1. #1
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    Default An honor for someone who doesn't deserve it, in my opinon. What's your thoughts?

    At my department's monthly meeting, it was decided to give a former department member the distinction of 'honorary firefighter'. We will call this guy 'Capt. Chris.' Honorary firefighter is a little 'Thank you' given to members who have given time, effort, and served with distinction within the department. I voted against Capt. Chris getting the honor, as did three other individuals, but majority ruled. I plan to re-open this issue when we have our January meeting, when asked if anyone wants to address the 'old minutes'/old business, as I feel Capt. Chris is not worthy of being called 'honorary firefighter.'

    Here's my issue with this 'honor': Capt. Chris was with the deparment for quite sometime. 10+ years, if I recall. He was a captain when he was fired for his behavior. Capt. Chris was one of a handful of members who didn't agree with the way the department was being run, would run his mouth in public, but wouldn't approach chief about the issues, and on a few occasions lost his cool on scenes. At one incident, Capt. Chris was running ems at a fire scene and decided to start telling the firefighters what they should be doing He was also quoted in a newspaper article while still in the position of an officer, openly attacking cheif. a little history lesson...our chief has been with our dept. for three years. He is our first full-time chief. There is a small group of detractors that had created a huge amount of problems because they didn't agree with some of the changes he brought about. A mediator ws brought in, a study was done, and in an open city board meeting, it was decided unanimously that the chief's contract would be renewed. Capt. Chris stated in a local newspaper "im dissappointed that the chief's contract was renewed but I plan to stay on the department and do everything I can to make sure he gets removed." yeah..real bright, in my opinion. It should be noted, Capt. Chris applied for the chief's position, but obviously didn't get hired. His behavior continued on a downward slide. Capt. Chris opened his mouth about me, which I took issue with him face to face, and figured we were good, after that. In the end, our trustees sat him down, had enough of his behavior and the fact that he had not made his % of calls and fired him. A few months later, 'capt. chris' sent an email out to everyone on the dept. 'thanking' the chief for not showing up ("no call, no show") at a safety related event hosted by his employer, where the dept. was committed to bringins our ladder truck. He basically ripped the chief again in print. Funny thing was, i organized the event, not chief, and because the employee at Capt. Chris' employer didn't inform me that she was no longer at a particular office and number, I wasn't able to contact her to let her know we didn't have a big enough crew or drivers to get the ladder truck to the event. I again spoke to Capt. Chris face to face at an EMS meeting, away from everyone with a non-fire dept. witness present about his email to everyone. He completely lost it! The tone of the conversation esculated, he stormed out of the garage, stopped by chief (who also runs ems calls) and verbally attacked him in front of EVERYONE..dropped an 'F-Bomb' and everything..before storming out of the ems station.

    SO...I personally think that because Capt. Chris was a.) fired and b.) because his behavior isn't exactly what I call 'honorable', he shouldn't be recieving the title of 'honorary fireman.' In my opinion, it really 'dilutes' or diminishes the achievements of all the others that have earned the title of 'honorary firefighter.' The other thing that bothers me is prior to me addressing the email Capt. Chris sent out to everyone, another firefighter spoke out against the behavior of Capt. Chris. YET that same firefighter voted for Capt. Chris to be an 'Honorary Firefighter.' I plan on looking at our bi-laws, and also, because it was decided in December of 2008 to use 'better business practices' to run the dept., look at that model to try and block him from getting this honor.

    The way I see it, if someone was fired..especially if they didn't conduct themselves properly, why would you honor them? It makes no sense. What does everyone think? Thanks for your time.
    Last edited by Breech31; 12-27-2010 at 10:26 PM. Reason: el nino'
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    If it's just a "thank you" as you described, who cares? Majority rules and you're obvioulsy in the minority.

    Let it go. Your attitude about this just comes across as sour grapes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    If it's just a "thank you" as you described, who cares? Majority rules and you're obvioulsy in the minority.

