1. #1
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    Default Leather chin strap goodness! :cool:

    Recently, there was a thread on here with a member looking for a leather chin strap and Snowball suggested 5 Alarm Leather.com as a source for one. I bit the bullet and ordered-up one of those baby's for myself and I received it today and installed it on my N6A Sam Houston..


    First of all, I am in NO way connected or work for 5 Alarm Leather.. Just a firefighter that was looking for a leather alternative to the nomex chin strap..

    This thing is awesome compared to the standard nomex strap that I had.. I don't see where it is uncomfortable to wear.. The leather strap feels better on my chin. I never liked the way the nomex strap felt when it was cinched down snug on my mug.. seemed to bite in more ( on my jaw bone) where this leather strap seems to spread the contact area on my chin out evenly.

    Leather seems supple enough and it looks and appears well-made.. Offered in two colors.. black and brown. The strap seems to be, maybe, 7 - 9 oz. leather (?) About the same thickness as a nice quality leather belt.

    Instal was a breeze once I removed the factory strap. It is made with the same quality parts (quick release buckle and postmans slide) as the factory Cairnes and it comes with a black quick release buckle.

    The end of the strap has a metal "rivet" stud to facilitate as a stop to help keep the end from slipping through the postman's slide

    The only thing that I see that firefighters might not like about this product is the way the "tail" hangs loose past the postman's slide. It has no velcro to hold it against the "working end" of the chin strap.. I don't mind this at all and this seems to be a personal preference issue I would think..

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    One quick note of a few other observations...

    When the nomex chin strap is in the "informal" configuration ( loosened when not wearing a mask ), I hated the fact that when I was working with my head bent forward and down, the nomex chin strap would swing forward and right into my line of site blocking what I was looking at (rolling hoses etc.) .. frustrated the crap out of me to say the least..

    With this leather chin strap, it never swings into my line of site due to the more substantial construction of the strap and how it relates to the attachment points on the helmet... I found that very neat and useful.

    Also, I noticed quicker and more positive results when it came to blindly hooking the buckle with the helmet on as you would when being quick and wearing an SCBA mask. I didn't need to be careful about hooking a twisted buckle like you do when hooking a nomex one (we all remember those FF1 timed donning drills? hehehe) very positive and seems like it works with you..

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkullKrusher2010 View Post
    Instal was a breeze once I removed the factory strap. It is made with the same quality parts (quick release buckle and postmans slide) as the factory Cairnes and it comes with a black quick release buckle.
    Before you begin modifying your PPE, you should check with both the manufacturer of the modified part and the Cairns, the helmet maker (as mentioned in your post) to ensure you are not voiding any warranties. Additionally, most PPE manufacturers will likely try place blame for any injuries (whether the modified part had anything to do with your injury/incident) on you and/or the person modifying the gear.

    In my department (and unfortunately, many others around me), Worker's Comp will do everything in their power to keep from having to pay a claim. Aside from NOT wearing your PPE, modifying it provides all the fodder they need to place blame on you for not following the manufacturer's recommendations and/or using "approved" parts to modify or service your equipment.
    DFW



    "There's no such thing as a free lunch."

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    What is a chin strap?

    Oh, someone told me, it is the burnt up piece of fabric on the brim of my helmet.

    Sorry, couldn't resist.

    Also related... http://www.facebook.com/ExcessiveLea...orFirefighters
    ~Drew
    Firefighter/EMT/Technical Rescue
    USAR TF Rescue Specialist

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfwfirefighter View Post
    Before you begin modifying your PPE, you should check with both the manufacturer of the modified part and the Cairns, the helmet maker (as mentioned in your post) to ensure you are not voiding any warranties. Additionally, most PPE manufacturers will likely try place blame for any injuries (whether the modified part had anything to do with your injury/incident) on you and/or the person modifying the gear.

    In my department (and unfortunately, many others around me), Worker's Comp will do everything in their power to keep from having to pay a claim. Aside from NOT wearing your PPE, modifying it provides all the fodder they need to place blame on you for not following the manufacturer's recommendations and/or using "approved" parts to modify or service your equipment.
    Please save us the safety sallie bs Chief.

    Name one example and provide proof where workers comp, insurance, or any other benificiary type organization has NOT paid a claim because of ANY example like ones you are proposing.

    Good luck.
    RK
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    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FiremanLyman View Post
    What is a chin strap?

    Oh, someone told me, it is the burnt up piece of fabric on the brim of my helmet.
    Oh.. That's supposed to go on your chin? Shiiii.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Please save us the safety sallie bs Chief.

    Name one example and provide proof where workers comp, insurance, or any other benificiary type organization has NOT paid a claim because of ANY example like ones you are proposing.

    Good luck.
    Have you ever read that literature that comes with your PPE? The "do not modify our stuff" clause is pretty much standard.

    As far as Workers' Comp not paying claims for folks not wearing their appropriate PPE in a fashion recommended and/or modifying it in a manner approved by the manufacturer, I am guessing that practice has not made it to Memphis yet.

    If you think I am being overly cautious, Safety Sally, and/or (insert other safety-related term here), feel free to roll the dice, brother.

