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  1. #1
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    Default Innovation - Latest new developments in aerial ladder Safety

    It was brought to my attention that there has been a large number of innovations implemented by an aerial manufacturer that provides a greater safety factor in the operation of aerials and platforms. Are these implementations available from all other manufacturers. 1st, "Soft Touch Controls" which allowes the rise-lower, extend-retract, and right-left rotation of the aerial to come to a smooth stop without any vibrations or jerking motion. 2nd, "Short Jack Capabilities" When the aerial comes off the short jack side of the aerial it will come to a stop like all other aerials. The operator will without any assist from another person, retract and raze the aerial allowing it to move into a position and used as a water tower. If the operator tries to lower the aerial it will come to a stop before it gets into an unsafe condition. If an aerial or platform apparatus is in a position blocking another vehicle from being placed on the fire ground, an outgigger can be retracted without effecting the operation of the existing aerial allowing the truck to pass. 3rd, "Auto Bedding" Activation of a momentary switch when the aerial or platform is within 20 degrees left or right of the ladder bed will automatically bed the aerial. 4th, "Rung Alignment" A yellow indicator light shall illuminate when the rungs are aligned that will assist in a safe manner of climbing the ladder. 5th, "Cab/Body Aerial Collision Protection" The right/left rotation and down motion of the aerial shall be disabled if the aerial comes near the body.
    6th, "Outrigger Safety Pins" The jack tube cylinders are drilled so that a steel safety pin can be placed into the tube preventing an outrigger collapse should a hydraulic failure occur. 7th, "Galvanized Aerial" A galvanized steel corrosion protection is applied and shall permeate the aerial both inside and out. This process sets a standard establishing a 25 year warenty. The process also provides a standard 20 year structural warranty. From what I have been told, painting over the galvanized steel aerial is an option. 8th, "Right Side Hose Bed" Preventing injury to firefighters falling from the apparatus, the right side hose bed is hydraulic operated lowering the bed to street level. 9th, "Galvanized Outriggers and Torque Box" This feature is suppose to be a standard in order to minimized corrosion to the area's supporting the aerial/platform. Hopefully all of these features are available from all other manufacturers.


    "Galvanized Outriggers and Torque Box"


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    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    RETRACT an outrigger with the aerial OUT of the cradle? Unless it's straight out of the cradle(no left or right swing) NO THANKS! Depending on position,that's a recipe for disaster. And YES,our Tower has the other features,the rung align is green instead of yellow. T.C.

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    MembersZone Subscriber npfd801's Avatar
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    Someone has been reading the Rosenbauer/RK literature...
    "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

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    Quote Originally Posted by npfd801 View Post
    Someone has been reading the Rosenbauer/RK literature...
    I agree.....

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    Or has started selling for them....