    Let it go. Your attitude about this just comes across as sour grapes.
    I agree. Let it go. If it was passed, then you have no recourse even to bring it back to the table next month!
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

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    We're just getting one side of the story so judgement from here is impossible. The majority voted yea. If you push the issue now your stirring the pot and your a minority. Obviosly those who see it your way and voted the other won't be there to back you. Let it go.

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    Turn the page and let it go......
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    In the time you likely spent typing that book you could have practiced tying a dozen knots, worked on your turnout donning speed, swept the floor at the firehouse etc...

    This is not your first long-winded post complaining about your dept. Spend your fire dept related time becoming a better firefighter, not bashing your dept and playing politics. Don't sweat the stuff you have no control over. People will then take you more seriously.

    Also, try to make your point in a few small paragraphs.

    Example...

    Mickey Mouse was made honerary chief of the Dinseyland Fire Dept.

    He's not qualified but Goofy is.

    What should I do???
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    Why do people come on here and give very little information about a fire company problem and seek advice??

    Seriously, do you really expect to get a qualified answer?
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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    I agree, let it go. He served 10 plus years. In my department, that's grounds for recognition and a similar title if you leave.

    Over the years in my department I've seen guys removed for less and also for a lot more than what you described. We still recognized them, even though the majority of the membership would agree they didn't really deserve it based on their actions at the end. But as I said, we still recognized them.

    Keep in mind, for over 10+ years, he still gave of his time to the community and the department, whether you agreed with him all the time or not. Take the time to let him have his final moment and be recognized for the good he did do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blulakr View Post
    In the time you likely spent typing that book you could have practiced tying a dozen knots, worked on your turnout donning speed, swept the floor at the firehouse etc...

    This is not your first long-winded post complaining about your dept. Spend your fire dept related time becoming a better firefighter, not bashing your dept and playing politics. Don't sweat the stuff you have no control over. People will then take you more seriously.

    Also, try to make your point in a few small paragraphs.

    Example...

    Mickey Mouse was made honerary chief of the Dinseyland Fire Dept.

    He's not qualified but Goofy is.

    What should I do???
    Blulkr, thanks for your reply. I don't see where i've been "long winded" or "complained" or "bashed my dept."...ever. Also, if my post is too long for you to read, might I suggest you stop reading and move along to another topic? Regarding " Don't sweat the stuff you have no control over. People will then take you more seriously," I would beg to differ with you in the matter of people taking me more seriously. If I don't agree with something, I don't roll over and make like a dead fish. Being on the 'honorary firefighter' plaque and being firefighter in general means something. I dont' think it's something that should just be given out as some sort of parting gift. Him being put on that board makes everything everyone else did on that board less significant. If he gets put on it, then "Hell, anyone can be an honorary firefighter."
    "If the ladder goes up, the building goes down."

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    Quote Originally Posted by WBFD25 View Post
    I agree, let it go. He served 10 plus years. In my department, that's grounds for recognition and a similar title if you leave.

    Over the years in my department I've seen guys removed for less and also for a lot more than what you described. We still recognized them, even though the majority of the membership would agree they didn't really deserve it based on their actions at the end. But as I said, we still recognized them.

    Keep in mind, for over 10+ years, he still gave of his time to the community and the department, whether you agreed with him all the time or not. Take the time to let him have his final moment and be recognized for the good he did do.
    WBFD, Thanks for your valid and 'palatable' response.
    "If the ladder goes up, the building goes down."

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    Breech,

    Here is my question... Has his attitude been this bad all 10+ years he has been on the department and has he just recently failed to meet his % of calls obligation?

    If those actions are a recent problem (just the last 2 years or so) he probably is deserving of the "recognition". I understand your frustration we just recently put a guy on our "Executive Fireman" list after his 25 years of service but in my opinion only his first 5 years of that were useful. But, you have to respect all the other years guys put in. Sometimes, people get burnt out, fed up with change or things not going the way they want it to. Several times, instead of removing themselves from the situation or living with it they tend to make everyone else's lives hell until they are forced to leave. It's sad but that is the way some people are.

    Just my two cents...

    For the record...

    In the time you likely spent typing that book you could have practiced tying a dozen knots, worked on your turnout donning speed, swept the floor at the firehouse etc...