    I hope you have some cash saved up.
    Last edited by dfwfirefighter; 01-17-2011 at 11:21 PM.
    DFW



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    The reason why I wrote this thread was to do a "product critique" in case anyone wanted to look into getting a leather chin strap from this company.. plain and simple.

    I would/will trust this leather over any nomex.. Just my observations

    But, I do appreciate your opinion though.. Do you have any input on any leather chin straps failing and causing bodily injury? Nomex VS leather - Thoughts?

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    I dont wear my chin strap because it makes me look cooler not too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfwfirefighter View Post
    Have you ever read that literature that comes with your PPE? The "do not modify our stuff" clause is pretty much standard.

    As far as Workers' Comp not paying claims for folks not wearing their appropriate PPE in a fashion recommended and/or modifying it in a manner approved by the manufacturer, I am guessing that practice has not made it to Memphis yet.

    If you think I am being overly cautious, Safety Sally, and/or (insert other safety-related term here), feel free to roll the dice, brother.

    I hope you have some cash saved up.
    Memphis asked you to quote just one example...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Memphis asked you to quote just one example...
    Should be interesting.

    I wear mine because having my helmet fall off is aggravating. However, when not interior or performing any other function where my helmet won't have the chance of falling off, the chin strap is clipped around the back of the ratchet on both of my N6As. I think this method would have solved the OP's line of sight while bent over issue.
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    Just an abridged note, workers comp will pay, but if it is determined, with lawyers, doctors, court time, etc., that the injury was due to a failure in the organization to enforce proper guidelines for work environment and safety concerns then the workers compensation rates will go up for the organization. If the employee is found at fault, workers comp will still pay, but the employee could possibly be terminated.

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    If I have to worry about a chin strap hurting me, I have bigger problems in my life... I'm a volunteer and I have my own insurance as a state employee.. BUT, I do understand the angle you are coming from.. but also, if everyone is soo worried about "what if ?", why do we do the crazy things that we do as firefighters? Like climbing all over a snow-packed, iced-up roof in -10 degree weather in the middle of the night fiddling with chains during a chimney fire?
    Last edited by SkullKrusher2010; 01-18-2011 at 12:30 PM. Reason: editing out stupid things

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkullKrusher2010 View Post
    If I have to worry about a chin strap hurting me, I have bigger problems in my life... I'm a volunteer and I have my own insurance as a state employee.. BUT, I do understand the angle you are coming from.. but also, if everyone is soo worried about "what if ?", why do we do the crazy things that we do as firefighters? Like climbing all over a snow-packed, iced-up roof in -10 degree weather in the middle of the night fiddling with chains during a chimney fire?
    Krusher,
    Just to clarify, I know at my end of the state and I believe state wide Volunteer fire departments are covered by Compensation. You might want to look into that, if for no other reason than to figure out who will be paying your medical costs should you get injured while on a call. I am pretty sure VFDs in NY are considered employers as far as Comp is conserned.
    Shawn M. Cecula
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Should be interesting.

    I wear mine because having my helmet fall off is aggravating. However, when not interior or performing any other function where my helmet won't have the chance of falling off, the chin strap is clipped around the back of the ratchet on both of my N6As. I think this method would have solved the OP's line of sight while bent over issue.
    Your leather has a Ratchet?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Please save us the safety sallie bs Chief.

    Name one example and provide proof where workers comp, insurance, or any other benificiary type organization has NOT paid a claim because of ANY example like ones you are proposing.

    Good luck.
    I've been asking this since I came on these boards. No one has EVER given me one example.
    Not even a BS one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfwfirefighter View Post
    Have you ever read that literature that comes with your PPE? The "do not modify our stuff" clause is pretty much standard.

    As far as Workers' Comp not paying claims for folks not wearing their appropriate PPE in a fashion recommended and/or modifying it in a manner approved by the manufacturer, I am guessing that practice has not made it to Memphis yet.

    If you think I am being overly cautious, Safety Sally, and/or (insert other safety-related term here), feel free to roll the dice, brother.

    I hope you have some cash saved up.
    SERIOUSLY?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewiston2FF View Post
    Krusher,
    Just to clarify, I know at my end of the state and I believe state wide Volunteer fire departments are covered by Compensation. You might want to look into that, if for no other reason than to figure out who will be paying your medical costs should you get injured while on a call. I am pretty sure VFDs in NY are considered employers as far as Comp is conserned.
    I believe you are right.. Even though we are vollies and not paid per-say , we fall in that "employee" bubble because of certain benefits like comp and such..am I right?

    But, heck, I am made of Unobtainium and indestructible, by golly!

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    All the helmets that I have worn had chin straps. The were nice I guess, either made from leather, rubber, elastic or some type of webbing.

    They way were placed either on the from brem or the rear portion of the helmet.

    If the helmet fits you noggin, you don't need a strap rubbing you chin raw.

    I may sometime for some unknown reason had the sucker under my neck. The worst we ever had was the one with a chin cup on the old tupperware phoenix style cairns lid.

    I guess I learned not to have a helmet strap affixed under my chin from when I was in the Army. I never desired to be choked!


    DFWFF, I never had a problem with workers comp in the years I was on the job. Must be a texas thing.

    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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