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  1. #61
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    First of all.. all this whining about nozzles.... oy vey!
    A nozzle is another tool in the toolbox... nothing more. nothing less.

    You give a garden hose nozzle to a crusty old jake and he can probably put out the damn fire with it.

    You have 2/20 and whiz kids with certifications up the wazoo who could not put out a trashcan fire if they threw the damn thing into a lake.

    Dumpster fires, car fires.. deck gun the damn things, check for bodies, refill the tank and go back to quarters!

    Everyone is bitching about the type of nozzle... how about the size of the damn line it is attached to?"
    Last edited by DeputyChiefGonzo; 12-21-2010 at 05:10 PM.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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  2. #62
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    Just for clarification, lets hear the purported benefits of the fog over the smoothbore. Even if flow, distance and penetration are equal, the simplicity of the smoothbore makes it far more reliable and far cheaper when replacing or buying new. And yes, I have had a fog nozzle not work properly during an incident and seen the same numerous times at fires and training.

  3. #63
    Forum Member DeputyMarshal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKDRAFT View Post
    My argument from my first post has been the smooth bore flows more gpm at the same PDP.
    Which is demonstrably false.

    What's your next best argument?
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

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  4. #64
    Forum Member DeputyMarshal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKDRAFT View Post
    Why pick a smooth bore for only commercial fires?
    Because it's the only scenario where you typically find large enough interior spaces/compartments for selecting a smoothbore to make any sense.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

  5. #65
    Forum Member DeputyMarshal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    the simplicity of the smoothbore makes it...
    ...easier for firefighters who aren't competent enough to make decisions about what type of stream would be most effective in any given situation. :P

    And yes, I have had a fog nozzle not work properly during an incident and seen the same numerous times at fires and training.
    Honestly? That sounds like poor equipment maintenance to me.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

  6. #66
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    I would imagine dr rescue has been steamed 0 times as he said in another post that he was another wanna bee firefighter - I wonder id he is related to jr ?

  7. #67
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    Post Retard ALERT!

    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    I would imagine dr rescue has been steamed 0 times as he said in another post that he was another wanna bee firefighter - I wonder id he is related to jr ?
    Where is that post? After checking out his posts using the SEARCH button, I saw none of what you just said, LIAR.
    I have heard of people getting steamed on accident by not checking their combination nozzle settings. Plus can't you read his signature? He is on a Rescue Squad (whatever the heck that is).
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  8. #68
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Deputy, your blanket statement about smoothbore use in commercial areas is nullified by those firefighters that successfully use them in residential occupancies on a daily basis - arguably with no difference in performance or knock-down times.

    As for the failure and/or performance issues with the fog nozzles, we've encountered the same thing at work. We've got about 75 fogs (all from the same respected manufacturer) and we're finding fluctuations of up to 100psi between the nozzles, and we do have a preventive maintenance program for them. We also have an intradepartmental nozzle shop whose members have received training from the factory on maintenance and repair. Could it be a bad batch of nozzles, springs, a design flaw? We're researching that now.
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  9. #69
    MembersZone Subscriber rpferry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREguy2011 View Post
    Where is that post? After checking out his posts using the SEARCH button, I saw none of what you just said, LIAR.
    I have heard of people getting steamed on accident by not checking their combination nozzle settings. Plus can't you read his signature? He is on a Rescue Squad (whatever the heck that is).
    That's the best thing I've read in a while. You made my night, thanks churro.
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  10. #70
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREguy2011 View Post
    He is on a Rescue Squad (whatever the heck that is).
    He's a member of a large volunteer EMS agency.
    Last edited by BoxAlarm187; 12-21-2010 at 05:59 PM.
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  11. #71
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    Default Speaking of Reatard Alert!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by FIREguy2011 View Post
    I have heard of people getting steamed on accident by not checking their combination nozzle settings.
    Yeah, that's why you check your nozzle pattern BEFORE you enter the structure, duh!

