1. #1
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    Default water flowing in 60 seconds of arrival

    I have been directed to flow water within 60 seconds of arrival on scene of any/all fires even if it is just a trash line manned by 1 FF with no pack.
    Pros/Cons Justifications.

    Thanks.

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    By whom? Is this a career department or volunteer? Are you the Company Officer? Are you Union? Did you get the order in writing, to protect yourself in the event of an injury to yourself or any of your company members? Tell us more. And for the record, I would have told whoever gave me this order, that "I would have water on the fire as soon as the initial 360 was done and in a safe manner."
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    An admirable goal. Pump wet or dry?

    Of course, you can't really flow water until a line is stretched, but assuming you can stop, (chocks?), engage the pump, get water to the pump and be ready to discharge in 60 seconds, more power to you.

    I've never bothered timing. On the other hand, I've known situations where the water was a long time coming...
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

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    Depending on the apparatus, this is do-able.

    I've been ready to give water before the guys on the line were ready for it.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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    Quote Originally Posted by firehog104 View Post
    I have been directed to flow water within 60 seconds of arrival on scene of any/all fires even if it is just a trash line manned by 1 FF with no pack.
    Pros/Cons Justifications.

    Thanks.
    Guess you never have to go to a third floor (or higher)? or an extended line?

    Must be nice to live in such a small perfect area.


    I have areas that will require more than 60 seconds just to get the handline to where it's needed.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    For someone to say you have to have water flowing within 60 seconds of arrival on every fire scene is impractical and foolish...... What is the point of flowing water if said water is not being placed where needed in an effective way? In my company's district we are 85% non-hydrant, our first due engine carries 1000 gal of water, and it may be five to seven mintues before the next truck arrives on scene to supply that engine. So if you don't effectively place the wet stuff on the hot stuff, you could potentially get yourself and your crew in trouble, and loose saveable buildings...... so for at least my department saying you have to have water flowing within 60 seconds of arrival would be foolish.....


    Just my opinion

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    Quote Originally Posted by firehog104 View Post
    I have been directed to flow water within 60 seconds of arrival on scene...
    By whose authority?

    While it may be possible, it isn't always practical or safe.
    HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL

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    This is a rediculous order and will probably be repealled the first time someone gets hurt or misses something they would have seen if they weren't in such a hurry to get water out of the truck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by firehog104 View Post
    I have been directed to flow water within 60 seconds of arrival on scene of any/all fires even if it is just a trash line manned by 1 FF with no pack.
    Pros/Cons Justifications.

    Thanks.

    This is too stupid to even take seriously.
    Courage, Being Scared to Death and Saddling Up anyways.

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    I see a line charged with hose still in the crosslay in the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firehog104 View Post
    I have been directed to flow water within 60 seconds of arrival on scene of any/all fires even if it is just a trash line manned by 1 FF with no pack.
    Pros/Cons Justifications.

    Thanks.
    I use this with my company. It's a drill to get them familiar with their apparatus. Road to pump to flow in under 60 in a safe and effective manner is not that hard.

    If it's a directive for all the time and every time something is wrong.

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    The biggest question that is not answered here, IMO, is this: What exactly is your role?

    I see this as a perfectly acceptable directive IF you are the one driving the big red truck and pumping the water.

    Officers and attack crews will be doing the 360.

    Officers and attack crews will decide what line to pull, and what the best plan of attack will be to get the wet stuff on the red stuff.

    If you are the operator you should have these main responsabilities:

    Catch a hydrant on the way in (unless you know 100% that a 2nd Engine is on the way to pump to you), or position your engine so that a port-a-tank can be used.

    Position your engine in front of the fire in a way that allows other units to be positioned effectively. I am always in favor of pulling past the house if possible, that way everyone gets a look at Alpha, Bravo & Delta before you even get out of the truck. Also our engines have the pump pannel mounded on a catwalk behind the cab, so driving past the house lets me as an operator see the scene while pumping.

    In my mind, NOW would be the time the 60 second window begins to countdown. During those 60 seconds I would be expected to:

    1) Get the engine into pump-gear, making sure it is engaged and the emergency brake is secure.
    2) Exit the engine with all my gear (turnouts, helmet, mask, radio). When driving I usually don't wear my coat, and if we are low number and something goes south I need to be ready to assist during a mayday.
    3) Secure the wheels, placing chocks.
    4) Actually get behind the controls of the pump, priming the pump and making sure water is flowing in the pump itself. Recirculating water to make sure it is not freezing (or during the other 4 months make sure the pump is not going to overheat).
    5) Make sure that our CAFS is set to the correct type of foam and to the correct percentage for whatever type of fire we are fighting.
    6) Make sure I know what line(s) are being pulled so that I can charge the correct line when called upon.
    7) Set the pump to the correct pressure for the tactics that will be used, amount of line needed, 2nd story fires, etc......

