1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnee View Post
    On the OP's post No. 14 - I call BS!!

    As John from VA Beach has answered each every statement this junior has said.

    Look at the OP's profile. It says "in between departments" and he is a insurance salesman for state farm.

    In previous postings in hiring, volunteer and other threads, he us looking for a Volley Department to join. Several folks gave him a couple down and around where is indicates when he is located.

    Has he tried out for them? I don't know. Most of those Chief of Departments around that area, are associates and friends of mine.

    So I ask, are you even associated with a fire department?
    He was a junior with our department for about a year and a half. A few months before he relocated he turned 18 and became a probationary firefighter.

    He had completed his junior checklist, which is similar to the standard firefighter checklist with the exception of live burn time. He had completed some live burn time on the firefighter checklist before leaving.
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    Ok, here we go again ........

    Ok, not a big deal. However, it was BREAKFAST. I can not think of any officer I've ever worked with who got to work, and left anytime before 11am to get BREAKFAST. Left at 11 to go to the store as a unit to pick up what would be for dinner, but prior to 11 its Station duties/clean up/drill.

    This fire occurred at 6:30 AM. Station cleanup occurs at 8 when the daytime firefighter arrives. Drill time is usually scheduled for late morning or early afternoon. As OP stated, this was before the hiring of the 2nd shift firefighter.

    RIT/FAST operations are supposed to be RAPID. You don't need everything off the truck.

    I disagree. We have a list of tools that come off the truck and are placed on a designated tarp reserved for RIT operations. It assures that the tools are there for that purpose and have not been pulled off the apparatus for other suppression operations. It's a policy which I had implemented last year.The task is assigned to junior and/or support personnel.

    So the senior people showed up, and didn't take command till later in the incident. If you are going to carry the title "Assistant Chief" and you get on-scene, you don't see fire and decide "I'm just going to be a blue shirt today". You take command as the Senior officer present. Or if you aren't, once again, don't show up

    Again, that's your system. I arrived a minute after AC. DC was enroute and about 5 minutes out. AC and I had a discussion and since he was almost packed out simply made sense for me to assume command until DC arrived. At that point DC took command and transitioned to Safety Officer. The whole process actually flowed quite nicely and smoothly.

    First a cop/sheriff/deputy is NOT a firefighter. Has no idea what they should be looking for. Second, YOU are a JUNIOR. You have no idea what you should be looking for doing. So the 360 that was conducted was conducted by two people who have no idea what they are looking for/doing. Therefore, it was not done

    Was conducted as soon as I assumed command from AC. DC did his own after he assumed command from me. At the same time I performed another one as SO.

    I wasn't there, but I can tell you that IF it was a flashover, that means that the hose line passed the main body of fire/source of heat.

    There was never a flashover. The AC inside described it as an aggressive rollover and the fire never got below 3' or 4' from floor level. The fire had been in rollover stage in the hallway for about 2 minutes prior to the "event".

    I will say this. I don't know you from Adam. I don't know if this was a second, third, forth-hand story or if it is even real.

    A couple of less experienced firefighters who were operating interior with the DC described it as a flashover. They were incorrect.

    However, IF it is 100% true, and this is how the Great Cowards Department actually operates, than it confirmed EVERYTHING anyone has ever said about them.

    And how is that? We responded to a structure fire with unknown occupancy in a occupied dwelling. On arrival we had heavy fire in one room in the rear (kitchen) with extension to the attic and heavy smoke in the hallway. All three bedrooms were clear with no fire or smoke. Crew made entry with a line and conducted a search of the bedrooms and then pulled out and the operation went defensive due to the fire taking control of the attic. In the end we lost one other room. Contents of all three bedrooms and the attached garage was saved.

    If only TWO firefighters can be mustered, than I agree with the Chief they DO need more paid firefighters, despite the great cowards claim against it.

    Not accurate. When I arrived, which was about 4 minutes after tone we had 2 firefighters, the AC, 2 juniors, and the medic crew who are cross-trained to operate our engines and provide support tasks. Within another 2-3 minutes we had the DC, an additional engine and tanker on scene and another 4-5 firefighters and 2 more captains. A mutual aid engine with 3 arrived shortly after that. Total response excluding MA ended up being 16, with 2 of them being junior members.

