1. #1
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    Default Need input on changing dept Policy

    Hey guys we all know the helmet subject has been beaten to death on here, but i need the experience and expertise of the guys on here...
    Our dept currently does not allow the members to wear tradional helmets, whether plastic or leather. according to the chief he likes things to be uniform. But we are allowed to purchase our own gloves, boots, helmet decals,etc... so really not uniform. I guess what im getting at is what would be the best way to go about changing this. there are about 8 of us right now that have Trad helmets and we are only allowed to use them on training and waterball events...
    So like i said what would be a good way to get this changed? purpose a new SOP? just plead our case? NEED YOU GUYS' INPUT!! thanks alot!!!!
    Last edited by InstructorJV87; 01-30-2011 at 07:47 PM.
    Whos says Fire Trucks cant be YELLOW!

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    Allowing your own choice of gloves and boots are nothing like allowing your own choice of helmets. More then 3/4 of a fireboot is not even visible. And gloves are not even something you would always have on at a fire scene. Helmets and turnout gear are.

    Our department allows your own choice of boots and gloves too, since proper fit and comfort are critical. And again, they are not highly visible and noticed items. But with helmets, whether it's traditional or moern, the fit is for the most part the same. So it's not a comfort issue. We wear tradtional helmets and can wear any brand we want, plastic or leather. So long as it's NFPA and looks like the others.

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    Get a new chief.

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    If your chief wants a uniform look, the best way to go about it is probably to discuss it with him in earnest. I know mentioning gloves and all that, but how visible are gloves to the public? When you start mixing helmets on the fireground, it tends to look like you have personnel from multiple departments there. I see where he's comign from, myself.

    If he wants to stick with the uniformity of having everyone in one helmet, you might start looking at options as to how to fund a complete change-over. Even in that case, does everyone (or at least the majority) want to go to traditionals?

    Keep in mind, he has to look beyond what the guys want, he also has his bosses to answer to. If council/board members start seeing multiple helmets on a scene and don't like the look of it, he's going to have to have an answer to why. If he puts in a budget item for a wholesale replacement of helmets, he's going to have to justify it. Think of everything he's going to have to deal with and have an answer to justify why you want to do it and how it can be done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InstructorJV87 View Post
    Hey guys we all know the helmet subject has been beaten to death on here, but i need the experience and expertise of the guys on here...
    Our dept currently does not allow the members to wear tradional helmets, whether plastic or leather. according to the chief he likes things to be uniform. But we are allowed to purchase our own gloves, boots, helmet decals,etc... so really not uniform. I guess what im getting at is what would be the best way to go about changing this. there are about 8 of us right now that have Trad helmets and we are only allowed to use them on training and waterball events...
    So like i said what would be a good way to get this changed? purpose a new SOP? just plead our case? NEED UR GUYS INPUT!! thanks alot!!!!
    Why do you need input from ur guys. Uruguay is in South America... and the Bomberos de Uruguay wear tactical tupperware.... as seen in this video...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR1c3...eature=related
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Why do you need input from ur guys. Uruguay is in South America... and the Bomberos de Uruguay wear tactical tupperware.... as seen in this video...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR1c3...eature=related
    I must need some sleep, it took me WAY too long to figure that one out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    If your chief wants a uniform look, the best way to go about it is probably to discuss it with him in earnest. I know mentioning gloves and all that, but how visible are gloves to the public? When you start mixing helmets on the fireground, it tends to look like you have personnel from multiple departments there. I see where he's comign from, myself.

    If he wants to stick with the uniformity of having everyone in one helmet, you might start looking at options as to how to fund a complete change-over. Even in that case, does everyone (or at least the majority) want to go to traditionals?

    Keep in mind, he has to look beyond what the guys want, he also has his bosses to answer to. If council/board members start seeing multiple helmets on a scene and don't like the look of it, he's going to have to have an answer to why. If he puts in a budget item for a wholesale replacement of helmets, he's going to have to justify it. Think of everything he's going to have to deal with and have an answer to justify why you want to do it and how it can be done.
    very valid point sir thanks guess i never really looked at it that way myself makes a little bit more sense now
    Whos says Fire Trucks cant be YELLOW!

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    Quote Originally Posted by InstructorJV87 View Post
    very valid point sir thanks guess i never really looked at it that way myself makes a little bit more sense now
    Chief's aren't all bad guys and sometimes they have some valid reasons. It just takes putting yourself in their shoes for a bit.

    One thing I've learned as a chief and during my career at the paying gig- if you want something, come to the guy holding the purse strings with what you want, why you want it, why it's going to help the guys/department, and how much it's going to cost. You'll find you can get a lot further if you've done half his work for him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    Chief's aren't all bad guys and sometimes they have some valid reasons. It just takes putting yourself in their shoes for a bit.

    One thing I've learned as a chief and during my career at the paying gig- if you want something, come to the guy holding the purse strings with what you want, why you want it, why it's going to help the guys/department, and how much it's going to cost. You'll find you can get a lot further if you've done half his work for him.
    Thanks for the advice chief
    Whos says Fire Trucks cant be YELLOW!

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    My career FD started allowing us to buy our own plastic traditional helmets about 3 years ago. They set a standard and listed the specific helmets that they would allow. The helmet also had to be the appropriate color for your rank.

    Now all new recruits are issued plastic traditional helmets and all helmets needing replacement are replaced with traditional helmets.

    To me it isn't that big of a deal. I am still wearing my salad bowl helmet and probably will do so until they decide to replace it with a new department issued traditional. Funny thing is I have owned a plastic traditional helmet for almost as long as the policy has allowed us to wear one. I just have never gotten a front for it to let me use it at work. Why? Not important enough to me to be honest.

    I find it kind of funny with all the issues we face today people are using energy that could be directed in other areas more productively to try and get to wear a traditional helmet.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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    See if the chief will let a uniform committe to be formed that would give recommendations to him and he would meet with them as advisors

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    I've said it before and I'll say it again .. Wear what you are issued.

    What the heck is the big deal?

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