How to decide How/When/Where to Vent

[RyanEMVFD]

I think this thread has run it's course.

[LaFireEducator]

Hey 6Duron1 ..

Really no point in arguing with some of these guys anymore.

[6Duron1]

I think this thread has run it's course.

Yep, what has been is done. Can't change it.

[Rescue101]

If it was true.

But given we make entry most of the time (much to my displeasure), it isn't.

One day the fire service will learn that we can still be professional and do our job without making entry nearly as much as we do. I wish that day was today in my career department, but unfortunately, it's not.

Yes, I would be much happier if we were much less aggressive.

Let's see if I'm getting ANY of this straight: We're suiting up in the CAB,instead of the Station? GREENHORNS are doing 360's? For IC? We're entering a building with fire blowing out a window AND the ROOF? Was it a truss roof? Isn't that DANGEROUS? And a ceiling gave in? So which parts of this are FACT and which parts are FICTION? Cause this doesn't sound like the Parrish I've come to know. T.C.

[Rescue101]

I think this thread has run it's course.

A can of worms this big? I think NOT! T.C.

[6Duron1]

Let's see if I'm getting ANY of this straight: We're suiting up in the CAB,instead of the Station? GREENHORNS are doing 360's? For IC? We're entering a building with fire blowing out a window AND the ROOF? Was it a truss roof? Isn't that DANGEROUS? And a ceiling gave in? So which parts of this are FACT and which parts are FICTION? Cause this doesn't sound like the Parrish I've come to know. T.C.

Yes, the departments dons in the cab. It's not any different gearing up in a moving cab than it is donning an scba in a moving truck.
Greenhorns don't usually do 360s. I thought (mistake) with the low exterior man-power, no-one had to time to.
I don't know, I'm not FF1.
Yes the ceiling gave in.

[LaFireEducator]

Let's see if I'm getting ANY of this straight: We're suiting up in the CAB,instead of the Station? GREENHORNS are doing 360's? For IC? We're entering a building with fire blowing out a window AND the ROOF? Was it a truss roof? Isn't that DANGEROUS? And a ceiling gave in? So which parts of this are FACT and which parts are FICTION? Cause this doesn't sound like the Parrish I've come to know. T.C.

1. Yes, we are gearing up in the cab. I disagree completly as I have never done it that way and one day it will bite us in the a@@. But it's a common practice in this area, even in the all-career departments.

2. I have no idea why 6Duron1 was doing a 360. When the AC had me take command, he gave me some very specific information which I doubt 6D1 would notice, so I suspect that the AC did in fact do a 360 and the OP just missed it. Having arrived after the AC I can't say for sure if he did a 360, but knowing how he is, I have a hard time beleiveing he didn't do one.

3. Occupancy was unknown so a quick search was in order. At the time the search was started we had fire venting out one window in the rear and smoke from the roof. The interior hallway and 3 bedrooms were clear - no smoke, no fire. As the team made entry the roof self-vented but hallway still clear. During the search the fire dropped down into the hallway at ceiling level. As they were finishing the search an exiting, an "aggressive rollover" occurred when they were about 10-12' from the door, but there was no fire beyond 1-2' from the ceiling. They knocked it down with the handline and exited.

Due to the fire now controlling the attic no attempt was made to knock down the fire free-burning in the kitchen and family room from the interior. That fire was knocked down from the exterior. Once the attic fire was controlled the structure was re-entered.

We have very few residental truss roofs. This structure was a stick and nails assembly, not truss.

There was some slight ceiling failure in the hallway with the "aggressive rollover" but there wasn't significant failure until about 10 minutes after crews had left the building. The ceiling never failed in the three bedrooms.

Again, we are aggressive most of the time. I disagree with that aggressiveness in many cases, but it isn't my call unless it's my fire, however, in this case, given the unknown life threat (though there was no car in the driveway or garage which had it been my fire initially would have factored significantly into making entry) in this case, I didn't disagree with the call.

I know in my VFD gig I would not have condoned entry, even with the unknown life threat, given the lack of vehicles on the property as well as likely resource, training and experience issues.

[JohnVBFD]

1. Yes, we are gearing up in the cab. I disagree completly as I have never done it that way and one day it will bite us in the a@@. But it's a common practice in this area, even in the all-career departments.

You should seriously just stop talking. You rail against CAREER firefighters before facts are known, call for murder charges and everything else, yet can only offer excuses on why your "powerless" to change your own backyard. Seriously don't ever comment on another situation till YOUR backyard is clean

2. I have no idea why 6Duron1 was doing a 360. When the AC had me take command, he gave me some very specific information which I doubt 6D1 would notice, so I suspect that the AC did in fact do a 360 and the OP just missed it. Having arrived after the AC I can't say for sure if he did a 360, but knowing how he is, I have a hard time beleiveing he didn't do one.

