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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefengineer11 View Post
    Try that in our area, you come away with two couplings and a shredded pile of rubber.
    You probably have pressure in your hydrants. All of ours are the no pressure PVC type.

    I should have said we use the flexible hard suction, we still have quite a bit of the solid rubber stuff in the attic though. It looks better in parades to have the original equipment on the trucks.


  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by KB1OEV View Post
    You probably have pressure in your hydrants.
    As in lots of it.

  3. #43
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    Default Z valve

    Here is a picture of a Z valve. As CE11 mentioned only one company in our area has this valve. It is very efficient for use in line for long relays. Has similiar FL to a large flow hydrasist. Pumps the same as a hydrasist.

    It has an advantage over a hydrasist in that it can also be used at the drafting site. Our LDH Task Force has a procedure to place a second engine at the draft site ready to draft as a back-up in case of a problem with the draft engine - usually cleaning stainers. Since the Z valve has a gate on the side inlets the second engine can be ready and jump into service without a problem. You can pump the boosting inlet without connecting to the boosting engine supply side of the valve. This cannot be done with the hydrasist or the Humat. A jumbo gated WYE 5" x 2 - 5" Stortz will can the same thing for the drafting situation.

    Mike
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  4. #44
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    I have read with some interest, opinions about scrapping 3" line owing to the use of 5" supply lines. Let me say there is a place for 3" line in the fire service. Although I would not set-up a new engine with 3" supply, some older apparatus that is already equipped with it can function quite well using a split bed and dual lay at single family dwellings. Most SFD homes have a flow requirement of under 1,000 gpm, even with exposures. Considering the friction loss in 3" at Q squared, or 25 psi per 100 ft for a flow of 500 gpm, a pressure of 165 psi should be more than adequate to send 1,000 gpm down a 600 ft. lay of dual 3" lines to the attack engine.
    When on a "Big Box" or for large set-back homes, a 3" supplying a water thief or leaderline wye can be an ideal use of the 3" that you took out of main bed service. If we are connecting two 1 3/4" lines and a 2 1/2" line to a water thief, being fed by 200 ft. of 3" line, the correct engine pressure would be around 250 psi for a total flow of 700 gpm through the water thief. About 150 gpm on the two 1 3/4" with automatic nozzles and 400 gpm through a 2 1/2" auto on 200 or 300 ft of 2 1/2" line. With 7 FF's on the lines this is very possible, and if short handed, use a blitz fire on the 2 1/2" line. (Full utilization of a 1500 gpm engine rated at 750 gpm @ 250 psi)
    When training pump operators in relay techniques, simply exchange 800 ft. of 5" supply (don't lay the 5") but use a 50 ft. section of 3" in its place. At 1500 gpm through the 50 ft. of 3" you will generate 112 psi of friction loss, so all engine pressures and volumes will be correct, but you do not need to lay out the 800 ft. of 5" line. You will be able to get a flow of about 1700 gpm with an engine pressure of 150 psi. Do not attempt to run this volume into a pony suction but adapt the steamer from 6" down to 2 1/2". If you set your engines with the pump panels facing each other, it will be possible for both pump operators to observe the effects of throttling up or down on the other engine. Always route the relay hose around the side away from your pump operators position. When running large volumes of water through smaller hose, be aware of the possibility to tear poorly bonded linings out of the hose. Always check for shaking and/or leaks and find the cause. Have fun & be safe.
    If you still have "Mae West" style of hydrants, a 25 ft. section of 3" will have a friction loss of 12 psi at 700 gpm, so by connecting to the hydrant with dual 3" - 25 footers, simply bring your intake down to 10 psi and you will never cause problems in the water system, since the hydrant will always be at 15 psi or more.
    Last edited by KuhShise; 07-22-2011 at 12:30 PM. Reason: spelling & add paragraph.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    My god- there's still a Dept in the US that uses 3" as a supply line?
    MORE than one. In fact, I believe Harve and most of PG county is still using it. T.C.

  6. #46
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefengineer11 View Post
    As in lots of it.
    STILL can use HARD sleeve, Just NOT the new see thru lightweight stuff. As far as the z's they work GREAT. We have 2 on iur Reel truck along with a half a mile of 5". T.C.

  7. #47
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirt1262 View Post
    Here is a picture of a Z valve. As CE11 mentioned only one company in our area has this valve. It is very efficient for use in line for long relays. Has similiar FL to a large flow hydrasist. Pumps the same as a hydrasist.

    It has an advantage over a hydrasist in that it can also be used at the drafting site. Our LDH Task Force has a procedure to place a second engine at the draft site ready to draft as a back-up in case of a problem with the draft engine - usually cleaning stainers. Since the Z valve has a gate on the side inlets the second engine can be ready and jump into service without a problem. You can pump the boosting inlet without connecting to the boosting engine supply side of the valve. This cannot be done with the hydrasist or the Humat. A jumbo gated WYE 5" x 2 - 5" Stortz will can the same thing for the drafting situation.

    Mike
    Note that the red arrow is the direction of water flow. Hook it up backwards, you WON'T be happy. T.c.

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