of you to make a beneficial difference. lose the grip and you'll make it much easier for yourself.
    Last edited by Firehouse_Chick; 12-20-2010 at 05:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtg55 View Post
    Agreed. All in favor signify by saying "I"?
    I have been saying that it was a troll from day one.......
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firehouse_Chick View Post
    Fyred,



    When you hold the grip in front of you, it's still not far enough in front of you to make a beneficial difference. lose the grip and you'll make it much easier for yourself.
    ...sh*t storm in 3...2...1...

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firehouse_Chick View Post
    Fyred,

    I made it clear that he said there are uses for it, as with car or trash fires or other misc things you could think of.

    Frankly, how in the hell would you know? How many hallways have you crawled down filled with smoke, heat and flames? How many car fires have you actually attacked as a nozzle person? How many times have you ever even been on a hoseline on a working fire. Wait I already know the answer. If you are in fact a 15 yeqr old girl you haven't spent one second actually working as a firefighter. But more likely is you are nothing more than a lying troll.

    It's true that you reduce your work and the effect of nozzle reaction by holding the nozzle out in front. But still insisting on holding the "grip" out in front of you? Still not enough leverage. Awkward and you're working against yourself. Why hold the grip? You're making it harder. Here's a well known guy from the Bronx and his brother from the Chicago area, they seem to agree with me.

    Good for them, I know the guy on the FDNY. (Here's a news flash for you. He is originally from the Chicago area. Don't try and name drop with me little girl, or liar. You will lose.) Just because they say so doesn't mean they are right for anyone else but them.

    Again, maybe when you mature enough, or stop lying about who you really are you might realize how idiotic you sound spouting crap about how this works better, or that works better, or this FD is better, when you have no rel world experience of your own. Frankly, just because your brother fills your head with what he believes doesn't make it right.

    I have to ask can you read and comprehend English? I believe I said quite clearly that I use both techniques, using the pistol grip and holding the hose back from the nozzle if appropriate. Proper training allows for proper use of equipment.



    When you hold the grip in front of you, it's still not far enough in front of you to make a beneficial difference. lose the grip and you'll make it much easier for yourself.

    And you have no idea what you are talking about because you have never used a nozzle in actual fire attack. So your opinion is worthless.
    Troll or liar? Does it matter? Nope, because you are a loud mouthed know nothing.
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    For the record, a suicide knob, or roulette wheel is a gallonage selector ring on a selectable gallonage nozzle. So called because they are located directly behind the stream shaper, and it's extremely easy to change gpm settings when changing your stream pattern. They make a pump operator's life hell, because it's next to impossible to know what the nozzle is set at at any particular time, and thus to determine proper pump pressure.

    Akron Brass makes probably the most popular version. Many depts around me still had older versions rattling around when I first joined up. They drove me nuts... the flow selector could be found in ANY position, at any time- including flush. With gloves on,in the dark and smoke, it was extremely hard to avoid changing flow selections when you changed stream patterns.

    Basically, this ring does the same job the spring loaded plunger does on an automatic nozzle: turn it one way, and it pulls the stream deflector back, reducing your flow. Turn it the other way, and it pushes it out- opening up the nozzle to flow more water. Keep turning it to the flush setting, and it pulls the stream shaper back as well, to open it up wide to clear debris. Needless to say, the numbers printed on the ring are invisible in the smoke and dark... You can scream for more pressure all day, but if the selector is way down in low range, you won't be flowing much...

    There were even uber-old schoolers, permanently stuck in water conservation mode, who'd go through the trucks and make sure they were all set on their lowest setting- which was 25gpm, I believe. ( a co-worker of mine proudly told me of doing this. Thank god he belonged to a different dept!!!) If I wanted to attack a fire with a booster line, I'd grab that! I gave up trying to explain to this guy that flowing enough water to actually PUT THE FIRE OUT can save more water than peeing on it untill it burns itself down to 25 gpm size.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtg55 View Post
    Man, I take a week off and the pups take over? Where'd I leave that rolled up newspaper.....
    Hehe, I gave mine to COT last week while I was schoolin' our youngun's. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firehouse_Chick View Post
    Fyred,

    I made it clear that he said there are uses for it, as with car or trash fires or other misc things you could think of.

    It's true that you reduce your work and the effect of nozzle reaction by holding the nozzle out in front. But still insisting on holding the "grip" out in front of you? Still not enough leverage. Awkward and you're working against yourself. Why hold the grip? You're making it harder. Here's a well known guy from the Bronx and his brother from the Chicago area, they seem to agree with me.



    When you hold the grip in front of you, it's still not far enough in front of you to make a beneficial difference. lose the grip and you'll make it much easier for yourself.