So no one knows if it was done or not. Is it any wonder why people teach that you never go DOWN the Chain of Command? Can someone here name me ANY Fire Department or leadership establishment where a "boss" comes in and tells the mail clerk he's in charge? Or where a Battalion Chief or higher says eh screw it, Master FF so and so has it. Guess who's ***** is being handed to them in a court of law should someone sue. The Master FF or the BC on scene?

But this fire went smoothly? Ahuh..

3. Occupancy was unknown so a quick search was in order. At the time the search was started we had fire venting out one window in the rear and smoke from the roof. The interior hallway and 3 bedrooms were clear - no smoke, no fire. As the team made entry the roof self-vented but hallway still clear. During the search the fire dropped down into the hallway at ceiling level. As they were finishing the search an exiting, an "aggressive rollover" occurred when they were about 10-12' from the door, but there was no fire beyond 1-2' from the ceiling. They knocked it down with the handline and exited.

Anyone still thinking this fire was handled well? I wasn't even there and can tell from the course of the thread and the stories that the fire most likely started in the attic space or in an area around an open stud.

Due to the fire now controlling the attic no attempt was made to knock down the fire free-burning in the kitchen and family room from the interior. That fire was knocked down from the exterior. Once the attic fire was controlled the structure was re-entered.

So it took an evacuation to find the fire?? Mental note, do not travel to any area other than New Orleans for Madris Gras

We have very few residental truss roofs. This structure was a stick and nails assembly, not truss.

There was some slight ceiling failure in the hallway with the "aggressive rollover" but there wasn't significant failure until about 10 minutes after crews had left the building. The ceiling never failed in the three bedrooms.

So you had the time to find the fire and put it out that basic construction knowledge afforded you, but..........?

Again, we are aggressive most of the time.

Except at this fire...

I disagree with that aggressiveness in many cases, but it isn't my call unless it's my fire, however, in this case, given the unknown life threat (though there was no car in the driveway or garage which had it been my fire initially would have factored significantly into making entry) in this case, I didn't disagree with the call

Well we finally found something that do agree with....imagine that. Confirms what others are saying but ce la viv.

I know in my VFD gig I would not have condoned entry, even with the unknown life threat, given the lack of vehicles on the property as well as likely resource, training and experience issues.

Sadly we know. Which is what scares us.

[LaFireEducator]

So no one knows if it was done or not. Is it any wonder why people teach that you never go DOWN the Chain of Command? Can someone here name me ANY Fire Department or leadership establishment where a "boss" comes in and tells the mail clerk he's in charge? Or where a Battalion Chief or higher says eh screw it, Master FF so and so has it. Guess who's ***** is being handed to them in a court of law should someone sue. The Master FF or the BC on scene

Not uncommon here for a Chief to pass the operation of an incident to someone elsde on the command staff to gain experience. As far as fires go, this was a fairly routine event and the AC decided to go interior and place me IC until the DC arrived. I guess only your Chiefs are qualified to run incidents, eh?

Anyone still thinking this fire was handled well? I wasn't even there and can tell from the course of the thread and the stories that the fire most likely started in the attic space or in an area around an open stud.

State Investigator was called in and never determined a cause, though he did determine it most likely started in the kitchen and travelled up to the attic given burn patterns on the kitchen wall In addition the kitchen was reported in free burn by the sheriff deputy well before there was any smoke from the attic eaves.

So it took an evacuation to find the fire?? Mental note, do not travel to any area other than New Orleans for Madris Gras

Do you have a reading comprehension issue. I stated that we had a fire in the kitchen and the family room on arrival. We had the manpower for either search or fire attack. The intent was to search then hit the fire however,by the time the search was completed the fire had moved into and gained control of the attic and the IC, by then the DC, decided not to operate interior due to the attic fire and problems with the ceiling.

We knew where the fire was on arrival. We could see it. We simply chose to search rather than perform fire attack with the initial crew.

So you had the time to find the fire and put it out that basic construction knowledge afforded you, but..........?

See above. And by the way genuis, if you actually read the previous posts the fire never extended beyond the area that it was burning on arrival. So it was contained and extinguished without further spread.

Well we finally found something that do agree with....imagine that. Confirms what others are saying but ce la viv

In this case interior operations were warrented, had potential measurable value and did not place undue risk to personnel.

Sadly, 2 or 3 times a year we make entry where the above is not the case and we do it because some percieve it as thier jobs as firefighters rather than saying "no" when we need to say "no".

Sadly we know. Which is what scares us.

Around here vehicles are a fairly reliable indicator of occupancy, and at the VFD with much more limited reasons, I need a reason to make entry. No vehicle screams volumes against that entry.

[Rescue101]

1. Yes, we are gearing up in the cab. I disagree completly as I have never done it that way and one day it will bite us in the a@@. But it's a common practice in this area, even in the all-career departments.

2. I have no idea why 6Duron1 was doing a 360. When the AC had me take command, he gave me some very specific information which I doubt 6D1 would notice, so I suspect that the AC did in fact do a 360 and the OP just missed it. Having arrived after the AC I can't say for sure if he did a 360, but knowing how he is, I have a hard time beleiveing he didn't do one.

