1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    If they get something tangible in exchange for service, they're technically not volunteers. The more tangible, the more clearly they stop being "volunteers." I know of very few departments that still have "volunteers" in the pure sense of the word.
    They are still "volunteer firefighters" by every definition and popular understanding of the term.

    You've gone off the tracks here.
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    We're really argueing about a few t-shirts, a ciffee cup and few bucks in reimbursement to compensate a member for gas, destroyed clothes and possibly some missed time from work is "pay", or compensation.

    Honestly?

    If it's not his/her full-time job, it's not his/her career, therefore he/she is volunteer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    We're really argueing about a few t-shirts, a ciffee cup and few bucks in reimbursement to compensate a member for gas, destroyed clothes and possibly some missed time from work is "pay", or compensation.

    Honestly?

    If it's not his/her full-time job, it's not his/her career, therefore he/she is volunteer.
    Are you allowed to drink ciffee while on duty??

    I've brewed coffee, beer and cider. I'll have to try this ciffee you speak of.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post

    If it's not his/her full-time job, it's not his/her career, therefore he/she is volunteer.
    Not true. A person can have a 'full time job/career' (job A) and a part time job (job B).

    They are not volunteering for job B.
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  5. #55
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    Look, when you guys get done beating this Horse, I'm looking for a new Tax Person, anyone want the Job??.........
    Wesley Snipes accountant is looking for work!
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    didnt read all of the thread, but we get 'paid' $2.30/hr for calls and FD sponsored trainings. for me, this covers my fuel to and from the station (with the mileage my truck gets, and the price of gas, its pretty on par), as well as any shirts i may purchase (with the FD logo), and anything else i have from that 'compensation' generally gets put towards something fire related.

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    My Volunteer Department, well I think it is considered volunteer, because no one gets paid to work a scheduled shift. We have an allowance program in place to reimburse members for out of pocket expenses that they incur while responding to calls, attending required trainings, provided inspections, fire prevention programs and all the other items that go into running an effective fire service. For members to get there allowance they have to meet a certain criteria. (% of calls, training hours, meeting and extra fire dept. activities). As much time that we put in, it is just like having a full time job. I guess that is why the true volunteer numbers are way down. Or maybe we are not volunteers. Iím confused.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peak85 View Post
    My Volunteer Department, well I think it is considered volunteer, because no one gets paid to work a scheduled shift. We have an allowance program in place to reimburse members for out of pocket expenses that they incur while responding to calls, attending required trainings, provided inspections, fire prevention programs and all the other items that go into running an effective fire service. For members to get there allowance they have to meet a certain criteria. (% of calls, training hours, meeting and extra fire dept. activities). As much time that we put in, it is just like having a full time job. I guess that is why the true volunteer numbers are way down. Or maybe we are not volunteers. Iím confused.
    You are volunteer.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Default Volunteer

    Our department is 100% volunteer. No one is compensated for making trainings, fire or ems calls. No one is reimbursed for expenses they incur in getting to or from a call or training.

    Now once a month pizza is delivered to the business meeting and water and soda are provided for after calls or for the guys that are working on the station or one of the trucks. There are some here that will consider the pizza, water and soda as compensation or even the Tshirt the guys are given but is supposed to be returned when they leave the department.

    Lets go so far as to say the bunker gear they wear is compensation, after all wearing it does benefit the member.

    My belief is there are three classifications;

    Career; you are paid to be at the station for your assigned shift
    Paid on Call; siomply put, you are getting paid for showing up
    Volunteer; you show up because you want to give back to the community, you are not there for the money. you are there to help, you are there for the brotherhood.

    I have always said if you want to pay me per call then pay me what I am worth for that call. Dont bother throwing $5 an hour at me for a call. If you are going to call me PAID then pay me the going rate that full time career firefighters get per hour.

    That is why I and my department are strictly volunteer. No pay per call, no clothing allowance, no reimbursements.

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    Ok - 20 plus years as a strictly "volunteer" - then the last ten as a POC - so that means I have lost my dedication to the community ? Dang - thanks for enlighting me.
    ?

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    Some good points to look at from Marshal but it all depends on what definition you are looking at as for a volunteer. I volunteer to go to a call when the pager goes off. There is no one standing over me saying when the pager goes off you have to go. There might be some sort of regulation on how many calls you have to make to stay on the department but I still volunteer to go to the calls I can. Unlike a career where when you are working and getting paid you HAVE to go on calls. I still think it is hard to consider getting a shirt that I am required to wear while at training or PF events as getting paid or not being a volunteer. Either way right or wrong good or bad my county considers me a volunteer firefighter and that is what I will say I am.

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    Our guys get $12 a year "pay", does that make them not volunteer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief2505 View Post
    Our department is 100% volunteer. No one is compensated for making trainings, fire or ems calls. No one is reimbursed for expenses they incur in getting to or from a call or training.

    Now once a month pizza is delivered to the business meeting and water and soda are provided for after calls or for the guys that are working on the station or one of the trucks. There are some here that will consider the pizza, water and soda as compensation or even the Tshirt the guys are given but is supposed to be returned when they leave the department.

    Lets go so far as to say the bunker gear they wear is compensation, after all wearing it does benefit the member.

    My belief is there are three classifications;

    Career; you are paid to be at the station for your assigned shift
    Paid on Call; siomply put, you are getting paid for showing up
    Volunteer; you show up because you want to give back to the community, you are not there for the money. you are there to help, you are there for the brotherhood.

    I have always said if you want to pay me per call then pay me what I am worth for that call. Dont bother throwing $5 an hour at me for a call. If you are going to call me PAID then pay me the going rate that full time career firefighters get per hour.

    That is why I and my department are strictly volunteer. No pay per call, no clothing allowance, no reimbursements.
    In my department, we receive LOSAP, Medical benefits through the town including a complete physical exam yearly, free rec passes, property tax breaks, a $200 tax credit by the state once per year. The state considers us to be volunteers since we do not receive a regular paycheck.
    "Did you check under the bed?" -- Judge Crater, 1930

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