    At this point we would call time. This is what we mean at our department when we say "be READY to flow water within 60 seconds of arrival". If you are the operator, you should have everything done to safely flow water to a nozzle at the 60 second mark. That does not mean you charge the line at the 60 second mark, but if the crew is ready to flow water at the 60 second mark and calls for it you are ready to flow.

    Now if whoever in your department is telling an officer or an initial attack team to have water flowing at 60 seconds, no matter what.......Then there are some serious issues to address.

    But expecting a pump operator to be ready to flow water within 60 seconds of arrival, that seems perfectly reasonable to me.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Carry a water fire extinguisher at the pump panel

    When you get out shoot a shot of water first

    You meet the requirement, then get busy

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    ...At this point we would call time. This is what we mean at our department when we say "be READY to flow water within 60 seconds of arrival". If you are the operator, you should have everything done to safely flow water to a nozzle at the 60 second mark. That does not mean you charge the line at the 60 second mark, but if the crew is ready to flow water at the 60 second mark and calls for it you are ready to flow.

    Now if whoever in your department is telling an officer or an initial attack team to have water flowing at 60 seconds, no matter what.......Then there are some serious issues to address.

    But expecting a pump operator to be ready to flow water within 60 seconds of arrival, that seems perfectly reasonable to me.
    THIS. It is not unreasonalbe to ask an operator to be ready to charge a line within 60 seconds. Actually from air brake to hand on the control valve ready to charge the line, using tank water, 60 seconds might be a lot of extra time. At least on most modern engines.

    Now the original post, that is rediculous. There is no good tactic to direct a line to be charged, escpecially a trash line with a partially clad firefighter, for no real reason. Sounds like an officer taking the wrong direction trying to correct a training issue.
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    This sounds good in theory. I don't think you would be able to read the mind of the person in charge. Within 60 seconds the officer (person in charge) may not know whether to pull the trash line, the 1 3/4 or the 2 1/2. The person in charge may not want the line charged until the line is closer to the fire.

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    This is a stupid, arbitrary rule with very little practical application in the real world. Sounds like something a micromanager with degrees and no real world experience would come up with.

    Are there instances where it may be possible to have water flowing through a handline in 60 seconds? Of course. But it does not take into account long stretches, going to upper floors, and obstacles that must be overcome to get to the fire.
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    Quote Originally Posted by firehog104 View Post
    I have been directed to flow water within 60 seconds of arrival on scene of any/all fires even if it is just a trash line manned by 1 FF with no pack.
    Pros/Cons Justifications.

    Thanks.

    Seeing as all scenes are identical, all fires are identical, all staffing and equipment is identical, I don't see the problem.

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    I flow water all the time, I drive around with the main drain open.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    I flow water all the time, I drive around with the main drain open.
    I thought that was what happens to rookies when they get scared.
    Courage, Being Scared to Death and Saddling Up anyways.

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    Trying to flow water that quick is going to cause one to forget something or screw something up. If your officer and pipemen are ready and at the door in 60 seconds they need to pump the brakes and look around at whats going on. Just my opinion.

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    Just replace all your 1.5, 1.75, 2.5, 3, 4, 5 inch hose with booster reels and you will be golden.

    IT'S RED LINE FOR ALL
    Bring enough hose.

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    I concur!

    On scene to ready to charge the line in 60 seconds every time - OK and very feasible.

    On scene to actually flowing water from a handline in 60 seconds every time - Very impractical and a recipe for bad stuff to happen.

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    well where is the original poster with the details ..................this smells kinda fishy.........like getting baited to a ****ing match. AGAIN.
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    To be ready to flow tank water in 60 seconds......OK feasible. But haste make waste, you rush around, you make mistakes. Concentrate on doing the job correctly and you'll be more efficient.

  25. #25
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    Easy. Deck gun.

    Use it on the one who is demanding water in 60 seconds.

    ( Or not. It might end badly. )
    We do not rise to the occasion. We fall back to our level of training.

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