    This is not your first long-winded post complaining about your dept. Spend your fire dept related time becoming a better firefighter, not bashing your dept and playing politics. Don't sweat the stuff you have no control over. People will then take you more seriously.

    Also, try to make your point in a few small paragraphs.

    Example...

    Mickey Mouse was made honerary chief of the Dinseyland Fire Dept.

    He's not qualified but Goofy is.

    What should I do???
    that wasn't that hard to give this guy my honest answer instead of belittling his question!

    Stay Safe!

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    Quote Originally Posted by GVFD5 View Post
    Breech,

    Here is my question... Has his attitude been this bad all 10+ years he has been on the department and has he just recently failed to meet his % of calls obligation?

    If those actions are a recent problem (just the last 2 years or so) he probably is deserving of the "recognition". I understand your frustration we just recently put a guy on our "Executive Fireman" list after his 25 years of service but in my opinion only his first 5 years of that were useful. But, you have to respect all the other years guys put in. Sometimes, people get burnt out, fed up with change or things not going the way they want it to. Several times, instead of removing themselves from the situation or living with it they tend to make everyone else's lives hell until they are forced to leave. It's sad but that is the way some people are.

    Just my two cents...

    For the record...



    that wasn't that hard to give this guy my honest answer instead of belittling his question!

    Stay Safe!

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    yes just think about what this guy did in the past, maybe the chief ruined his career back in the day. You never know, he might have saved 100 people responding POV when no one else was available.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breech31 View Post
    Blulkr, thanks for your reply. I don't see where i've been "long winded" or "complained" or "bashed my dept."...ever. Also, if my post is too long for you to read, might I suggest you stop reading and move along to another topic? Regarding " Don't sweat the stuff you have no control over. People will then take you more seriously," I would beg to differ with you in the matter of people taking me more seriously. If I don't agree with something, I don't roll over and make like a dead fish. Being on the 'honorary firefighter' plaque and being firefighter in general means something. I dont' think it's something that should just be given out as some sort of parting gift. Him being put on that board makes everything everyone else did on that board less significant. If he gets put on it, then "Hell, anyone can be an honorary firefighter."
    By 'long winded' I mean your post was much more detailed and longer than it needed to be. Plus, it's difficult to read when it's all one paragraph. I'm sure many others "moved on" as you say and didn't bother to read your post. Is that what you want??

    You certainly were complaining.

    If you don't agree with something that's fine. Voice your opinion to whom it matters. I'm not saying that you should roll over. But you need to choose your battles. If, as in this case, you are not likely to be able to change the outcome then move on. "Don't sweat the stuff you have no control over"
    As other posts indicate, you appear to be "stirring the pot" and have "sour grapes". Not my words but I agree. Not the way to act if you want to be taken seriously.

    You asked for our opinions, not confirmation.
    Last edited by Blulakr; 12-28-2010 at 08:54 PM.
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    How is a volunteer "fired"?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    How is a volunteer "fired"?
    By being "involuntarily terminated." Thrown out of the department.

    Granted, fired usually refers to being let go from a paid position, but the principle is the same. They don't want to leave (and give up that jacket) but they are being shown the door.
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

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    Seriously, let it go man. I was on a small town volunteer department in north Georgia before I got hired on with Dalton several years ago. The mayor was the chief and all the captains were city counsel members. Anyway, half the department voted for a new mayor and the other half and all the captains voted for the existing mayor/chief. Anyway, words were said, no one would let it go and the department split right in half. I left, it was not a safe position to be in. Again, let it go, get over it, what ever. You don't want to be "that guy", the one everyone black balls because you wanted to make a big deal out of something that they obviously want. But hey, if you want to persist, then be happy to lay in the bed you make doing it. If you post what happens on here and it's a boohoo story you're gonna get a bunch of "I told you so's!"

    Let it go man.

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    Sigh...................Not your fight now and probably not the best forum to air these differences.
    A coward stands by and watches wrongs committed without saying a word...Any opinions expressed are purely my own and not necessarily reflective of the views of my former departments

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