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Thread: SaberJet Nozzle

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    Default SaberJet Nozzle

    Our Fire Chief recently purchased a single shut off 2.5 inch 100 psi Saber Jet Nozzle which has not been put into service. Our facility will, in the near future, be bringing an inline fire pump online to charge the fire protection grid. Pressure at the tip is expected to be around 100 to 120 psi. If the nozzle man is flowing the nozzle on the fog setting and switches over to the smoothbore setting, will the nozzle reaction be too much for him to handle? Are there other things he should be concerned about? I don't have any experience with SB nozzles so any help would be appreciated.


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    Guess they are out there, but I have never seen a 2 1/2" nozzle pumped at 100psi unless it was attached to a deck gun and/or ladder pipe.

    1 3/4" yes, 2 1/2" no.
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    please tell me the size of the orifice on the saberjet, they are typically 7/8, 15/16, 1" and possibly 1 and 1/8". that is very tell tale of the reaction force.

    depending on the flow, the friction loss in the hoses will occur dropping the nozzle pressure (all dependent on the flow). also what is the length of fire hose used.

    once we find the orifice size, length of hose, and outlet pressure then i can help you.
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    Reaction force on a solid bore nozzle is - 1.5 x Nozzle Diameter squared times nozzle pressure. So a 1" nozzle at 50 psi nozzle pressure is 75 lbs. That 1" nozzle at 100 psi will have a 150 lb. reaction. For the fog nozzle the reaction force is almost 1/2 the gpms being delivered so a 250 gpm fog on straight stream has a reaction of 125 lbs. Since switching from 250 gpm fog to a 1" solid bore will cause an increase in flow, you will get slightly more friction loss in the hose, thus cutting the potential 300 gpm flow back to around 275 gpm and the reaction force back from 150 lbs to around 137 lbs. You don't specify the stationary pump pressures being supplied to the system nor the length of 2 1/2" hose attached to the hydrant or standpipe, so exact calculations are impossible. My best guess is above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by emtiv1998 View Post
    Our Fire Chief recently purchased a single shut off 2.5 inch 100 psi Saber Jet Nozzle which has not been put into service. Our facility will, in the near future, be bringing an inline fire pump online to charge the fire protection grid. Pressure at the tip is expected to be around 100 to 120 psi. If the nozzle man is flowing the nozzle on the fog setting and switches over to the smoothbore setting, will the nozzle reaction be too much for him to handle? Are there other things he should be concerned about? I don't have any experience with SB nozzles so any help would be appreciated.
    We've had some SabreJet nozzles for a couple of years now, I think we have the single shut off models. If your 2-1/2 model operates the same as our 1-3/4 models, then you won't be switching between fog and smoothbore in your fire attack. The fog setting operates at 100psi NP and the smoothbore at 50psi NP. However, the main reason you won't be switching is because the fog setting does not get tight enough for fire attack. At least with our models, you can't get a "straight stream", a narrow fog is the best you can do.

    As for the handling question, considering that the NP for fog is twice that for the smoothbore, I'd imagine that there is a good chance that nozzleman could have trouble if the pump discharge pressure isn't reduced correspondingly.

    Since you say it's a 2-1/2 nozzle, hopefully your tip insert is greater than 1" instead of only 7/8" like on our new 2-1/2 nozzle. I asked the person responsible for that selection if this was a mistake and was told that it was not a mistake. He didn't seem to think it was a problem that our small handline nozzles had bigger orifices (15/16 and 1") than the 2-1/2 (7/8").

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Guess they are out there, but I have never seen a 2 1/2" nozzle pumped at 100psi unless it was attached to a deck gun and/or ladder pipe.

    1 3/4" yes, 2 1/2" no.
    They're actually pretty common. Until the recent introduction of "low pressure" fog nozzles, anybody using a fog nozzle on a 2-1/2 was using a 100psi nozzle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by emtiv1998 View Post
    Our Fire Chief recently purchased a single shut off 2.5 inch 100 psi Saber Jet Nozzle which has not been put into service. Our facility will, in the near future, be bringing an inline fire pump online to charge the fire protection grid. Pressure at the tip is expected to be around 100 to 120 psi. If the nozzle man is flowing the nozzle on the fog setting and switches over to the smoothbore setting, will the nozzle reaction be too much for him to handle? Are there other things he should be concerned about? I don't have any experience with SB nozzles so any help would be appreciated.
    A little more information:

    The nozzle has a 1" smoothbore tip;

    The fog nozzle markings indicate it will flow 135 gpm at 100 psi (which I know is a crappy flow rate for a bigger line);

    I'd estimate the hose lay will be between 50 to 100 feet of 2.5;

    The pumps are stationary fire pumps to charge the fire protection grid. I don't anticipate anyone being there to adjust the pump output. I suppose you could gate it down from an appliance at the hydrant if you switched from a fog to a SB but really don't see that happening.

    Hope this helps and thanks for the feedback.

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    Quote Originally Posted by emtiv1998 View Post
    A little more information:

    The nozzle has a 1" smoothbore tip;

    The fog nozzle markings indicate it will flow 135 gpm at 100 psi (which I know is a crappy flow rate for a bigger line);

    I'd estimate the hose lay will be between 50 to 100 feet of 2.5;
    That's one useless nozzle I'd say. Maybe put a 2.5" to 1.5" reducer on it and stick it on the end of some 1.75" hose and at least you'd be somewhat matched up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by emtiv1998 View Post
    Our Fire Chief recently purchased a single shut off 2.5 inch 100 psi Saber Jet Nozzle which has not been put into service. Our facility will, in the near future, be bringing an inline fire pump online to charge the fire protection grid. .
    Change the base to a 1.5" base or adapter and go with 200' of 2" Hose. 100-120 PSI at the hydrant, a short section of 2.5/3" hose, and wye and you're all set. The 1" tip and 2" hose will give you about 24 PSI at 206 GPM. This set up is like the old 2.5" Navy without the weight. 'Course you don't have the applicator or foam attachment to go with it.

