1. #1
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    Default Immature Explorers

    I live in a city of about 80,000,We had an orignal group of about 6 Explorers then we had an open house.A group of about 15 new explorers came,there all in Civil airpatrol togather and all very Immature.The department had Post Officer election 3 WEEKS after the open house! I was going to go for captians postion but one of the new guys got it because he got more votes.My explorer post has only been around for about two years But I did get LT postion. They dont like any of us Original guys and its almost like they want us out and them to be the only ones. Please help they dont take it serious,talk,laugh,and they all make fun of the fire service and talk about how there going into the Marines.How should this be handled? Thank you for the help!

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    Seems to me that you have a discipline problem that may start with your Explorer Advisor. That's just an outsider-looking-in though...
    "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

    Life on the Truck (Quint) is good.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyboy View Post
    Seems to me that you have a discipline problem that may start with your Explorer Advisor. That's just an outsider-looking-in though...
    Well we have never had a problem till now.We have 1 post advisor who is a firefighter and I thnk he doesnt want to be mean. (although its not) but some of the parents attend and he may be scard they'll report him or something. Thanks for your response!

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    umm...you don't have any requirements that an Explorer has to be a member for a certain amount of time before holding office???...I'd also be going to the Advisor....

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    Holding somebody accountable for their actions is not "mean." Actually, it's quite the opposite; if you like somebody you hold them accountable for their actions. Just like a parent does a child...

    As an Advisor, my 1st meeting is with the Parents. I tell them that when their kid(s) are under my care I will always have their best interests at heart, will never "set them up for failure" and will care for them the best and most appropriate that I can. I do this to take the "Parentitis" out of the situation (it works well for Public Sports also... LOL).

    If the Advisor is not going to do his Job after you go to them, then go above them. Being an effective Explorer Advisor is not always and easy thing. Don't get discouraged, hang in there...
    "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

    Life on the Truck (Quint) is good.....

    Eat til you're sleepy..... Sleep til you're hungry..... And repeat.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by pasobuff View Post
    umm...you don't have any requirements that an Explorer has to be a member for a certain amount of time before holding office???...I'd also be going to the Advisor....
    Thats what Im saying! how can you enter a post and after two weeks be named captian! They need to make it a rule that you have to be in it for an amount of time. I think I need to talk to the advisor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyboy View Post
    Holding somebody accountable for their actions is not "mean." Actually, it's quite the opposite; if you like somebody you hold them accountable for their actions. Just like a parent does a child...

    As an Advisor, my 1st meeting is with the Parents. I tell them that when their kid(s) are under my care I will always have their best interests at heart, will never "set them up for failure" and will care for them the best and most appropriate that I can. I do this to take the "Parentitis" out of the situation (it works well for Public Sports also... LOL).

    If the Advisor is not going to do his Job after you go to them, then go above them. Being an effective Explorer Advisor is not always and easy thing. Don't get discouraged, hang in there...
    Thanks for the input! Ill have to talk with my advisor.

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    Default a bit of personal advice

    All good advice for the Advisor. A little advice for you and your "Original guys":
    If you don't quit, they don't win.
    Your maturity will lead the group whether you have a position or not.
    If they are not serious about the department, they won't stay around long anyway. If they are, they will recognize you and your friends maturity as the better attitude in the end.

    Good Luck
    Kevin Sink
    Fair Grove Fire Dept.
    Thomasville, NC USA
    kevinsink@northstate.net

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    Your explorer post should have a schedule of its activities. Have one put together outlining the activities, such as meetings, training, etc.

    Set the schedule and go by it. If you have explorers that are not behaving, participating or other bad behavior, they should get a talking, too. In the fire service, we work as a team. The explorers need to learn this now and act like a team working together.

    What you may want to try and do for the election of officers, is qualify for your positions by testing. The questions can come out of an Essentials FF1 book or other fire service book. Of course, each member needs to have access to a copy. Since you are explorers, learning the FF1 requirements is needed, anyway. Even if you cannot be certified at your age, those of you that go into the fire service will need FF1 in the near future. Best to start now by studying the FF1 manual and practicing the evolutions (rope knots, etc.)

    Have the advisor give you the written test (FF1, etc.). The one that scores the highest, is given the highest office and so on, until the positions are filled. Retest and appoint officers every six months. This gives the explorers an incentive to study and a fair way of selecting offiers.

    Good luck in your endeavors!

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    Our junior firefighter program did not have officers..

    Is that really needed?
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Our junior firefighter program did not have officers..

    Is that really needed?
    If you have a small enough program I don't think it is needed, but as for larger programs it might be nice to have someone to help out the advisors if they are busy with other things. As long as they don't depend on the junior officers to do everything as far as planning and training.
    "A Brother Above All Else" ~Glen Schade

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    Sounds like you all needed to have a probationary period for your explorers. Seems a little odd for a junior program but that is how a lot of companies seem to do it. You start on a probationary period during which time you have no voting rights within your company.

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    I would have thought most programs would use an appointed position that the adviser would choose the officers based on qualifications and leadership ability. We do not have officers in our explorer program that I know of but we only have a handfull anyways. Our explorers train with us so its not like an explorer captain is going to do any command or anything like that when there are certified firefighters and certified officers around. Talk with the adviser and explain your concerns in a civil manner without turning it into a click war. You do not want to split up the members and make working together akward, but you have a good point.