    If this is 100% true than the great coward had better not EVER call for a paid firefighter to lose his job after an accident if his own department is allowing JUNIORs to RIDE and DRESS OUT in a MOVING FIRE TRUCK UNBELTED.

    Fully agree that the policy of allowing members to dress out in a moving truck is an issue. I fully disagree with it. But it is a common practice here including the in neighboring cities with fully career staffs. I have discussed it with little or no impact.

    There is no doubt that there will be consequences for our Chief officers if we have an accident and injuries or deaths from not being belted, and I have expressed my displeasure to them about the policy. However, in the end, it is their call not mine and they hold the responsibility for changing the policy. I cannot alter the policy as much as I would like to. All I can do is continue to discuss it.

    My advice, because it is already too late, is if this story is 100% true, you never again reference it, and never again air your dirty laundry for an entire world to see.

    The way it was told was not accurate. The operation actually went quite well with a fairly descent save resulting considering the delayed notification and advanced fire conditions in the very large attic space on arrival. Response was good and the command structure functioned well given the multiple ICs.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 06-12-2011 at 09:45 PM.
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    The way it was told was not accurate.
    It's been a long time. I'm not perfect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREguy2011 View Post
    It's obvious that you would automatically ventilate horizontally on the A-side and let the fire stay in that spot. Then you would throw up a ladder on the 2d story and vent the second floor windows. If you ask anyone else they would tell you to VES, but if you're a Jr in the southern area, your department probably won't know what VES is anyways.
    AUTOMATICALLY?................NO! Too many variables. Single R&C? Multiple rooms venting to a broken window on side A? I'll automatically make a Decision once I make a 360 sizeup,NOT before. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6Duron1 View Post
    With only Junior Firefighting experience with knowledge only of that department's SOP's and SOG's, that's why I liked this fire over the other fires we've had.

    The Captain who left the station did not break department policy. He took our primary response vehicle (rescue 2) as he is the only paid person on shift anyways.

    With the PPE donning (minus SCBA), our policy is to get dressed en route to a call, reduces response times, however it wouldn't take a second longer to get dressed before we start rolling (which I've done probably about once or twice).

    What's wrong with taking all of our tools of the engine?

    The firefighter who was on scene didn't have his gear, he left it at Camp Minden (where he was heading to work)

    We only had two firefighters because everyone else was probably getting their kids off to school.

    Nothing to say about La except for: he handled it the same way our Deputy Chief did at the other fires I've been at.

    The Assistant Chief (active Shreveport Firefighter Captain/Instructor) had his gear and was able to enter the fire as soon as he got there.

    After looking back, yeah it was kind of stupid to "tell" the IC I was getting a 360, so next time that happens, I'll be sure to see if the IC needs anything else. But isn't a 360 necessary at all fires? The deputy was going around back anyways, so I thought I'd tag along with him.

    I can't say anything about the flash-over because I wasn't there. Also I'd rather not say anything about the poor excuse, it probably was; but this early in the morning (I was the only person riding out along with the 2 person medic crew), I was surprised we got that much of a response. Thanks for showing me those things John.
    Yup as the IC should have done his OWN 360 PRIOR to Interior operations. T.c.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    He was a junior with our department for about a year and a half. A few months before he relocated he turned 18 and became a probationary firefighter.

    He had completed his junior checklist, which is similar to the standard firefighter checklist with the exception of live burn time. He had completed some live burn time on the firefighter checklist before leaving.
    6DURON1:

    Kid, do yourself a HUGE favor. Go see a professional Hypnotist. Have him erase each and every concious thought and memory having anything even remotely related to anything that the pubic hair or his band of merry idiots taught you. Then go to an accredited Firefighting School, and obtain your Firefighter I and II. But for the love of all things holy, please forget whatever Booby has every taught you.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    6DURON1:

    Kid, do yourself a HUGE favor. Go see a professional Hypnotist. Have him erase each and every concious thought and memory having anything even remotely related to anything that the pubic hair or his band of merry idiots taught you. Then go to an accredited Firefighting School, and obtain your Firefighter I and II. But for the love of all things holy, please forget whatever Booby has every taught you.
    And ignore everything FWD says.