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    We have one of these nozzles on a front trash line and everyone hates it. I personally don't like them for the simple fact that they pretty much take every basic nozzle handling technique and throw it out the window. No more all the way open, all the way closed. No more right to fight. Unless you are trained on them extensively, they are an accident waiting to happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by emtiv1998 View Post
    A little more information:

    The nozzle has a 1" smoothbore tip;

    The fog nozzle markings indicate it will flow 135 gpm at 100 psi (which I know is a crappy flow rate for a bigger line);

    I'd estimate the hose lay will be between 50 to 100 feet of 2.5;

    The pumps are stationary fire pumps to charge the fire protection grid. I don't anticipate anyone being there to adjust the pump output. I suppose you could gate it down from an appliance at the hydrant if you switched from a fog to a SB but really don't see that happening.

    Hope this helps and thanks for the feedback.
    Better look at the chart again. At 50psi 200gpm solid(SB)/95 gpm Fog
    At 100 Psi 280 solid(SB)/135 gpm Fog. These nozzles switch easily from SB to fog but you WILL find a reaction going from Fog to SB at 100psi supplied. T.C.

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    I bought some for my vollie department to put on our brush truck with a CAFS skid. It gives us some options with straight water, as well as the smooth bore for CAFS.

    To be honest, I think that's about the only application I'd use one. We use TurboJets on our 1 3/4" lines and Assaults (250@50) on our 2 1/2" fogs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    our 2 1/2" fogs.
    LOL, fogs on 2 1/2's always cracks me up.

    They also make for a good laugh when on master streams. Blitz fires (funny in themselves) with one 2.5 line feeding them also crack me up.

    Good times.

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    Cracks you up? I don't understand why! For certain applications, I wouldn't use a solid bore, unless I wanted to spread the fire. Ever try to control a refined petroleum product fire with a straight stream? Didn't think so! In some cases I still prefer a "Low velocity" fog application. Oh we are modern and there is no reason to trust that old "Navy Nozzle"

    2 1/2" line on a blitz is exactly correct if you want to use both a blitz at 400 gpm and a 1 3/4" at 180 gpm. And you can supply them both from a 3" tank to pump line (580 gpm).

    Cracks me up!

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    Quote Originally Posted by KuhShise View Post
    Cracks you up? I don't understand why! For certain applications, I wouldn't use a solid bore, unless I wanted to spread the fire. Ever try to control a refined petroleum product fire with a straight stream? Didn't think so! In some cases I still prefer a "Low velocity" fog application. Oh we are modern and there is no reason to trust that old "Navy Nozzle"

    2 1/2" line on a blitz is exactly correct if you want to use both a blitz at 400 gpm and a 1 3/4" at 180 gpm. And you can supply them both from a 3" tank to pump line (580 gpm).

    Cracks me up!
    I wasn't debating when to use a smoothbore.

    but, as a matter of fact, for any "outside" fire, including what you mentioned, I have no reservations about using a fog nozzle.

    A fog nozzle on a 2.5 or a master stream is not a good choice for obvious reasons. Do I need to tell you why? you looking foolish with a fog on your master stream will not only keep you there longer, but you'll crack me up with how foolish you look.

    When did I say I want to use the blitz at 400?, I want to use it at what it's intended. a 2.5 feeding a blitz still cracks me up...do you like to use things for their potential, or settle for less? hint hint

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    Quote Originally Posted by KuhShise View Post

    2 1/2" line on a blitz is exactly correct if you want to use both a blitz at 400 gpm and a 1 3/4" at 180 gpm. And you can supply them both from a 3" tank to pump line (580 gpm).

    Cracks me up!
    lol^^^

    What is this perfect world where you're so certain you'll get 400 gpm from that 2.5?

    If you must you the blitz, why not siamese two 2.5's so you can at least hope to get the 500gpm the blitz is rated for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    I bought some for my vollie department to put on our brush truck with a CAFS skid. It gives us some options with straight water, as well as the smooth bore for CAFS.

    To be honest, I think that's about the only application I'd use one. We use TurboJets on our 1 3/4" lines and Assaults (250@50) on our 2 1/2" fogs.
    I didn't think about CAFS. That may very well be a good application for these things. We don't have CAFS and no one around us does either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by . View Post
    LOL, fogs on 2 1/2's always cracks me up.

    They also make for a good laugh when on master streams. Blitz fires (funny in themselves) with one 2.5 line feeding them also crack me up.

    Good times.
    I'm glad you get a laugh. Maybe some day when you get some real experience in the firefighting world you'll realize there's more than one tool in the toolbox and each one has an application. That's precisely the reason we have one 2 1/2" preconnect with a fog and one with a playpipe.

    I've used a 2 1/2" fog numerous times to make a knockdown of a large, confined fire within a building where I want GPM and steam conversion. Then take it in as an attack line. LPG fires I've used them. Exposure protection. There's all kinds of applications.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    I didn't think about CAFS. That may very well be a good application for these things. We don't have CAFS and no one around us does either.
    The only thing we have it on is that brush skid, so I figured it was a good way to try them out. It worked out OK and seemed to be worthwhile, so we ordered enough to outfit all the lines on that unit, none of which are over an 1 3/4.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    Maybe some day when you get some real experience in the firefighting world
    ^^^That provided for the best laugh.

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