1. #1
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    Question TICs (Thermal Imaging Camera's)

    Need help.

    I have never even held one and I gotta buy one.

    Grant award... $9,000 awarded of course, but that is not our limit if a 'value per dollar' factor should present itself. So looking for recommendations and advice of what to do and not do. Makes. Models. Accessories.

    Hey, can this equipment be used to check houses for heat loss? One member asked me and I have spent O time educating myself.

    I wanted to come here first.

    You can email me at jam24u@hotmail.com if you do not want to post here.

    thanks.

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    Here is the one we use at my department, we have one on the two main pumpers.
    http://www.scotthealthsafety.com/ame.../eagle320.aspx

    I would also recommend this truck mount system for it as well. We hardly ever have to use the spare battery but it is nice to have when we need it.
    http://www.scotthealthsafety.com/Ame...gle160tcs.aspx

    I can say that I really like this one and prefer it over the different ones our mutual aid departments have, but I have never really spent alot of time with theirs to make a real comparison. Not sure of the price though. I will tell you it was the best money our department has spent. I've never tried to use it to see heat loss of a house we mainly have used it to find many hidden fires quickly and easily without ripping up the entire house. They save alot of unnecessary damage for the homeowner. Helps a ton to locate the seat of a fire in heavy smoke enviroments. You'll wonder how you ever went without once you get one.

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    http://www.bullard.com/V3/products/t...service/T3MAX/

    not sure if that link will work automatically or not, but this is what we currently run on our duty pumper..its light weight, durable, and easy to use..

    we also run a few of these in a few trucks at each captain's seat..
    http://www.bullardeclipse.com/
    however, you're not gonna get the same performance features as the previous..because this is a handheld device, aimed at just providing a quick sense of where heat is located.

    If you havent noticed..our dept likes to run the "bullard" name when dealing with TICs, but we've worked with several other neighboring depts that have scott, or msa brand as well..they all work great..it's really up to you and what kind of price you are looking to pay..only recommendation I would say is find something that has a temp reading on it, as that can be very helpful when dealing with "fire heat" or just "residual heat"..

    again just opinion here, so take it for what it's worth
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    Got our first TIC in 1997. Was an old Argus camera. $17,000 at the time. Then spent more time trying different cameras before our next purchase. All have some good features. State of NJ worked out a deal with Bullard to make them available to all departments in the state, but we passed and took the $$$ instead. We use MSA cameras. We don't go for the full featured do everything models, as we find that rarely gets used. We went for simple, easy to use. Have gone from 4000, to 5000, 5200, and now 5600 I think. 2 are on order and awaiting their delivery, both with truck mount kits. Cost $12,000 for the pair.

    Yes, you can see heat signatures on a house. But you really need to spend some time with a camera in hand looking at things and learning to interpret what you are seeing.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    We justed place our order for the msa 5200hd. On thing I would do is have several companys come out and show there products. Best if its the same night so you can really compare side by side. Don't be wowed into extra fancy featureszxw you will never use. Several TIC's you can change the colors all up and in my option that just lends it self to confusion. I'm no expert but like most things I think when buying a TIc look for reiablity, service after sale and K.I.S.S operation.

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    Hee Hoo Lay Ching Gow!

    Now we're breaking it down to what I was asking for. Excellent advice. My sincere appreciation. If you remember something else, do not forget to email me at Jam24u@hotmail.com

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    We use MSAs. All 16 engine companies, 2 truck companies and 2 chiefs carry them. It is what I have grown up on so that's probably why I like them the best,

    Bullard seems to be hitting the game pretty hard these days. I like what I see from them. Here is a video from a local dealer going through how durable they are: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr-qYpDGSYE

    Bones, I don't know why you got that price from but thats amazing. Last ones I had quoted were $12,000 each.
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    Thumbs up And............

    The best use only the Best...... That's why we use MSA.......


    Seriously, we like MSA. They have done well for us over the years..... Regardless of what kind you get, learn all of the "Tricks of the Trade" Small example: I always check the seats of a Car involved in a Crash. The TIC will show a difference between seats that were occupied and those that weren't, assuming that you get there quick enough........ And yes, once you learn to use a TIC, you can check heat loss, etc. I probably shouldn't mention that they're good for finding Deer in the Woods at night.........
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    So hwoods have you found out how to mount the TIC on a hunting rifle yet lol just joking. But looking for deer would me a good way to practive looking for lost victims at night lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    We use MSAs. All 16 engine companies, 2 truck companies and 2 chiefs carry them. It is what I have grown up on so that's probably why I like them the best,

    Bullard seems to be hitting the game pretty hard these days. I like what I see from them. Here is a video from a local dealer going through how durable they are: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr-qYpDGSYE

    Bones, I don't know why you got that price from but thats amazing. Last ones I had quoted were $12,000 each.
    thefirestore.com They (MSA) have a tradein program going with older models.
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    Right now both my vollie and career departments are running MSA's. I can't complain about them one bit.

    However, I'm in a similar boat in that the vollie department got a grant and is looking at a second TIC. I would highly recommend getting some demos in to look at.

    I was all but ready to go back to the MSA, then a sales rep brought in an ISG Infrasys. So far I'm impressed and we're looking really hard at one. My issue is that it's a higher-priced unit, but the resolution and definition it has is unreal from what I've seen.

    Get with Danko and they'll likely send you a video and some information, if you'd like it.