    Band of merry idiots huh?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Yup as the IC should have done his OWN 360 PRIOR to Interior operations. T.c.
    I honestly don't know if the AC did a 360, but given that he was the one that told me about the fire venting out the rear window and where the utilities were, so it's likely he did do a 360 and 6Duron1 missed that. I also received other info that I doubt anyone else on the fireground would have had the experience to observe.

    His plan was to stay outside until the DC arrived, but when I arrived it was simply much easier for him to go interior and transfer command to me.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 06-12-2011 at 09:46 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Band of merry idiots huh?
    Perhaps you'd prefer a "Bunch of cowards?"
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    6DURON1:

    Kid, do yourself a HUGE favor. Go see a professional Hypnotist. Have him erase each and every concious thought and memory having anything even remotely related to anything that the pubic hair or his band of merry idiots taught you. Then go to an accredited Firefighting School, and obtain your Firefighter I and II. But for the love of all things holy, please forget whatever Booby has every taught you.
    no disrespect Buff, but my experience as an active member of BPFD#1 has taught me much more than I have ever thought to learn if I hadn't joined the department at all. If I forget everything he has taught me, how will I learn the "right" way?

    Really I enjoyed my experience being a member of BPFD#1, without it, I wouldn't be where I am today. I know for you guys, it's easier to say that a department should do such things; especially when you are talking about a non-NFPA standard department doing NFPA things. Yeah it's supposed to be safer, but it's not a requirement. I'm pretty sure not all of your departments follow the NFPA standard for backing up a truck (BPFD#1 did). I'm pretty sure that your departments don't have specific SOP's for brush fires, medical calls and etc. Why don't you look at your own departments before trying to correct someone else.

    FWDBuff, would you mind not calling someone a coward who chooses to be a firefighter (even if his/her personal ethics are different from yours) and isn't someone who abuses the 911 system.

    To use as an example (I'm not sure that Gonzo even posted on here): I have attached photos of the City of Marlboro, MA to show you that not even the "great gonzos" department is perfect. Notice how many guys should be wearing SCBA's and how close they are to the smoke. Even one picture has shows a firefighter coming out of a smoky building without wearing an SCBA. I'm pretty sure I can find at least 3 pictures of each department not doing something right. Oh yeah before you ask: BPFD#1 wears SCBA's for fires, overhaul and salvage, and even car fires. Why don't you look in the mirror before you look out the window B.U.F.F.

    Pictures were found from the official website:
    City of Marlboro
    Last edited by 6Duron1; 06-13-2011 at 12:42 AM. Reason: Pics removed because they have no value.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Perhaps you'd prefer a "Bunch of cowards?"
    If it was true.

    But given we make entry most of the time (much to my displeasure), it isn't.

    One day the fire service will learn that we can still be professional and do our job without making entry nearly as much as we do. I wish that day was today in my career department, but unfortunately, it's not.

    Yes, I would be much happier if we were much less aggressive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6Duron1 View Post
    no disrespect Buff, but my experience as an active member of BPFD#1 has taught me much more than I have ever thought to learn if I hadn't joined the department at all. If I forget everything he has taught me, how will I learn the "right" way?

    Really I enjoyed my experience being a member of BPFD#1, without it, I wouldn't be where I am today. I know for you guys, it's easier to say that a department should do such things; especially when you are talking about a non-NFPA standard department doing NFPA things. Yeah it's supposed to be safer, but it's not a requirement. I'm pretty sure not all of your departments follow the NFPA standard for backing up a truck (BPFD#1 did). I'm pretty sure that your departments don't have specific SOP's for brush fires, medical calls and etc. Why don't you look at your own departments before trying to correct someone else.

    FWDBuff, would you mind not calling someone a coward who chooses to be a firefighter (even if his/her personal ethics are different from yours) and isn't someone who abuses the 911 system.

