1. #1
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    Default Problem EMT/ Dirty Laundry

    God I hate this. We got a new volley EMT two years ago. Know it all. Been difficult. Some issues with me too. I was in charge of holding radio communication training for our entire county's emergency responders. (New system activated, meeting the narrowbanding requirements), anyway this girl comes in and takes a look around and walks out. One of members of the closes mutual aid partner remarked out loud how they are having a difficult time with her. (she likes to respond to their calls too). Said my favorite term for her;"Two years on and acts like she's been on twenty." They do not like her. Then a week later at our quarterly mutual aid meeting, the president of the mutual aid again from our closes partner up and tells me that one of their own rescue squad members refuses to go on a call if she is responding.

    Now she wants to dive into the pile of mutual and automatic aid agreements. I am beginning to believe I am going to have to go to the president of our board (an emt, not FF and actually lost in space) and relay what I have learned.

    If other departments are sick of her with some not even willing to respond, I am very concerned about her leadership ability. She was recently elected EMS captain and right out of the gate she began by chewing out some younger FF's. She did this even after she failed to attend the regular meetings where the protocols for operations are set.

    My question is this. This member has an issue with me, but as always I am the one the seven other departments communicate with. I know how to not let the differences from the other side of the fence to interfere with operations, but going over the hole that is there with our mutual aid partner, I am feeling obligated to go to our chief, but have serious doubts that our President of the board being able to handle this situation properly.

    Anyone had an issue like this before and did it get resolved and resolved without collateral damages?
    Last edited by jam24u; 02-05-2011 at 10:04 PM.

  2. #2
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    3, 4 and 5 Bugles trump 2 Bugles....get the Chiefs involved.
    FTM - BTB - KTF

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    Ah the problem child that thinks everyone else has a tude:

    Jim:
    You could always repossess her pager and radio for technical adjustments & forget to return them.
    Bring it up at the next area chiefs meeting .
    Let the horsepower make the bitchslap.

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    Take her pager and gear away and kick her out of the department.

    She is another 10 year rookie.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    No offense to you guys, but this is one of the reason I don't like elections for officers. Obviously she's got someone convinced of her prowess to get elected, but behind the scenes it appears she's not all she's cracked up to be.

    The way I look at it, the chief is responsible for running the operations of that department, the board is responsible for oversight. Go to the chief and have a serious discussion about her. Maybe she's still managable and can be an asset, it may take a stern "come to Jesus" meeting to do so, though.

    Regardless, if it's impacting operations and you have a member running calls in others' areas, the chief needs to know about it so he can handle it. At the end of the day, he's the one that's responsible for the operations of the department.

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    Boy did I just get an education. I was leaving church to go to our other church and got grabbed by two of our community's leaders who wished to discuss some town issues and I found out that this problem newbie-EMT is a problem everywhere else she is involved. Horrible stuff along the same lines of what our department is running into. She has been kicked off of our fine arts association and other organizations as well. Actually trying to force fist fights between individuals at council meetings....

    I thought that I was the only one she had an issue with and was hateful to. By others descriptions of how she has been towards them, she and I are practically married. I am both relieved, but even more concerned about the potential damage she can bring.

    For the good of the department, and the mutual aid association, I'll have to pull the trigger on some sort of action.

    Count ourselves lucky to become aware of this person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jam24u View Post
    Boy did I just get an education. I was leaving church to go to our other church and got grabbed by two of our community's leaders who wished to discuss some town issues and I found out that this problem newbie-EMT is a problem everywhere else she is involved. Horrible stuff along the same lines of what our department is running into. She has been kicked off of our fine arts association and other organizations as well. Actually trying to force fist fights between individuals at council meetings....

    I thought that I was the only one she had an issue with and was hateful to. By others descriptions of how she has been towards them, she and I are practically married. I am both relieved, but even more concerned about the potential damage she can bring.

    For the good of the department, and the mutual aid association, I'll have to pull the trigger on some sort of action.

    Count ourselves lucky to become aware of this person.
    First of all have you documented, on paper all of these complaints. Time, where, who all need to be typed out as soon as you get them.

    If it's not on paper, it never happened.