  6. #6
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retiredchiefone View Post
    It was brought to my attention that there has been a large number of innovations implemented by an aerial manufacturer that provides a greater safety factor in the operation of aerials and platforms. Are these implementations available from all other manufacturers. 1st, "Soft Touch Controls" which allowes the rise-lower, extend-retract, and right-left rotation of the aerial to come to a smooth stop without any vibrations or jerking motion. 2nd, "Short Jack Capabilities" When the aerial comes off the short jack side of the aerial it will come to a stop like all other aerials. The operator will without any assist from another person, retract and raze the aerial allowing it to move into a position and used as a water tower. If the operator tries to lower the aerial it will come to a stop before it gets into an unsafe condition. If an aerial or platform apparatus is in a position blocking another vehicle from being placed on the fire ground, an outgigger can be retracted without effecting the operation of the existing aerial allowing the truck to pass. 3rd, "Auto Bedding" Activation of a momentary switch when the aerial or platform is within 20 degrees left or right of the ladder bed will automatically bed the aerial. 4th, "Rung Alignment" A yellow indicator light shall illuminate when the rungs are aligned that will assist in a safe manner of climbing the ladder. 5th, "Cab/Body Aerial Collision Protection" The right/left rotation and down motion of the aerial shall be disabled if the aerial comes near the body.
    6th, "Outrigger Safety Pins" The jack tube cylinders are drilled so that a steel safety pin can be placed into the tube preventing an outrigger collapse should a hydraulic failure occur. 7th, "Galvanized Aerial" A galvanized steel corrosion protection is applied and shall permeate the aerial both inside and out. This process sets a standard establishing a 25 year warenty. The process also provides a standard 20 year structural warranty. From what I have been told, painting over the galvanized steel aerial is an option. 8th, "Right Side Hose Bed" Preventing injury to firefighters falling from the apparatus, the right side hose bed is hydraulic operated lowering the bed to street level. 9th, "Galvanized Outriggers and Torque Box" This feature is suppose to be a standard in order to minimized corrosion to the area's supporting the aerial/platform. Hopefully all of these features are available from all other manufacturers.
    Already been done by at least two other Mrf's that I know of.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  7. #7
    Forum Member MemphisE34a's Avatar
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    Better brakes!!!!
    Robert Kramer
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by retiredchiefone View Post
    It was brought to my attention that there has been a large number of innovations implemented by an aerial manufacturer that provides a greater safety factor in the operation of aerials and platforms. Are these implementations available from all other manufacturers. 1st, "Soft Touch Controls" which allowes the rise-lower, extend-retract, and right-left rotation of the aerial to come to a smooth stop without any vibrations or jerking motion. 2nd, "Short Jack Capabilities" When the aerial comes off the short jack side of the aerial it will come to a stop like all other aerials. The operator will without any assist from another person, retract and raze the aerial allowing it to move into a position and used as a water tower. If the operator tries to lower the aerial it will come to a stop before it gets into an unsafe condition. If an aerial or platform apparatus is in a position blocking another vehicle from being placed on the fire ground, an outgigger can be retracted without effecting the operation of the existing aerial allowing the truck to pass. 3rd, "Auto Bedding" Activation of a momentary switch when the aerial or platform is within 20 degrees left or right of the ladder bed will automatically bed the aerial. 4th, "Rung Alignment" A yellow indicator light shall illuminate when the rungs are aligned that will assist in a safe manner of climbing the ladder. 5th, "Cab/Body Aerial Collision Protection" The right/left rotation and down motion of the aerial shall be disabled if the aerial comes near the body.
    6th, "Outrigger Safety Pins" The jack tube cylinders are drilled so that a steel safety pin can be placed into the tube preventing an outrigger collapse should a hydraulic failure occur. 7th, "Galvanized Aerial" A galvanized steel corrosion protection is applied and shall permeate the aerial both inside and out. This process sets a standard establishing a 25 year warenty. The process also provides a standard 20 year structural warranty. From what I have been told, painting over the galvanized steel aerial is an option. 8th, "Right Side Hose Bed" Preventing injury to firefighters falling from the apparatus, the right side hose bed is hydraulic operated lowering the bed to street level. 9th, "Galvanized Outriggers and Torque Box" This feature is suppose to be a standard in order to minimized corrosion to the area's supporting the aerial/platform. Hopefully all of these features are available from all other manufacturers.


    "Galvanized Outriggers and Torque Box"

    Most of what is in your post is offered by most aerial manufacturers. If I am correct the galvanized aerial, outriggers and torque box are made by RK/Rosenbaurer only. LTI use to offer a 20 year structural warranty on there
    aerials

    Chief1ff
    Mark

  9. #9
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    A 100' platform with a 180-inch WB and a 300-inch OAL with no front or rear overhang. The name of the builder escapes me?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Command6 View Post
    A 100' platform with a 180-inch WB and a 300-inch OAL with no front or rear overhang. The name of the builder escapes me?
    Steeldraulics, maybe? They were somewhere around Chambersburg, Pa. Built one ladder, maybe one or two engines, then went out of business. I think the ladder's still around, somewhere in south central Pennsylvania. Ditto an engine. Anyone got any more accurate info?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefengineer11 View Post
    Steeldraulics, maybe? They were somewhere around Chambersburg, Pa. Built one ladder, maybe one or two engines, then went out of business. I think the ladder's still around, somewhere in south central Pennsylvania. Ditto an engine. Anyone got any more accurate info?
    The only Steeldraulics ladder I ever saw was in Indianapolis.