    To use as an example (I'm not sure that Gonzo even posted on here): I have attached photos of the City of Marlboro, MA to show you that not even the "great gonzos" department is perfect. Notice how many guys should be wearing SCBA's and how close they are to the smoke. Even one picture has shows a firefighter coming out of a smoky building without wearing an SCBA. I'm pretty sure I can find at least 3 pictures of each department not doing something right. Oh yeah before you ask: BPFD#1 wears SCBA's for fires, overhaul and salvage, and even car fires. Why don't you look in the mirror before you look out the window B.U.F.F.

    Pictures were found from the official website:
    City of Marlboro
    you should be absolutely ashamed of yourself for this post. apparently you learned how to stick your foot in your mouth from La.

    PS. My depts SOPs are bigger than probably most other posters depts here combined, so drop the dick measuring contest.
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    Not going to even address The Great Coward. It truly isn't worth it anymore. I can only hope that he can go hunting with Dick Cheney one day.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6Duron1 View Post
    no disrespect Buff, but my experience as an active member of BPFD#1 has taught me much more than I have ever thought to learn if I hadn't joined the department at all. If I forget everything he has taught me, how will I learn the "right" way?

    Really I enjoyed my experience being a member of BPFD#1, without it, I wouldn't be where I am today. I know for you guys, it's easier to say that a department should do such things; especially when you are talking about a non-NFPA standard department doing NFPA things. Yeah it's supposed to be safer, but it's not a requirement. I'm pretty sure not all of your departments follow the NFPA standard for backing up a truck (BPFD#1 did). I'm pretty sure that your departments don't have specific SOP's for brush fires, medical calls and etc. Why don't you look at your own departments before trying to correct someone else.

    FWDBuff, would you mind not calling someone a coward who chooses to be a firefighter (even if his/her personal ethics are different from yours) and isn't someone who abuses the 911 system.

    To use as an example (I'm not sure that Gonzo even posted on here): I have attached photos of the City of Marlboro, MA to show you that not even the "great gonzos" department is perfect. Notice how many guys should be wearing SCBA's and how close they are to the smoke. Even one picture has shows a firefighter coming out of a smoky building without wearing an SCBA. I'm pretty sure I can find at least 3 pictures of each department not doing something right. Oh yeah before you ask: BPFD#1 wears SCBA's for fires, overhaul and salvage, and even car fires. Why don't you look in the mirror before you look out the window B.U.F.F.

    Pictures were found from the official website:
    City of Marlboro
    Didn't take you long to "forget" the advice to just shut up.

    First of all if the right way of doing things you learned there included children dressing out in moving vehicles, then YES. You need to learn.

    Second NFPA isn't a "safer" way, nor is it only a "requirement" as you foolishly think. Do I agree with everything they utter? No. Do I realize that is the STANDARD I will be held to in a COURT OF LAW should something happen? You bet your butt.

    Third, your choice to include Deputy Chief Gonzo's department is a bit odd, long stretch and moronic. Casts the famous strawman arguement when faced with facts that what you presented were wrong, an attempt to deflect attention away from your short-comings.

    The story you presented was a perfect example of how a department should not be run, a fire should not be handled and two people that continue to dig deeper holes with every finger strike of a key on this forum.
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    'The fire went out and nobody got hurt' is a poor excuse for a fireground critique.

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    First of all if the right way of doing things you learned there included children dressing out in moving vehicles, then YES. You need to learn.

    YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. What I said was different than what was read: I meant, why should I forget them when I should learn from the mistakes.

    The story you presented was a perfect example of how a department should not be run.

    Yes you can say that. But it's not LA's fault. He's not Chief of Department or the Deputy Chief (I'm sure everyone has a reason for their madness), it's the leadership's fault for not fixing it. VBFD is a highly respected fire department, do they have shortcomings? If the answer is no, then look further my friend.

    I realize I have more to learn about the fire/ems service. I also have realized that I need to be more mature. So I will remember this time to think twice before speaking.
    Last edited by 6Duron1; 06-13-2011 at 12:44 AM.
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    6Duron1...

