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Thread: Roll up doors

  1. #41
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    Sounds like a driver training issue.
    Except when there's a mechanical failure of the latch.

    If the roadway is so narrow that an open compartment door is an obstruction, it should be closed down during operations anyway.
    Yes, because that's ALWAYS on option, isn't it?

    Hinge the door upwards, if that's an issue for you.
    Please show me a top-hinged door on a 60" tall compartment, and then we'll look into doing that.

    In the past we've used a device called a "shelf" to make all levels of a compartment usable -- even the upper parts.
    Small world, we bought some of those "shelf" things too. Found out that they work well. Nevertheless, has nothing to do with the myth of "wasted space" at the top of the compartment.

    Inertia is like that. Change sometimes comes along for its own sake and we wind up stuck with it.
    We're buying $1.5M worth of rigs per year, and review the specs annually with the direct input of the field personnel. You know what they've never asked for? Hinged doors. And keep in mind that about 100 of our 500 members are active volunteers in their own communities, so they're not simply brainwashed by what we've been purchasing for years...they actually do know the difference.
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  2. #42
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    Unlikely to understand what? Wasted compartment space is the same wherever you go.
    I'd love to see pictures of your compartments utilizing all that amazing space along the "ceiling" at the top front edge of a compartment.

    Still waiting to see any real benefits to hinged over roll up.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    I'd love to see pictures of your compartments utilizing all that amazing space along the "ceiling" at the top front edge of a compartment.

    Still waiting to see any real benefits to hinged over roll up.
    Beat me too it, I was think the same thing. Let's see these super efficient compartments!

    We've had no issues with our roll-up doors functioning and will not spec anything but in the future, sans the few smaller sized openings. Our crews wash or rinse apparatus after each run as needed and inspect and wipe the tracks as part of the weekly PM on each. We've yet to have an issue. We have replaced numerous hinges and hinged door holders (springs/piston style) on older pieces. You don't like them, fine, don't use them, it's that easy. For the record, ours are ROM as well.

  4. #44
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    Unlikely to understand what? Wasted compartment space is the same wherever you go.
    IF you spec the rig right, there isn't any wasted space. Where OUR roll up resides you wou need a Ladder to get to.So we wouldn't use the small amount of space the door takes up. T.C.

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    Forum Member DeputyMarshal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Except when there's a mechanical failure of the latch.
    And the latches on roll-ups never fail, right?

    Yes, because that's ALWAYS on option, isn't it?
    Why, as a matter of fact, yes, it is.

    Please show me a top-hinged door on a 60" tall compartment, and then we'll look into doing that.
    Or just design your layouts better so you don't need one on a 60" door.

    Nevertheless, has nothing to do with the myth of "wasted space" at the top of the compartment.
    There's no "myth" at all. The space reserved to store the rolled up door is lost space that could have been used to store equipment.

    You know what they've never asked for? Hinged doors.
    And your point is?
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  6. #46
    Forum Member DeputyMarshal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    I'd love to see pictures of your compartments utilizing all that amazing space along the "ceiling" at the top front edge of a compartment.
    I'd love to show them to you but We don't have any engines with real compartment doors left. The reserve ladder has hinged doors but, frankly, we never took advantage of the storage on that truck anyway. I do know that it had more usable storage space than its replacement which has roll-ups.
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    Forum Member DeputyMarshal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    IF you spec the rig right, there isn't any wasted space. Where OUR roll up resides you wou need a Ladder to get to.So we wouldn't use the small amount of space the door takes up. T.C.
    No, instead of wasted space you built an oversized compartment to store the compartment door.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    I'd love to show them to you but We don't have any engines with real compartment doors left. The reserve ladder has hinged doors but, frankly, we never took advantage of the storage on that truck anyway. I do know that it had more usable storage space than its replacement which has roll-ups.
    So what equipment couldn't you fit on the apparatus because of the roll up doors or is this some sort of academic discussion?
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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  9. #49
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    I know where I am from, the law enforment agencies do their best to keep that traffic flowing and not shut down the road. Seen videos of firefighters getting arrested for trying to shut down a lane.

    Latches do fail and pop open, even if you do check all the doors before pulling out. Much harder to get a roll up latch to fail unless you are jumping the rig or its get banged around alot. Not impossible but much harder.

    Seems to be more positives towards the roll ups. I use mostly all hinged which I do not have a problem with but I have seen the negatives from them first hand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    I'd love to show them to you but We don't have any engines with real compartment doors left. The reserve ladder has hinged doors but, frankly, we never took advantage of the storage on that truck anyway. I do know that it had more usable storage space than its replacement which has roll-ups.
    How conveeeeeenient!

