Thread: Roll up doors

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    So accidents just never happen? Someone has to be an idiot for a civilian taking off a compartment door or having a latch fail and that door popping open?
    The type of door isn't going to fix accidents. If guys leave hinged doors open, they'll leave roll ups open. If they can't get hinged doors to latch, they won't get the roll ups to close securely you'll hit a bump and it'll fly open. So you won't whack the side of the fire house when you leave, and you'll keep going. Hopefully you don't throw out something heavy and whack a pedestrian. But please tell me, how does changing the door style prevent those accidents? If its so much of a problem you are advocating switching door styles because of it, your people might be a little slow.

    cute post though.

    All I can say is from my experience the doors bind up. Yea we have pepsi trucks here, but I bet pepsi doesn't keep their trucks in heated garages. That speeds up corrosion.
    Last edited by nameless; 01-06-2011 at 11:04 PM.

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    We have roll up doors on a 98 and have not any problems with them binding up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    The type of door isn't going to fix accidents. If guys leave hinged doors open, they'll leave roll ups open. If they can't get hinged doors to latch, they won't get the roll ups to close securely you'll hit a bump and it'll fly open. So you won't whack the side of the fire house when you leave, and you'll keep going. Hopefully you don't throw out something heavy and whack a pedestrian. But please tell me, how does changing the door style prevent those accidents? If its so much of a problem you are advocating switching door styles because of it, your people might be a little slow.
    Funny how those wiley ol' roll up doors either stick or they fly up when you hit a bump (I've never seen it happen). Which is it?

    My experience with the apparatus is that the roll ups require very little maintenance, I've never had a latch problem, never had a problem with clearance when opening, it was much easier moving a fan or portable pump out of the compartment... Can't say the same for hinged.

    Its simple a roll up door won't get ripped off or damage a door frame if left open or if the latch breaks.

    All I can say is from my experience the doors bind up. Yea we have pepsi trucks here, but I bet pepsi doesn't keep their trucks in heated garages. That speeds up corrosion.
    I would say you should probably buy better quality roll up doors.

    Other then those roll up doors sticking (a relatively easy thing to prevent), what's the advantage to hinged doors?
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Dry silicone spray and atleast monthly washing and every run wash works good for us.

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    I forgot about one more bitch about hinged doors. The struts not holding them open, then requiring 2 people to get something out of the compartment. Usually noticed after you open it, and it comes back down and hits you.

    You will NEVER have that problem with a roll up door.

    Our change to roll up doors wasn't necessitated by damaged hinged doors. Our reasons are for the weight savings, ease of removing/replacing equipment, and maintenance costs (struts and latches not needed in inventory, labor cost gone repairing them). I've never seen a roll up door catch fail, to where it opened. And if it did, a light inside the cab will tell you if it did. Can't say that about hinged doors (unless the newer ones have it, ours don't).

    The people that are slow, are the ones still spec'ing hinged doors. Get with the program.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    All I can say is from my experience the doors bind up. Yea we have pepsi trucks here, but I bet pepsi doesn't keep their trucks in heated garages. That speeds up corrosion.
    Actually they and Coke do. They are also in the elements more and longer than your rig is, daily. They don't have corrosion issues. In fact, there is nothing to corrode. Look at how they are made.

    FM1
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

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    I can say while we wash our trucks, I can't think of a time we ever lubed the tracks on our R.O.M. doors. They have held up just fine for us, and I can say the Compartment Ajar light is very sensitive. All in all, roll ups have been a good choice for us.

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    The only problem that we have ever had with our roll up doors was on the rescue pumper, when the cribbing had shifted in the compartment and we had a heck of a time opening the damn door. It was not the door's fault, but poor planing on our part. This problem has been address since then and the doors work like a champ. I do however missed the large hinged doors sometimes when it rains.
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    maybe my department is forward thinking, but an indicator light for compartment doors is pretty standard. We have rigs 20+ years old with them, so that surely isn't unique to a roll up.


    It could be both. Flys open its first few months in service, jams up after that. Even jumping open a little is enough for smaller tools to fly out. Like I said before, if you have to worry about doors being left open so often that you use it in your decision between hinged and roll up doors, perhaps its not better quality equipment but better firemen that is needed.

    I like hinged doors because even on 20+ year old pieces the doors still work however, all of the "older" pieces with roll up doors are a royal pain to use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    I like hinged doors because even on 20+ year old pieces the doors still work however, all of the "older" pieces with roll up doors are a royal pain to use.
    Out of curiosity, what brand are these roll up doors you have??? Doesn't sound like they are ROM.

    As for forward thinking using hinged doors, I don't think so. The ones I have without the cab warning light when open, are mid 90's.

    And yet, I will call you out on this. What, if anything, have a I posted wrong concerning the negative aspect of hinged doors???

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    Out of curiosity, what brand are these roll up doors you have??? Doesn't sound like they are ROM.
    Maybe that is the problem... we use ROM as well.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    (1) Recall fondly how you never had this problem with traditional hinged doors.
    (2) Remove troublesome roll up doors.
    (3) Replace with traditional hinged doors.
    (4) Rejoice in the restoration of storage space wasted for roll-up doors.
    (5) Remember this when you spec your next apparatus.
    See doors peeled off by passing traffic,see doors lying beside apparatus bay doors. NO THANKS,I'll keep my roll ups. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    1. Less chance of taking out a support column between the bay doors when the door is either left open or comes open as the rig leaves the bay.
    Sounds like a driver training issue.

    2. Lessens the profile of the rig when operating alongside the roadway with an open door.
    If the roadway is so narrow that an open compartment door is an obstruction, it should be closed down during operations anyway.