    Please stop posting because you are removing all doubt about whether you are just another wise *** punk.
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    I think this thread has run it's course.
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    Hey 6Duron1 ..

    Really no point in arguing with some of these guys anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanEMVFD View Post
    I think this thread has run it's course.
    Yep, what has been is done. Can't change it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    If it was true.

    But given we make entry most of the time (much to my displeasure), it isn't.

    One day the fire service will learn that we can still be professional and do our job without making entry nearly as much as we do. I wish that day was today in my career department, but unfortunately, it's not.

    Yes, I would be much happier if we were much less aggressive.
    Let's see if I'm getting ANY of this straight: We're suiting up in the CAB,instead of the Station? GREENHORNS are doing 360's? For IC? We're entering a building with fire blowing out a window AND the ROOF? Was it a truss roof? Isn't that DANGEROUS? And a ceiling gave in? So which parts of this are FACT and which parts are FICTION? Cause this doesn't sound like the Parrish I've come to know. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanEMVFD View Post
    I think this thread has run it's course.
    A can of worms this big? I think NOT! T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Let's see if I'm getting ANY of this straight: We're suiting up in the CAB,instead of the Station? GREENHORNS are doing 360's? For IC? We're entering a building with fire blowing out a window AND the ROOF? Was it a truss roof? Isn't that DANGEROUS? And a ceiling gave in? So which parts of this are FACT and which parts are FICTION? Cause this doesn't sound like the Parrish I've come to know. T.C.
    Yes, the departments dons in the cab. It's not any different gearing up in a moving cab than it is donning an scba in a moving truck.
    Greenhorns don't usually do 360s. I thought (mistake) with the low exterior man-power, no-one had to time to.
    I don't know, I'm not FF1.
    Yes the ceiling gave in.
    Last edited by 6Duron1; 06-13-2011 at 12:33 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Let's see if I'm getting ANY of this straight: We're suiting up in the CAB,instead of the Station? GREENHORNS are doing 360's? For IC? We're entering a building with fire blowing out a window AND the ROOF? Was it a truss roof? Isn't that DANGEROUS? And a ceiling gave in? So which parts of this are FACT and which parts are FICTION? Cause this doesn't sound like the Parrish I've come to know. T.C.
    1. Yes, we are gearing up in the cab. I disagree completly as I have never done it that way and one day it will bite us in the a@@. But it's a common practice in this area, even in the all-career departments.

    2. I have no idea why 6Duron1 was doing a 360. When the AC had me take command, he gave me some very specific information which I doubt 6D1 would notice, so I suspect that the AC did in fact do a 360 and the OP just missed it. Having arrived after the AC I can't say for sure if he did a 360, but knowing how he is, I have a hard time beleiveing he didn't do one.

    3. Occupancy was unknown so a quick search was in order. At the time the search was started we had fire venting out one window in the rear and smoke from the roof. The interior hallway and 3 bedrooms were clear - no smoke, no fire. As the team made entry the roof self-vented but hallway still clear. During the search the fire dropped down into the hallway at ceiling level. As they were finishing the search an exiting, an "aggressive rollover" occurred when they were about 10-12' from the door, but there was no fire beyond 1-2' from the ceiling. They knocked it down with the handline and exited.

    Due to the fire now controlling the attic no attempt was made to knock down the fire free-burning in the kitchen and family room from the interior. That fire was knocked down from the exterior. Once the attic fire was controlled the structure was re-entered.

    We have very few residental truss roofs. This structure was a stick and nails assembly, not truss.

    There was some slight ceiling failure in the hallway with the "aggressive rollover" but there wasn't significant failure until about 10 minutes after crews had left the building. The ceiling never failed in the three bedrooms.

    Again, we are aggressive most of the time. I disagree with that aggressiveness in many cases, but it isn't my call unless it's my fire, however, in this case, given the unknown life threat (though there was no car in the driveway or garage which had it been my fire initially would have factored significantly into making entry) in this case, I didn't disagree with the call.