    From what I know of that company safety features were not a priority.
    Last edited by firepundit; 01-24-2011 at 05:44 PM.

  12. #12
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    Outrigger pins have been around for years. Off the top of my head, Pierce, Smeal, KME, and Ferrara all have that feature. Our Aerial Innovations ladder does not- they use a positive pressure lock. It takes hydraulic pressure to open the valve to raise the jacks, so a total hydraulic failure wouldn't cause the jacks to fail. There is a manual bypass somewhere- just in case- so you can move the truck to a shop after a failure.

    Right side hosebeds are common now too. It didn't take depts long to find how badly most of the chute arrangements on quints sucked. A quint that can't lay hose is severely handicapped! Most are just strait rectangular beds along one or both sides of the truck. E-one, KME, and Ferrara all have this option, as does Smeal. I believe Smeal also offers a powered version like you posted about. They also offer the through the body Ergonomic hosebed- which is a hydraulic tray. Our RD Murray Quint has a left side hosebed that runs strait behind the driver's high sides. It lays out ok, but reloading is a PITA!!! It requires a pike pole to feed the 5" under the turntable... The newer designs are wider, and replace the high sides, making that task a good bit easier. Notching the turntable helps, too.

    From reading manuf's literature, I believe the rung indicator is offered by a growing number of builders. Either as standard, or as a popular option.

    Likewise soft touch controls. I want to say KME? touts this feature on their aerialcats. I think Ferrara and Smeal offer a somewhat similar feature to make for less jerky movements- particularly when fine tuning your spot up against a building. Makes a lot of sense to me!

    Gotta agree with the others on the short jack issue- no friggin way! Our rig will let you short jack one side and operate off the other side, but NOT off the short jacked side!!

    Never heard of auto bedding. Interlocks to prevent you from hitting the truck, yes. Sensors to tell you when you're lined up with and in the cradle, yes. But not a truck that'll do it for you...

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber npfd801's Avatar
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    The list is definitely a Rosenbauer list. While others offer just about everything else, the combination on one particular rig woud have to be Rosenbauer.

    Others are doing galvanized subframe and outriggers, but RK (Rosenbauer) is the only one doing hot dipped galvanized aerials, which you can now get painted over if you can't stand the looks.
    "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

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    MembersZone Subscriber npfd801's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Command6 View Post
    A 100' platform with a 180-inch WB and a 300-inch OAL with no front or rear overhang. The name of the builder escapes me?
    Metz? Maybe I'm being Captain Obvious and missing a tongue in cheek moment...
    "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by npfd801 View Post
    Metz? Maybe I'm being Captain Obvious and missing a tongue in cheek moment...
    Why didn't I think of that? Tony, where are you?

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    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    Honestly I think this guy is just on drugs based on how his post is written.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  17. #17
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nozzle nut 22 View Post
    Outrigger pins have been around for years. Off the top of my head, Pierce, Smeal, KME, and Ferrara all have that feature. Our Aerial Innovations ladder does not- they use a positive pressure lock. It takes hydraulic pressure to open the valve to raise the jacks, so a total hydraulic failure wouldn't cause the jacks to fail. There is a manual bypass somewhere- just in case- so you can move the truck to a shop after a failure.