  11. #51
    Forum Member DeputyMarshal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    So what equipment couldn't you fit on the apparatus because of the roll up doors or is this some sort of academic discussion?
    Chief, if your department has a surplus of compartment space on your apparatus, it's the only department I've ever known that could make that claim.
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    Chief, if your department has a surplus of compartment space on your apparatus, it's the only department I've ever known that could make that claim.
    True, but we don't leave anything at the firehouse when we pull out either.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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  13. #53
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    Chief, if your department has a surplus of compartment space on your apparatus, it's the only department I've ever known that could make that claim
    We can make that claim with our new ladder. Everything we need as a traditional truck company we have, and room for some specific equipment our department tasks our trucks to do.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    Chief, if your department has a surplus of compartment space on your apparatus, it's the only department I've ever known that could make that claim.
    I can make that same claim with both my departments. I know a number of others that can do the same.

    With the way they're building apparatus these days, I'm willing to bet it's more of the norm than in years past. It's not like 15-20 years ago when you commonly saw low-side compartments. I can't remember the last new truck I saw with low-sides. I'm sure they're out there, and I doubt I'd put a roll-up on a low-side, but I certainly wouldn't call them the norm.

    Engineers are doing wonderful things with what previously was wasted space. Take four SCBA bottles out of a compartment and put them in the wheelwells. Take the ladders off the side and put them through the tank or beside it. We'll take that oversized deisel genset and put on a compact hydraulic in the dunnage area. Oh, and let's build it a bit taller for even more room!

  15. #55
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    And your point is?
    That you live in a world in which you think you're always right.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal
    Chief, if your department has a surplus of compartment space on your apparatus, it's the only department I've ever known that could make that claim
    Count my department in too. We specificy our rigs with compartment space beyond what we currently need, knowing that the American fire service is constantly being tasked with additional responsibilities and the equipment that comes along with those responsibilities needs a place to be carried.

    As a note, we're still carry everything we need, even with "all that space" eaten up by the roll-up drum at the top of the compartment.
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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    No, instead of wasted space you built an oversized compartment to store the compartment door.
    Nope, built compartments to hold all the gear,plus future additions AND still have room for that lil roll of door. Aren't YOU glad we have CHOICES? We can all get what we want. BTW, we have ROM's and NO, we have NEVER had a latch fail. We're not going back to pan doors. Oh,we'll use 'em on real small compartments, but the Rollups are MUCH more practical for OUR operations. Keeping them working is pretty low key, a little lube now and again and a occasional cleaning. Not much different from a pan from what I can see. T.C.

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    My department has both style of doors in service on our various vehicles. Roll-ups on the pumpers, hinged slabs and pop-ups on our rescue and truck.

    I like the roll-ups over the hinged, but each has its place in my view. Sometimes its more practical to use a hinged door versus a roll-up, say in the instance of a truck. I'll give that the newer trucks I see have a combination of the two styles, but I just like the hinged on a truck. Also for taller doors, I think a hinged is a more functional option. Again, just my viewpoint.

    The roll-ups we use are ROM brand. As long as we keep the tracks clean and lubricated (dry lubricant), they work fine. Only real problem we've had is the sensor magnet in the handle popped loose once but it was an easy fix.

    On the hinged doors, problems we've had have ranged from the latches failing (quarter turn d-ring style) to the pop-up doors not staying raised. With those, its a matter of the gas-piston is shot/worn out or its the spring-latch that's worn out. Only other issue I've noticed is the larger doors can be quite heavy and any equipment mounted on them often has to have the mounting bolts checked that they aren't coming loose. Even with threadlocker on them, our rescue manages to pound a few loose over a month's time.

    Like I said, I feel they both have their place on vehicles.

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    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    Jeez...fightin' over what type of door is on the rig. Pathetic. The simple fact is it doesn't matter what kind of door a rig has...







    ...just as long as it's red and has smoothbore nozzles and 8 lb. axes behind it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Jeez...fightin' over what type of door is on the rig. Pathetic. The simple fact is it doesn't matter what kind of door a rig has...







    ...just as long as it's red and has smoothbore nozzles and 8 lb. axes behind it.
    wow, i almost forgot you "wuz from tha souf for a second".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yo View Post
    wow, i almost forgot you "wuz from tha souf for a second".
    Please hurry and be banned Yo and leave my Tennessee brothers alone while you are at it.

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