    Secondly, does she hold rank? If yes, is she acting outside of the boundaries of that description? That can be used to reign her in.

    Third, you mentioned that she runs calls on the calls of another organizations. Is she a member there? Do your bylaws allow your members to run on another department's/squad's runs if they are not a member of that department ?

    (We cannot unless our department is requested as mutual aid unless you are passing by the scene)

    Have you specifically talked to that organization and documented the details of tier issues as, if she is not a member there, disciplining here is the right and responsibility of your organization if she is acting as a member of your department on their scenes?

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    I'd be interested in just how she's running with other outfits. If it's within her "rights" as a member of an over-arching organization it'll be tougher than if she's not. That's an area you may want to investigate.

    The first line of defense is for the neighboring crews to say "no thanks, we've got it covered" (assuming they do). If she gets pushy, call law enforcement.

    If she's "jumping" calls outside her normal response area, then it'll take a concerted effort, including running chief's to these calls, for the simple purpose of dealing with her. Document enough stuff (as LA suggests) and out the door she goes.

    The only way I can insist on staying involved with a call I happen into in a neighboring district (ie, happen to be passing by) is by invoking the fact that I am an ALS provider and can only turn a patient over to an equal or higher level, unless med control says otherwise. Elsewise they can throw me off their rig (figuratively speaking). Fortunately I'll always leave gracefully if not asked to come along.

    You might even want to discuss the matter with state EMS (or other such governing authority) and/or your lawyer.
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

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    take her out at her knees!!!!!!!

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    We got a new volley EMT two years ago....She was recently elected EMS captain



    Seriously, how do organizations allow themselves to function like this? A whopping 2 years and your organization allows her to even run for Captain. Really? I am guessing your standards are pretty low. And you got pretty low results from that.

    Step 1. Make tighter requirements for leadership.
    Step 2. Follow those requirements.
    Step 3. Use her as the example for why you have step 1 and 2.

    After that, look at your joining process. I find it hard to believe that this person was an angel before this. Did no one contact prior department? Did on one talk to her personally? Was there any background check into this person before allowing her in?

    Ya, she is a problem. But there is a larger problem being uncovered by her.

    Good Luck. "Your" reputation is being dealt a bad blow due to this person.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Last edited by Chenzo; 02-09-2011 at 02:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    First of all have you documented, on paper all of these complaints. Time, where, who all need to be typed out as soon as you get them.

    If it's not on paper, it never happened.

    Secondly, does she hold rank? If yes, is she acting outside of the boundaries of that description? That can be used to reign her in.

    Third, you mentioned that she runs calls on the calls of another organizations. Is she a member there? Do your bylaws allow your members to run on another department's/squad's runs if they are not a member of that department ?

    (We cannot unless our department is requested as mutual aid unless you are passing by the scene)

    Have you specifically talked to that organization and documented the details of tier issues as, if she is not a member there, disciplining here is the right and responsibility of your organization if she is acting as a member of your department on their scenes?
    I have to agree. Document everything. You would be amazed at what people will sue, or claim for. Even though it is a volunteer department, the volunteers are still "hired" and can use employment law.

    Our take on being on another departments calls if we are not mutual aid is, you better have been passing by AND it be serious enough for them to actually NEED your help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    Why is it called a Falcon Punch

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    Quote Originally Posted by jam24u View Post
    Why is it called a Falcon Punch
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...Falcon%20Punch
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

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    I just had to read all of that...didn't I. I can see the Chuck Norris statement being true though.

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    Thanks Chez... that's a couple of minutes I will never get back.

    jam: Document everything. Bring in the Chief... get his take and let him deal with it.

    I hate call jumpers. But I also hate airing dirty laundry in public. But because you state up front that you hate this crap, I'm giving you a pass.

    I have had to deal with this particular para-witch issue before. The department was sued over a termination from one of these. After $50,000 of City money for legal defense and two years, we prevailed. But the trail by the press gave everyone a black eye. No one wins. Having said that, you have little choice but to look out for the good of the city/department. The black eye is already there.... you now need to control the swelling.

    There is a reason some people should never be in this line of work. Eventually, every Napoleon arrives at Waterloo. The sooner the better; it reduces the number of casualties.

    I am sorry for this situation.
    HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL

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