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    Cool EMT friction within dept.

    oops, this was supposed to be new thread, not a reply.
    Last edited by jam24u; 02-05-2011 at 10:03 PM. Reason: supposed to be new thread. wrong location

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    Rule of thumb: if the guy who is demoing the camera won't throw it across the bay with confidence, don't buy it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Anybody remember the old Cairns IRIS? Dalton had one when I started there, hardly ever came off the engine, was the biggest P.O.S. ever.

    Back in the early 2000's Dalton switched to the ISG/INFRASYS K-90 Tallisman XL. I used it several times, was a great tool.

    At Havelock we use the MSA Evolution 5000 series, haven't had a chance to use it yet so I can't really give much feedback on it. They seem to like it though.

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    Talking

    We have an old ISG talisman from a grant 10 years ago. It always works and other than the battery life no problems at all. We keep a couple of spare charged battery packs in the case.

    We are looking at the MSA[ 5600 ] ??? model for a new TIC because our MSA rep gives us units to demo. Really liked the color display over the grey scale

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    We have an old ISG talisman from a grant 10 years ago. It always works and other than the battery life no problems at all. We keep a couple of spare charged battery packs in the case.

    We are looking at the MSA[ 5600 ] ??? model for a new TIC because our MSA rep gives us units to demo. Really liked the color display over the grey scale
    Yeah, I forgot about those batteries draining so fast, that was irritating. But other than that, I've never whited one out. One got whited out one time, that was when we first used our new burn building, we didn't realize it got that hot that fast. We learned the hard way that some training would be required for use of the training building, haha. Thank God nobody was hurt. One of those boneheaded moments. We were like little kids on Christmas morning, wanted to play with our new toy before reading the directions. Leason learned though.

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    Thumbs up That Too........

    Quote Originally Posted by volfireman034 View Post
    So hwoods have you found out how to mount the TIC on a hunting rifle yet lol just joking. But looking for deer would me a good way to practive looking for lost victims at night lol


    Good Point....... Finding people at night is certainly a challenge under the best of circumstances, but having a TIC and knowing how to use it puts you light years ahead of those who don't. As I mentioned above, We get the TIC out at a lot of Crashes after Dark. One thing that folks might think about: There are gizmos called "Lazer Thermometers" or "Infrared Thermometers" available at Hardware Stores. In no way are these things a substitute for a TIC, BUT, having a couple available and using then as soon as you arrive on a job can establish priorities for the TIC..........
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    Good Point....... Finding people at night is certainly a challenge under the best of circumstances, but having a TIC and knowing how to use it puts you light years ahead of those who don't. As I mentioned above, We get the TIC out at a lot of Crashes after Dark. One thing that folks might think about: There are gizmos called "Lazer Thermometers" or "Infrared Thermometers" available at Hardware Stores. In no way are these things a substitute for a TIC, BUT, having a couple available and using then as soon as you arrive on a job can establish priorities for the TIC..........
    We used to get called out by P.D. all the time to use our TIC to have a look see in the dark for anyone that might be partially exposed. Once they asked us to look throught the ceiling of a house to see if a perp with a gun might be in the attic. We had to explain to them it wasn't X-ray vision. Then they wanted us to poke our head through the attic scuttle and look around for him. We showed them how to use it so they could look around, we don't get paid to get shot at.
    Last edited by firefightinirish217; 02-06-2011 at 04:32 PM.

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    We just field test Bullard, MSA and Scott.

    We selected Scott. We felt it had the best bang for the buck and was going to be the most durable and reliable.

    We will carry the new Scott on the engine and the old Bullard on the rescue..

    We also, thank god, selected Scott to replace our MSA SCBA.

    It was not part of a package. they were evaluated by different committees and the TIC was purchased first before the SCBA selection process had even been started.

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    Our sister department in the district and us just got MSA 5200HD2's. Mounted ours on the rescue on Friday and it's only been used for demonstration and familiarization so far. It's on the rescue since that's usually out the door at the same time as the engine, and there's really not a lot of room on the engine to mount it.

    No complaints as yet.

    We had looked at buying two of the small Bullard Eclipses for the same amount we spent on the 5200HD2, but got overridden by the district, which wanted consistency. Not complaining, though, one TIC is better than none.

    I was talking to a FF from another area who says they've got an Eclipse on every frontline apparatus. As I understand it, the Eclipse is intended to be a "personal" TIC, with many FF's having them.

    That may not work in everyone's environment, cost notwithstanding. I'm sure there are those who would find having three TICs on the engine less than desireable.

    Another department I'm familiar with swears by their Bullard.
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    Do any companies other than Bullard typically throw their cameras across the room and dip it in a bucket of water during demonstrations?
    Last edited by blaster668; 02-07-2011 at 01:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blaster668 View Post
    Do any companies other than Bullard typically throw their cameras across the room and dip it in a bucket of water during demonstrations?
    Been using cameras since 1997 and haven't thrown one across a room nor dumped it in a bucket of water.

    So not really sure what the point of that is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Been using cameras since 1997 and haven't thrown one across a room nor dumped it in a bucket of water.

    So not really sure what the point of that is.

    Well, I think it demonstrates the confidence the reps have in their product. We all know that if there's a way to break something, a firefighter is sure to figure out how . Things often get dropped, knocked against other objects, and doused in water on the fireground. I think these demonstrations show that the product can hold up to these conditions.

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    A sherman tank is pretty indestructible too for driving down the road...that doesn't make it the best choice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    A sherman tank is pretty indestructible too for driving down the road...that doesn't make it the best choice.

    Yeah, but driving down the road you don't EXPECT to bump into things, get shot at, etc. If I was expecting these things to happen, I would choose the tank ! On the fireground it is known and expected to be a rough environment.

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