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    The way we do it at our explorers is, The advisors and officers all decide on who gets promoted and who dosnt that way its not a popularity contest.

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    WHOAHHH not good! Time for your explorer advisor or chief to intervene!
    Explorer Assistant Chief Alisha Fern

    Leadership: The ability to guide, direct, and influence others.

    Leadership can be thought of as a capacity to define oneself to others in a way that clarifies and expands a vision of the future.


    alisha.fern@firehousemail.com

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    Yall voted for officers? That's just a popularity contest. You should have asked your advisors to appoint (or even nominate) officers. That's what my post did, and it's worked out pretty well.

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    Default ya

    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer LT View Post
    I live in a city of about 80,000,We had an orignal group of about 6 Explorers then we had an open house.A group of about 15 new explorers came,there all in Civil airpatrol togather and all very Immature.The department had Post Officer election 3 WEEKS after the open house! I was going to go for captians postion but one of the new guys got it because he got more votes.My explorer post has only been around for about two years But I did get LT postion. They dont like any of us Original guys and its almost like they want us out and them to be the only ones. Please help they dont take it serious,talk,laugh,and they all make fun of the fire service and talk about how there going into the Marines.How should this be handled? Thank you for the help!
    our post has had a few prob also

    trust me dont let them win i used to be explorer president i got tossed in to the spot after the one resigned next thing i new i was letting people get away with stuff but i quickly took a hold of things and cracked down to the point people who were not officers hated me some times me and this one explorer tout he was above me even know i was a officer he kept trying to give me orders so me and him used to but heads but ya i new i was doing my job when people hated me some times

    i was suppose to be president of the post agen but the kid i away butted heads with got it and i was suppose to get lieutenant but i resigned 3 days later but yes we kind of have a listening prob in our post we got like 25 explorers expected to rise every month at least we keep getting 2 new explorers a month so were running out of gear and the explorers are fighting over who gears better and who gets what the current officers of the post arnt doing any thing about it but i tend to step in and stop the fight even know im no longer a officer and im getting sworn in to the dept in march on the 7th so I cant wait to get out of the explorer post

    also out officers have to go throw a election every year
    Last edited by BFDFirefighter418; 02-20-2011 at 08:53 PM.
    Explorer Lieutenant
    2011 - 2011 - 3 days
    Explorer President
    2008 - 2011
    Fire Explorer
    2005 - 2011
    Volunteer Firefighter
    March 7th -?????

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    Say what? Grammar and punctuation are your friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Our junior firefighter program did not have officers..

    Is that really needed?
    Probably not. Though ours does have SOGs for officers to be implemented when numbers get high enough. I'm the current Lieutenant after taking over this year. Position is held for a year, and then it goes up for election again. It somewhat does come out as a popularity contest, but once you get the position, you are given responsibilities. It's more to teach leadership than anything else.

    Original Topic--
    I'd say (as has been said already) go to your advisor, ask them to sit down with you to talk. Lay it all out, explain your concerns, and see how it goes.

    I currently have an explorer that's causing some "issues". Mostly just talking and making comments that are completely un-needed, trying to make a joke out of everything, or even trying to "insult" one of the advisors. It's all things that you get in the fire service, nothing harsh, but it shows a HEAVY lack of respect towards the advisor.

    I've had a couple talks with my advisor about him, and it's really been pushed aside. It's not much of an issue currently because he's usually not at trainings due to basketball practice being at the same time. However, when it does become an issue, it's there in full force.

    But I digress - Talk with your advisor, if something isn't done about it in a reasonable amount of time, go a step higher. Something should be done, because if they act like that here, they'll get a rude awakening in the Marines.
    Mike Kelly
    Altoona Fire Department
    Explorer Post 800
    Altoona, Wisconsin

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    I am the Senior Instructor/Advisor for San Jose Fire Department in San Jose. We have implemented a promotional system based on merit and experience. The minimum requirement is 1 year in the program (6 months didactic, 6 months field), participation in our recruit demonstration, successful passing of a 250 question Captains exam (5 essay questions, graded on punctuation, spelling and sentence structure) manipulative exam ( SCBA 1 minute or less, 24' extension ladder, 1 3/4" hoseline shoulder load to 3rd floor of the tower, ropes and knots manipulative, etc.) and an oral interview given by active duty line personnel. You are then ranked by score. Responsibility includes assignment to a Truck or Engine, attendence of your personnel, appointment of a Lieutenant (or engineer in our case), safety of your crew on drills, organization of drill materials and fundraising. etc. So as you can see, responsibility is earned....not politically appointed. Just like it should be in an active department.

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    Much like sjmedic2003 points out, our SOP states that our "Levels" for Explorers are performance, training and experience based. Makes it "black and white" for us.....

    How's your Post doing? Things get straightened-out (not looking for details just hope that the problem was corrected)?
    "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

    Life on the Truck (Quint) is good.....

    Eat til you're sleepy..... Sleep til you're hungry..... And repeat.....

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    It sounds like its time to crack down. dont worry about"being Mean". If they think discipline = mean than these are not guys we want in the fire service. if these guys honestly want to be firemen they're going to have to learn to be professional. if they leave its better for the program. and if you run into issues with the parents have an advisor explain why disciplinary measures are necessary.
    Hope this helps

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