1. #1
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    Default Real men can agree to disagree

    Over the last several months, the forums have gotten down right terrible. The prevailing threads are stupid helmet questions, topics being started by trolls to due nothing but antagonize others, or some Jackwagon's running a SPAM campaign. Not discussions, but arguements that seem to never stop.

    I get that we being firefighters are opinionated and enjoy stirring the pot. It's kinda different when your in the fire station and can see the reaction and everyone can then laugh and say, "yeah, you got me." Somehow that doesn't transcend on these forums.

    On this Christmas day, can we make some kind of concerted effort to stop being so damn stupid and use this place as a learning tool or aplace to help other firefighters with serious topics or dilema's.

    If things don't soon change, I for one,will be retiring from this board.

    Merry Christmas.
    Last edited by MemphisE34a; 12-25-2010 at 01:53 PM.
    RK
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    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    prepare to retire. It'll never work.

    Sucks too, theres so much knowledge here that I for one would love to tap into but its mainly old men bickering like little girls. I have so many questions to ask and would absolutely LOVE to get info out of these guys but you're judged the second you sign up.

    If everyone could just calm down and not try and run off at the mouth, they could give out a lot of information (that they claim to have) to these young guys just coming up. I can't seem them turning away the rookies at their department but they have no qualms about doing it here.

    The internet and its way of making small men feel bigger.....
    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

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    I agree. I believe that because two people are on opposite sides doesn't mean they're enemies.

    I would ask you edit your post. Your describor of spammers from an Asian nation is considered especially derogatory.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I would ask you edit your post. Your describor of spammers from an Asian nation is considered especially derogatory.
    Even when it is accurate?

    Either way, I changed it to a moniker from my favorite commercial. Reminds me of firehouse "therapy".
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    ****,****,***,****,*****,*******,*****,****!!!!!
    IAFF

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Even when it is accurate?

    Either way, I changed it to a moniker from my favorite commercial. Reminds me of firehouse "therapy".
    Yes, and thank you.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    TAJM611 - Being on the grouchy old guy side of the fence , I guess I dont really see the new guys getting blown off / dissed. What I am guilty of , and it is a pet peeve of mine , is people getting on here and asking for basic and or department specific info, that they should be getting first hand. Also , I may read too much into it, but I see lot of the questions that are tactical or strategic in nature and seem to be for "ammo" in pushing their agenda. Nothing wrong with a "thirst for knowledge" but a two year fireman should be still polishing (if not still learning) the basics. This board should be the gravy or maybe the desert --- not the meat and potatos. Or maybe a better analogy should be the paint and trim on a house - not the foundation or the framing. And then I see posts on this board by people that have worked less than a dozen fires repeating things that they have heard and treating them like gospel. A statement like smooth bore for commercial - fog for ordinary - so if I sell ebay from my single wide - smooth bore only?
    So at least from my point of view, I see way too much surface knowledge and a very thin foundation of the basics. A lot different than the way I was taught, it was master the basics (tasks) , and then as your are taught more advanced (tactics and eventually strategy) you will really understand why the captain did what he did.
    ?

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    I disagree! We can reach an agreement!

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    TAJM611 - Being on the grouchy old guy side of the fence , I guess I dont really see the new guys getting blown off / dissed. What I am guilty of , and it is a pet peeve of mine , is people getting on here and asking for basic and or department specific info, that they should be getting first hand.
    I personally think they do ask for the information from their FD first hand, do not like the answer then came here to seek validation of their point of view... and get ticked off when we agree with their FD's.



    Also , I may read too much into it, but I see lot of the questions that are tactical or strategic in nature and seem to be for "ammo" in pushing their agenda. Nothing wrong with a "thirst for knowledge" but a two year fireman should be still polishing (if not still learning) the basics.
    Bingo! Then there are some 20 and 30 + year firemen here who have just repeated their probie year 20 to 30 times, I would think that we can get their thumbs outta their bums and engage their brains for once...

    This board should be the gravy or maybe the desert --- not the meat and potatos. Or maybe a better analogy should be the paint and trim on a house - not the foundation or the framing.
    Right on....

    And then I see posts on this board by people that have worked less than a dozen fires repeating things that they have heard and treating them like gospel. A statement like smooth bore for commercial - fog for ordinary - so if I sell ebay from my single wide - smooth bore only?
    Even worse.. some actually believe that "Backdraft" was real!