    WRONG!.........AGAIN! A pistol grip is as versatile as the operator holding it. Most of our "small" lines have 'em and the personnel are trained from day one the various methods of holding and operating a handline. Just 'cause FDNY doesn't use them does NOT make them a BAD idea. FDNY doesn't haul much Di hydrogen Monoxide either but it is a NECESSITY up here in the North woods. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    WRONG!.........AGAIN! A pistol grip is as versatile as the operator holding it. Most of our "small" lines have 'em and the personnel are trained from day one the various methods of holding and operating a handline. Just 'cause FDNY doesn't use them does NOT make them a BAD idea. FDNY doesn't haul much Di hydrogen Monoxide either but it is a NECESSITY up here in the North woods. T.C.
    Rescue,

    You know what I'm getting at, I know you must. The pistol grip can have some uses, that is why I made sure to mention that in the first post on this particular topic.

    What about the video do you disagree with, it's precisely the general point I was making, save for a few exceptions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firehouse_Chick View Post
    Rescue,

    You know what I'm getting at, I know you must. The pistol grip can have some uses, that is why I made sure to mention that in the first post on this particular topic.

    What about the video do you disagree with, it's precisely the general point I was making, save for a few exceptions.
    All I KNOW is you have ZERO time in the "business". Now I have NO idea how you train folks where you come from but HERE we DO NOT use You tube videos. AND,as we HAVE used pistol grips for over 25 years,I feel qualified to address this issue. The pistol grip does NOT have SOME issues,with PROPER training it becomes second nature to use it. And it is VERY easy to use the hose(With a pistol grip) in a CONVENTIONAL(NON-pistol grip) manner if one so desires. So PERHAPS a little learning is in order here before you comment on something you know ABSOLUTELY nothing about. T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 12-20-2010 at 09:35 PM.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firehouse_Chick View Post
    Rescue,

    You know what I'm getting at, I know you must. The pistol grip can have some uses, that is why I made sure to mention that in the first post on this particular topic.

    What about the video do you disagree with, it's precisely the general point I was making, save for a few exceptions.
    If you are a 15 year old girl (which we all know you are not), how the F##$ would you know??
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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  21. #46
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    We put our thumb over the the end of the coupling.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    We put our thumb over the the end of the coupling.
    Now that's funny.
    Bring enough hose.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    Myths.

    Penetration/distance are essentially the same thing and the straight stream from a properly adjusted adjustable is only marginally less effective than a comparable solid stream from a smoothbore.

    As for GPM and pressure, just compare apples to apples instead of apples to oranges and choose the right nozzle for the job.
    I think of penetration as power. The amount of force the water will hit something with. I have solid streams that have ripped through dry wall. Can't say that it has happened with a straight stream from a fog.

    Distance is how far the actual stream will go especially before it breaks over. A solid stream will achieve far greater distance and less affected by wind.

    Apples to apples oranges to oranges? How about pumping the same 1.75" line. One with a fog and one with a smooth bore. You will get more more gpm from a smooth bore at a lower PDP.

    I'm not making this up. It isn't hype. Go do it for yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKDRAFT View Post
    I think of penetration as power. The amount of force the water will hit something with. I have solid streams that have ripped through dry wall. Can't say that it has happened with a straight stream from a fog.

    Okay, why would you need to do that?

    Distance is how far the actual stream will go especially before it breaks over. A solid stream will achieve far greater distance and less affected by wind.

    Not if the combo stream is a low pressure stream. The droplet size is larger and very similar to the stream from a smoothbore. The truth is a 75 psi combo nozzle flowing the same gpm as a 50 psi smoothbore will actually outreach the smoothbore with very little flyaway.

    Apples to apples oranges to oranges? How about pumping the same 1.75" line. One with a fog and one with a smooth bore. You will get more more gpm from a smooth bore at a lower PDP.

    Again, not true if you are using low pressure combo tips. Did you know low pressure combo tips can be had in 50 psi? The same pressure as a smooth bore. Same flow, same pressure, what a concept.

    I'm not making this up. It isn't hype. Go do it for yourself.

    I have, and that is how we ended up with the nozzle system we use today. The problem is it appears you only compared 100mpsi combo tips and ignored the low pressure nozzles that totally have changed the landscape.
    Perhaps you need to borrow some low pressure combo tips and run some ests for yourself. I bet your eyes will be opened.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKDRAFT View Post
    Can't say that it has happened with a straight stream from a fog.
    Then you haven't tried it with comparable flows.

    Distance is how far the actual stream will go especially before it breaks over. A solid stream will achieve far greater distance and less affected by wind.
    Greater, but not significantly greater. More to the point, aside from a surround and drown operation, when was the last time you used a smoothbore or straight stream so far from your objective that breakover distance was a significant factor? On an interior attack?

    Apples to apples oranges to oranges? How about pumping the same 1.75" line. One with a fog and one with a smooth bore. You will get more more gpm from a smooth bore at a lower PDP.
    Not with comparable nozzles. I can go downstairs to the engine right now and pump two nozzles on equal lengths of 1 3/4" line, one smoothbore and one combination on straight stream, wyed off of the same pump outlet and get roughly 185 gpm @ 50 psi off of each nozzle. The smoothbore will produce a calculated nozzle reaction of ~69 lbs while the fog nozzle will produce a calculated nozzle reaction of ~66 lbs. That small sacrifice in stream force is a small price to pay for versatility in my book.

    I'm not making this up. It isn't hype. Go do it for yourself.
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