3. Occupancy was unknown so a quick search was in order. At the time the search was started we had fire venting out one window in the rear and smoke from the roof. The interior hallway and 3 bedrooms were clear - no smoke, no fire. As the team made entry the roof self-vented but hallway still clear. During the search the fire dropped down into the hallway at ceiling level. As they were finishing the search an exiting, an "aggressive rollover" occurred when they were about 10-12' from the door, but there was no fire beyond 1-2' from the ceiling. They knocked it down with the handline and exited.

Due to the fire now controlling the attic no attempt was made to knock down the fire free-burning in the kitchen and family room from the interior. That fire was knocked down from the exterior. Once the attic fire was controlled the structure was re-entered.

We have very few residental truss roofs. This structure was a stick and nails assembly, not truss.

There was some slight ceiling failure in the hallway with the "aggressive rollover" but there wasn't significant failure until about 10 minutes after crews had left the building. The ceiling never failed in the three bedrooms.

Again, we are aggressive most of the time. I disagree with that aggressiveness in many cases, but it isn't my call unless it's my fire, however, in this case, given the unknown life threat (though there was no car in the driveway or garage which had it been my fire initially would have factored significantly into making entry) in this case, I didn't disagree with the call.

I know in my VFD gig I would not have condoned entry, even with the unknown life threat, given the lack of vehicles on the property as well as likely resource, training and experience issues.

Fair enough. Here we gear up,then get on the rig.Very easy to pack up even with the seatbelt fastened. And we enter truss structures to attack fire depending on conditions. We have quite a few. Ceiling is no biggie outside of I don't like wearing them.But from your past posts this sounded a little weird from your usual procedures. Thanks for the clarification. T.C.

[6Duron1]

Fair enough. Here we gear up,then get on the rig.Very easy to pack up even with the seatbelt fastened. And we enter truss structures to attack fire depending on conditions. We have quite a few. Ceiling is no biggie outside of I don't like wearing them.But from your past posts this sounded a little weird from your usual procedures. Thanks for the clarification. T.C.

Yeah everything is different according to georgraphy. Example: I see more traditional helmets in one fire station up here than I ever did in LA. Let me ask you a question.
Does your department donn your gear before you mount the trucks to go on a medical call?

[FyredUp]

Yeah everything is different according to georgraphy. Example: I see more traditional helmets in one fire station up here than I ever did in LA. Let me ask you a question.
Does your department donn your gear before you mount the trucks to go on a medical call?

Generally we do not wear full turn out gear for a medical call because it simply isn't necessary. The only time you will see people gear up is if the medical call is part of a vehicle accident, involves machinery or equipment, or inclement weather, or the firefighter was working out and is in work out clothes.

We generally wear our station uniforms and our reflective safety vests.

[6Duron1]

Alright, now let's use your policy as an example. You are wearing only turnout pants, and you are diverted from a medical call to a structure fire, you will unbuckle and start gearing up would you not?

[FyredUp]

Alright, now let's use your policy as an example. You are wearing only turnout pants, and you are diverted from a medical call to a structure fire, you will unbuckle and start gearing up would you not?

Depends on how close we are. Many officers are sticklers on the no dressing out while we drive. Some will have the MPO stop the rig to dress out. Some will have the crew dress out on arrival. Some will still allow dressing out while in motion.

[6Duron1]

which is still against the "no-gearing up" in the moving truck mentality that you guys have. So it's alright to do it sometimes, but not all the time? Doesn't sound right. Either you allow it or don't.

[FyredUp]

which is still against the "no-gearing up" in the moving truck mentality that you guys have. So it's alright to do it sometimes, but not all the time? Doesn't sound right. Either you allow it or don't.

First of all, I don't make policy, I am a grunt. Secondly, we are not supposed to dress in route. Thirdly, you are a real smart *** you know that? You were a JUNIOR firefighter, and are not even a firefighter currently, and you like to try and act like you have a freaking clue. My advice? Grow up, shut up, and stop trying to justify your mistakes by pointing at others. I bet you were a real joy as a junior walking around behind people never smart enough to know when to shut the hell up.

[nyckftbl]

Alright, now let's use your policy as an example. You are wearing only turnout pants, and you are diverted from a medical call to a structure fire, you will unbuckle and start gearing up would you not?

We pull over and get dressed. next question.

[Rescue101]

Yeah everything is different according to georgraphy. Example: I see more traditional helmets in one fire station up here than I ever did in LA. Let me ask you a question.
Does your department donn your gear before you mount the trucks to go on a medical call?

No. We don't do medical. Just that easy. T.C.

[RFD21C]

I really don't care about a fire in podunk LA that happened a few years ago!! Why are we even talking about this?

[nyckftbl]

I really don't care about a fire in podunk LA that happened a few years ago!! Why are we even talking about this?

Who is this "we"? You went out of your way to post in a thread, to express that you dont care. Congrats.