    Right side hosebeds are common now too. It didn't take depts long to find how badly most of the chute arrangements on quints sucked. A quint that can't lay hose is severely handicapped! Most are just strait rectangular beds along one or both sides of the truck. E-one, KME, and Ferrara all have this option, as does Smeal. I believe Smeal also offers a powered version like you posted about. They also offer the through the body Ergonomic hosebed- which is a hydraulic tray. Our RD Murray Quint has a left side hosebed that runs strait behind the driver's high sides. It lays out ok, but reloading is a PITA!!! It requires a pike pole to feed the 5" under the turntable... The newer designs are wider, and replace the high sides, making that task a good bit easier. Notching the turntable helps, too.

    From reading manuf's literature, I believe the rung indicator is offered by a growing number of builders. Either as standard, or as a popular option.

    Likewise soft touch controls. I want to say KME? touts this feature on their aerialcats. I think Ferrara and Smeal offer a somewhat similar feature to make for less jerky movements- particularly when fine tuning your spot up against a building. Makes a lot of sense to me!

    Gotta agree with the others on the short jack issue- no friggin way! Our rig will let you short jack one side and operate off the other side, but NOT off the short jacked side!!

    Never heard of auto bedding. Interlocks to prevent you from hitting the truck, yes. Sensors to tell you when you're lined up with and in the cradle, yes. But not a truck that'll do it for you...
    Smeal/Ferrara SAME unit minus a couple widgets on the Ferrara. Outriggers on these units have BOTH hydraulic locks AND are pinnable.YES,they both have ramped(easy touch)controls. The only ladder(modern) I've ever seen truly operate over the short jacked side IS the Metz. T.C.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by retiredchiefone View Post
    If an aerial or platform apparatus is in a position blocking another vehicle from being placed on the fire ground, an outgigger can be retracted without effecting the operation of the existing aerial allowing the truck to pass.
    This is just a ridiculous engineering waste. Retract an outrigger while flying the aerial? No F***ing way! Talk about engineering something to correct a non-existent problem.

    IMO the electronic controls allowing the aerial to work within a "safe envelope" while short-jacked tips the scale of risk-benefit the wrong way. When, yes when, the electronics fail what will happen? To risk is too great as compared with proper setting of the truck short-jack only to the outboard side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Smeal/Ferrara SAME unit minus a couple widgets on the Ferrara. Outriggers on these units have BOTH hydraulic locks AND are pinnable.YES,they both have ramped(easy touch)controls. The only ladder(modern) I've ever seen truly operate over the short jacked side IS the Metz. T.C.
    Didn't know they used both systems- but I like the idea! I knew FFA used Smeal built ladders- a plus in my book- they do have their own body systems and options. I was just answering the OP's question, that yes, there are other builders offering those features/options.

    Metz pretty much uses a completely different concept, don't they.

  20. #20
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nozzle nut 22 View Post
    Didn't know they used both systems- but I like the idea! I knew FFA used Smeal built ladders- a plus in my book- they do have their own body systems and options. I was just answering the OP's question, that yes, there are other builders offering those features/options.

    Metz pretty much uses a completely different concept, don't they.
    I've GOT a Smeal so I'm familiar with the works. I spend some of my spare time working with the Metz team, it's an amazing machine. It has the ability to do setups and "tricks" no American Ladder I'm familiar with can do. Operation over the short jack side, auto return to preset locations,FASTEST set up time in the industry.

    If you get a chance to make a show where Tony( Talimonte)is showing the Metz,have him put it thru the paces for you. They are ONE, Tony and the Metz. Ya, it's a different concept but if you can get by the bigger is better syndrome,they bear a look.

    That being said, I have NO issues at all with our Smeal. The folks at the Factory have bent over backwards to help us optimise the stuff we can do with this machine. They KNOW their product and the pride and support show all the way thru. We are STILL learning all the stuff we can do that we couldn't do with our old Ladder. We're getting Great service thru our dealer, New England Fire equipment and apparatus.These are rugged, well built apparatus that are set up so they are easy to service. I'm waiting to see how the sticks hold up in FDNY service. T.C.

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