  12. #72
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    ours was operator's error.
    Smooth bore is to put more volume of water in the stream to attack the fire. Commercial fires are probably the most common , but the straight stream does not have the volume to output a stable flow of water while the smooth bore does. It doesn't matter no way anyhow, as long as my crew and possible victims get out safe and the fire gets out, why does it matter?
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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREguy2011 View Post
    Plus can't you read his signature? He is on a Rescue Squad (whatever the heck that is).
    Hmmm, what could a rescue squad be, I'm thinking. Well for one, the heavy rescue at Dalton Fire Dept is called Squad 1, so perhaps their rescue company is what they call a squad.

  14. #74
    Forum Member mtg55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    First of all.. all this whining about nozzles.... oy vey!
    A nozzle is another tool in the toolbox... nothing more. nothing less.

    You give a garden hose nozzle to a crusty old jake and he can probably put out the damn fire with it.

    You have 2/20 and whiz kids with certifications up the wazoo who could not put out a trashcan fire if they threw the damn thing into a lake.

    Dumpster fires, car fires.. deck gun the damn things, check for bodies, refill the tank and go back to quarters!

    Everyone is bitching about the type of nozzle... how about the size of the damn line it is attached to?"

    Chief, I'm with you. Man, how bout this weather?!
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  15. #75
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREguy2011 View Post
    ours was operator's error.
    Smooth bore is to put more volume of water in the stream to attack the fire. Commercial fires are probably the most common , but the straight stream does not have the volume to output a stable flow of water while the smooth bore does. It doesn't matter no way anyhow, as long as my crew and possible victims get out safe and the fire gets out, why does it matter?
    Pure Genius.99% of Steam burns(by nozzle)are. T.C.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Pure Genius.99% of Steam burns(by nozzle)are. T.C.
    HAHA, that's all I can really say to this, you nailed it man.

  17. #77
    Forum Member DeputyMarshal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Deputy, your blanket statement about smoothbore use in commercial areas is nullified by those firefighters that successfully use them in residential occupancies on a daily basis - arguably with no difference in performance or knock-down times.
    Erm... How do you see that "nullifying" anything?

    The fact that fires eventually get put out doesn't imply that the choice of nozzle is necessarily the most prudent -- just that it was adequate.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

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  18. #78
    Forum Member DeputyMarshal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREguy2011 View Post
    Smooth bore is to put more volume of water in the stream to attack the fire
    False. Comparable smoothbore and adjustable nozzles put comparable volumes of water into the fire.

    but the straight stream does not have the volume to output a stable flow of water while the smooth bore does
    Thats a phenominally ignorant statement. What weighs more, a pound of rocks or a pound of feathers? You can put out just as much volume with a straightstream as you can a smoothbore.

    why does it matter?
    At the very least it matters that the crew understands how nozzles work and use one or the other based on needs and condidtions and not on myths and old wives tales.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

  19. #79
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    Erm... How do you see that "nullifying" anything?

    The fact that fires eventually get put out doesn't imply that the choice of nozzle is necessarily the most prudent -- just that it was adequate.
    You stated that it only "made sense" to use a smoothbore on a commercial occupancy. And you must have missed the part where I said "with no difference in performance or knock-down times."...implying that a smoothbore can extinguish the same amount of fire as a fog in the same amount of time - not just that the smoothbore was adequate.
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  20. #80
    Forum Member DeputyMarshal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    You stated that it only "made sense" to use a smoothbore on a commercial occupancy
    And I stand by that for the reasons given.

    And you must have missed the part where I said "with no difference in performance or knock-down times
    Nope. You must have missed the part about


    "The fact that fires eventually get put out doesn't imply that the choice of nozzle is necessarily the most prudent -- just that it was adequate."

    Just because the fire went out doesn't mean it was the best choice of nozzle -- especially if, as you suggest, there was "no difference in performance or knock-down." Indeed, that assessment supports my argument: Adjustable nozzles can do everything smoothbore nozzles can do all the while providing options to do things that smoothbores can't do.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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