    I know in my VFD gig I would not have condoned entry, even with the unknown life threat, given the lack of vehicles on the property as well as likely resource, training and experience issues.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 06-13-2011 at 12:23 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    1. Yes, we are gearing up in the cab. I disagree completly as I have never done it that way and one day it will bite us in the a@@. But it's a common practice in this area, even in the all-career departments.
    You should seriously just stop talking. You rail against CAREER firefighters before facts are known, call for murder charges and everything else, yet can only offer excuses on why your "powerless" to change your own backyard. Seriously don't ever comment on another situation till YOUR backyard is clean

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    2. I have no idea why 6Duron1 was doing a 360. When the AC had me take command, he gave me some very specific information which I doubt 6D1 would notice, so I suspect that the AC did in fact do a 360 and the OP just missed it. Having arrived after the AC I can't say for sure if he did a 360, but knowing how he is, I have a hard time beleiveing he didn't do one.
    So no one knows if it was done or not. Is it any wonder why people teach that you never go DOWN the Chain of Command? Can someone here name me ANY Fire Department or leadership establishment where a "boss" comes in and tells the mail clerk he's in charge? Or where a Battalion Chief or higher says eh screw it, Master FF so and so has it. Guess who's ***** is being handed to them in a court of law should someone sue. The Master FF or the BC on scene?

    But this fire went smoothly? Ahuh..

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    3. Occupancy was unknown so a quick search was in order. At the time the search was started we had fire venting out one window in the rear and smoke from the roof. The interior hallway and 3 bedrooms were clear - no smoke, no fire. As the team made entry the roof self-vented but hallway still clear. During the search the fire dropped down into the hallway at ceiling level. As they were finishing the search an exiting, an "aggressive rollover" occurred when they were about 10-12' from the door, but there was no fire beyond 1-2' from the ceiling. They knocked it down with the handline and exited.
    Anyone still thinking this fire was handled well? I wasn't even there and can tell from the course of the thread and the stories that the fire most likely started in the attic space or in an area around an open stud.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Due to the fire now controlling the attic no attempt was made to knock down the fire free-burning in the kitchen and family room from the interior. That fire was knocked down from the exterior. Once the attic fire was controlled the structure was re-entered.
    So it took an evacuation to find the fire?? Mental note, do not travel to any area other than New Orleans for Madris Gras

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    We have very few residental truss roofs. This structure was a stick and nails assembly, not truss.

    There was some slight ceiling failure in the hallway with the "aggressive rollover" but there wasn't significant failure until about 10 minutes after crews had left the building. The ceiling never failed in the three bedrooms.
    So you had the time to find the fire and put it out that basic construction knowledge afforded you, but..........?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Again, we are aggressive most of the time.
    Except at this fire...

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I disagree with that aggressiveness in many cases, but it isn't my call unless it's my fire, however, in this case, given the unknown life threat (though there was no car in the driveway or garage which had it been my fire initially would have factored significantly into making entry) in this case, I didn't disagree with the call
    Well we finally found something that do agree with....imagine that. Confirms what others are saying but ce la viv.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I know in my VFD gig I would not have condoned entry, even with the unknown life threat, given the lack of vehicles on the property as well as likely resource, training and experience issues.
    Sadly we know. Which is what scares us.
    Co 11
    Virginia Beach FD

    Amateurs practice until they get it right; professionals practice until they cannot get it wrong. Which one are you?

    'The fire went out and nobody got hurt' is a poor excuse for a fireground critique.

  24. #49
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    So no one knows if it was done or not. Is it any wonder why people teach that you never go DOWN the Chain of Command? Can someone here name me ANY Fire Department or leadership establishment where a "boss" comes in and tells the mail clerk he's in charge? Or where a Battalion Chief or higher says eh screw it, Master FF so and so has it. Guess who's ***** is being handed to them in a court of law should someone sue. The Master FF or the BC on scene

    Not uncommon here for a Chief to pass the operation of an incident to someone elsde on the command staff to gain experience. As far as fires go, this was a fairly routine event and the AC decided to go interior and place me IC until the DC arrived. I guess only your Chiefs are qualified to run incidents, eh?