    So at least from my point of view, I see way too much surface knowledge and a very thin foundation of the basics. A lot different than the way I was taught, it was master the basics (tasks) , and then as your are taught more advanced (tactics and eventually strategy) you will really understand why the captain did what he did.
    Slack... you're batting 1.000! Very well stated!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Even worse.. some actually believe that "Backdraft" was real!
    You mean you never had a day like that during your career? We had them all the time in my dept.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Please tell me DC Gonzo your kidding about "Backdraft". Next your going to tell me there's no Santa Claus. I have noticed everyone bickering about nothing and there are some who seem to enjoy it. I to am tired of it and will be more stand-offish in the future. There's enough going on in the world than listen to rookies yell at each other.
    Respectfully,
    Jay Dudley
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    I think some are coming here with a true thirst for knowledge because they are not getting any teaching or training from their own department. Be it lack of training program or low call volume.

    There are many that show up here to stir the pot and to get someone to agree with their train of thought. These are the ones that need to go away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    TAJM611 - Being on the grouchy old guy side of the fence , I guess I dont really see the new guys getting blown off / dissed. What I am guilty of , and it is a pet peeve of mine , is people getting on here and asking for basic and or department specific info, that they should be getting first hand. Also , I may read too much into it, but I see lot of the questions that are tactical or strategic in nature and seem to be for "ammo" in pushing their agenda. Nothing wrong with a "thirst for knowledge" but a two year fireman should be still polishing (if not still learning) the basics. This board should be the gravy or maybe the desert --- not the meat and potatos. Or maybe a better analogy should be the paint and trim on a house - not the foundation or the framing. And then I see posts on this board by people that have worked less than a dozen fires repeating things that they have heard and treating them like gospel. A statement like smooth bore for commercial - fog for ordinary - so if I sell ebay from my single wide - smooth bore only?
    So at least from my point of view, I see way too much surface knowledge and a very thin foundation of the basics. A lot different than the way I was taught, it was master the basics (tasks) , and then as your are taught more advanced (tactics and eventually strategy) you will really understand why the captain did what he did.

    Oh no, I've agreed many times over that my generation isn't the most eloquent or polite one. I am right behind anyone who would disregard the influx of lightbar and hand light questions the board gets on a daily basis. It's more of the "my department does it this way therefore all departments should do it this way and I do not care about anything else" way of thinking a lot of younger guys (including myself) have received when tactics or strategy have been brought up. I am in no way stereotyping everyone with considerable experience in that group because I have learned quite a bit from everyone, every mr wendt on a few occasions, but there is a clique of fellows who preach about their abundance of information yet seem to horde it behind an ******* exterior. The questions I have raised had been more along the lines of:

    1: this is what we did
    2: this is why we did it
    3: what are your normal procedures and why

    Using that method, I've brought things back to my crew and I am very thankful for my open minded men and willingness to use tactics that better our service. If you feel I've grouped all "older men" in the wrong category, I apologize. Just remember, for every 15 year old with a scanner, there's a 20 something wanting to learn more of the "art" of what we do.
    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Even worse.. some actually believe that "Backdraft" was real!
    You.. You mean to tell me.. that, that wasn't REAL?!?!?

    Dammit all...

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    611 heres some advise from personal experence ---- Do NOT call George Wendt ,---- Mr. Wendt on these forums - he took me to task pretty quick - best I remember , he said not to call him Mr. Wendt unless I was a 14 year old kid. Speaking of the gentleman , I havent seen any post from him even on the other site. I always admired his tendancy to speak his mind. "If you are reading this---- uhhhh --sir. I hope all is with you.
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    What I am guilty of , and it is a pet peeve of mine , is people getting on here and asking for basic and or department specific info, that they should be getting first hand.
    I don't agree.

    This is a place to learn and to speak to other firefighters. Many questions cannot be answered by calling Human Resources, and many of us don't have the opportunity to walk into the house we have questions of.

    Unless its some spammer posting the same questions of FDNY, I think if people ask questions about a department, especially if it is yours, you should help them out and give them the right answers. I see too many people saying "SEARCH" or "Call HR," when its someone who seems genuinely interested that wants to make the right choice in department.

    Other than that, I stay out of the BS threads with pot-stirring and bickering.