    3. Doesn't create an obstruction for hydraulic hoses or electrical cables when coming off a roller fairlead. They'll just come right out of the compartment without having to also go around a door.
    Hinge the door upwards, if that's an issue for you.

    4. How much stuff are you really storing at the top front of the compartment that at roll-up is keeping you from putting there? Seriously?
    In the past we've used a device called a "shelf" to make all levels of a compartment usable -- even the upper parts.

    We're running over 50 rigs with roll-up doors and have used them since 1997. No chance of us going back to hinged doors.
    Inertia is like that. Change sometimes comes along for its own sake and we wind up stuck with it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    Sounds like a driver training issue.



    If the roadway is so narrow that an open compartment door is an obstruction, it should be closed down during operations anyway.



    Hinge the door upwards, if that's an issue for you.



    In the past we've used a device called a "shelf" to make all levels of a compartment usable -- even the upper parts.



    Inertia is like that. Change sometimes comes along for its own sake and we wind up stuck with it.
    You're from CT. It's HIGHLY unlikely you'd understand. Rollups work GREAT around here.Way less problems than pan doors. NOBODY around here uses pan doors. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    You're from CT. It's HIGHLY unlikely you'd understand.
    Unlikely to understand what? Wasted compartment space is the same wherever you go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    Sounds like a driver training issue.
    Except when there's a mechanical failure of the latch.

    If the roadway is so narrow that an open compartment door is an obstruction, it should be closed down during operations anyway.
    Yes, because that's ALWAYS on option, isn't it?

    Hinge the door upwards, if that's an issue for you.
    Please show me a top-hinged door on a 60" tall compartment, and then we'll look into doing that.

    In the past we've used a device called a "shelf" to make all levels of a compartment usable -- even the upper parts.
    Small world, we bought some of those "shelf" things too. Found out that they work well. Nevertheless, has nothing to do with the myth of "wasted space" at the top of the compartment.

    Inertia is like that. Change sometimes comes along for its own sake and we wind up stuck with it.
    We're buying $1.5M worth of rigs per year, and review the specs annually with the direct input of the field personnel. You know what they've never asked for? Hinged doors. And keep in mind that about 100 of our 500 members are active volunteers in their own communities, so they're not simply brainwashed by what we've been purchasing for years...they actually do know the difference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    Unlikely to understand what? Wasted compartment space is the same wherever you go.
    I'd love to see pictures of your compartments utilizing all that amazing space along the "ceiling" at the top front edge of a compartment.

    Still waiting to see any real benefits to hinged over roll up.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    I'd love to see pictures of your compartments utilizing all that amazing space along the "ceiling" at the top front edge of a compartment.

    Still waiting to see any real benefits to hinged over roll up.
    Beat me too it, I was think the same thing. Let's see these super efficient compartments!

    We've had no issues with our roll-up doors functioning and will not spec anything but in the future, sans the few smaller sized openings. Our crews wash or rinse apparatus after each run as needed and inspect and wipe the tracks as part of the weekly PM on each. We've yet to have an issue. We have replaced numerous hinges and hinged door holders (springs/piston style) on older pieces. You don't like them, fine, don't use them, it's that easy. For the record, ours are ROM as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    Unlikely to understand what? Wasted compartment space is the same wherever you go.
    IF you spec the rig right, there isn't any wasted space. Where OUR roll up resides you wou need a Ladder to get to.So we wouldn't use the small amount of space the door takes up. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Except when there's a mechanical failure of the latch.
    And the latches on roll-ups never fail, right?

    Yes, because that's ALWAYS on option, isn't it?
    Why, as a matter of fact, yes, it is.

    Please show me a top-hinged door on a 60" tall compartment, and then we'll look into doing that.
    Or just design your layouts better so you don't need one on a 60" door.

    Nevertheless, has nothing to do with the myth of "wasted space" at the top of the compartment.
    There's no "myth" at all. The space reserved to store the rolled up door is lost space that could have been used to store equipment.

    You know what they've never asked for? Hinged doors.
    And your point is?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    I'd love to see pictures of your compartments utilizing all that amazing space along the "ceiling" at the top front edge of a compartment.
    I'd love to show them to you but We don't have any engines with real compartment doors left. The reserve ladder has hinged doors but, frankly, we never took advantage of the storage on that truck anyway. I do know that it had more usable storage space than its replacement which has roll-ups.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    IF you spec the rig right, there isn't any wasted space. Where OUR roll up resides you wou need a Ladder to get to.So we wouldn't use the small amount of space the door takes up. T.C.
    No, instead of wasted space you built an oversized compartment to store the compartment door.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    I'd love to show them to you but We don't have any engines with real compartment doors left. The reserve ladder has hinged doors but, frankly, we never took advantage of the storage on that truck anyway. I do know that it had more usable storage space than its replacement which has roll-ups.
    So what equipment couldn't you fit on the apparatus because of the roll up doors or is this some sort of academic discussion?
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    I know where I am from, the law enforment agencies do their best to keep that traffic flowing and not shut down the road. Seen videos of firefighters getting arrested for trying to shut down a lane.

    Latches do fail and pop open, even if you do check all the doors before pulling out. Much harder to get a roll up latch to fail unless you are jumping the rig or its get banged around alot. Not impossible but much harder.

    Seems to be more positives towards the roll ups. I use mostly all hinged which I do not have a problem with but I have seen the negatives from them first hand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    I'd love to show them to you but We don't have any engines with real compartment doors left. The reserve ladder has hinged doors but, frankly, we never took advantage of the storage on that truck anyway. I do know that it had more usable storage space than its replacement which has roll-ups.
    How conveeeeeenient!

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