    Anyone still thinking this fire was handled well? I wasn't even there and can tell from the course of the thread and the stories that the fire most likely started in the attic space or in an area around an open stud.

    State Investigator was called in and never determined a cause, though he did determine it most likely started in the kitchen and travelled up to the attic given burn patterns on the kitchen wall In addition the kitchen was reported in free burn by the sheriff deputy well before there was any smoke from the attic eaves.

    So it took an evacuation to find the fire?? Mental note, do not travel to any area other than New Orleans for Madris Gras

    Do you have a reading comprehension issue. I stated that we had a fire in the kitchen and the family room on arrival. We had the manpower for either search or fire attack. The intent was to search then hit the fire however,by the time the search was completed the fire had moved into and gained control of the attic and the IC, by then the DC, decided not to operate interior due to the attic fire and problems with the ceiling.

    We knew where the fire was on arrival. We could see it. We simply chose to search rather than perform fire attack with the initial crew.

    So you had the time to find the fire and put it out that basic construction knowledge afforded you, but..........?

    See above. And by the way genuis, if you actually read the previous posts the fire never extended beyond the area that it was burning on arrival. So it was contained and extinguished without further spread.

    Well we finally found something that do agree with....imagine that. Confirms what others are saying but ce la viv

    In this case interior operations were warrented, had potential measurable value and did not place undue risk to personnel.

    Sadly, 2 or 3 times a year we make entry where the above is not the case and we do it because some percieve it as thier jobs as firefighters rather than saying "no" when we need to say "no".

    Sadly we know. Which is what scares us.

    Around here vehicles are a fairly reliable indicator of occupancy, and at the VFD with much more limited reasons, I need a reason to make entry. No vehicle screams volumes against that entry.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 06-13-2011 at 02:54 PM.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    1. Yes, we are gearing up in the cab. I disagree completly as I have never done it that way and one day it will bite us in the a@@. But it's a common practice in this area, even in the all-career departments.

    2. I have no idea why 6Duron1 was doing a 360. When the AC had me take command, he gave me some very specific information which I doubt 6D1 would notice, so I suspect that the AC did in fact do a 360 and the OP just missed it. Having arrived after the AC I can't say for sure if he did a 360, but knowing how he is, I have a hard time beleiveing he didn't do one.

    3. Occupancy was unknown so a quick search was in order. At the time the search was started we had fire venting out one window in the rear and smoke from the roof. The interior hallway and 3 bedrooms were clear - no smoke, no fire. As the team made entry the roof self-vented but hallway still clear. During the search the fire dropped down into the hallway at ceiling level. As they were finishing the search an exiting, an "aggressive rollover" occurred when they were about 10-12' from the door, but there was no fire beyond 1-2' from the ceiling. They knocked it down with the handline and exited.

    Due to the fire now controlling the attic no attempt was made to knock down the fire free-burning in the kitchen and family room from the interior. That fire was knocked down from the exterior. Once the attic fire was controlled the structure was re-entered.

    We have very few residental truss roofs. This structure was a stick and nails assembly, not truss.

    There was some slight ceiling failure in the hallway with the "aggressive rollover" but there wasn't significant failure until about 10 minutes after crews had left the building. The ceiling never failed in the three bedrooms.

    Again, we are aggressive most of the time. I disagree with that aggressiveness in many cases, but it isn't my call unless it's my fire, however, in this case, given the unknown life threat (though there was no car in the driveway or garage which had it been my fire initially would have factored significantly into making entry) in this case, I didn't disagree with the call.

    I know in my VFD gig I would not have condoned entry, even with the unknown life threat, given the lack of vehicles on the property as well as likely resource, training and experience issues.
    Fair enough. Here we gear up,then get on the rig.Very easy to pack up even with the seatbelt fastened. And we enter truss structures to attack fire depending on conditions. We have quite a few. Ceiling is no biggie outside of I don't like wearing them.But from your past posts this sounded a little weird from your usual procedures. Thanks for the clarification. T.C.

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