    Merry Christmas Brothers

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Even worse.. some actually believe that "Backdraft" was real!
    I now have nothing more to live for...

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedlocal
    Also , I may read too much into it, but I see lot of the questions that are tactical or strategic in nature and seem to be for "ammo" in pushing their agenda.
    Quote Originally Posted by tajm611 View Post
    The questions I have raised had been more along the lines of:

    1: this is what we did
    2: this is why we did it
    3: what are your normal procedures and why

    Using that method, I've brought things back to my crew and I am very thankful for my open minded men and willingness to use tactics that better our service. If you feel I've grouped all "older men" in the wrong category, I apologize. Just remember, for every 15 year old with a scanner, there's a 20 something wanting to learn more of the "art" of what we do.
    So here we have two people with opposite views of the same basic thing.

    If there's a problem here, it's that some folks assume they know why somebody posted a question. In this case, 611 states he takes what he learns back to his people, yet SJY might interpret the motive for asking the question a tad differently, and thus react in a negative manner.

    Sad though it is, not every fire department has a first class training program. All too many have no program at all. Knowledge that many of us take for granted doesn't exist for a lot of the members of those department.

    Not everyone is a fourth generation firefighter. They enter the fire service as blank slates. That "stupid" question about ladders/aerials/towers/platforms is genuine - the nearest such apparatus may be an hour or more away from their station and the exposure to them is zero, as is the knowledge of many of their colleagues.

    We do need to agree to disagree - I still think yellow fire trucks just need to spend more time in the sun to ripen - but we also need to take a deep breath and provide the same thing we tell these folks they should be getting from their own departments - friendly help. A simple answer to a simple question is often a "thread killer." Spending five pages arguing about why the OP shouldn't be asking the question in the first place just riles people up.

    Maybe we need a "sticky" on using search, so it's one of the first things newbies see - that seems to be a recurring theme as well.

    And don't feed the trolls.
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Even worse.. some actually believe that "Backdraft" was real!
    I can't count the number of times I've pulled hose out of the stretch bed and had women's undergarments come out with it.
    Last edited by TVFR9923; 12-25-2010 at 11:48 PM. Reason: Too much egg nog

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    Default Backdraft

    I worked at Engine #17 Long Beach when the premier of "Backdraft"was there and we parked our Engine outside to show those who wanted a tour of it. (It was a pure PR job ). They mostly said they wanted to see the hose bed.......go figure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pvfd27 View Post
    I now have nothing more to live for...
    There's still the Towering Inferno and Ladder 49 to cling to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    There's still the Towering Inferno and Ladder 49 to cling to.
    Thanks man, you're a life-saver!!

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    Towering Inferno was GREAT. But back to the original post.

    No one and I mean no one wants to put a post on this board and have someone bash them, or a link they put up or a video they put up or whatever. People share their ideas and when they get bashed, they take it personally.
    Maybe you wear pink helmets or maybe you are a volly that wants his/her POV decorated in the most elaborate lightbar known to man. That's fine, as long as it conforms to his/her chief's expectations that's all they care about.
    If your chief says no light bars, then guess what? No lightbars. Go to a different company . If you think an attack line neds to be pulled on every assignment and you post it, be preparred for a difference of opinion.
    If I post that all Firetrucks should be red, then I should be prepared for others to voice their opinion, even if it disagrees with mine. Just keep it civil.

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    Some day I hope to see civilized discussions on here, but till then I guess I'll enjoy the entertainment. Seriously though when somebody asks a question, just a simple answer should suffice and it shouldn't end up degrade in a name calling or bashing simply because somebody has a difference of opinion. Oh well I said my peace.

  25. #25
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    Post Well.............

    You folks are simply Too Thin Skinned. REAL Firetrucks are YELLOW! Admit it, and get on with life...........




















    Seriously, I agree that there is wayyyyyy too much bickering. I'm an Old Guy, and Danm proud of it. The often abused "Search Function" Comments are sometimes overdone, or slanted. If someone says "I tried" I'll take that at face value and try to help a bit, if it's something that I have knowledge of. My Pet Peeve, as some have noticed, is Lack of, if not deliberate misuse of, Common Skills in the use of the English Language. I particularly dislike "Textspeak".... There ought to be a law...... But, when all is said and done, I try to help where possible. If I find it necessary (in my opinion) I can chastize a bit,, but I try to stay out of those threads anyway........
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
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