1. #1
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    Default Water Supply-What do you connect with?

    When you hit a hydrant, what appliances, hose, and lengths do you use to make connections?

    We typically will hit a hydrant with a 50' x 5" storz with a steamer to storz off the hydrant and a piston intake on the steamer.

    Some lays will begin with a 50' x 3" straight out and straight in.

    We have a couple of 2 1/2" x storz hydrant valves that adapt down to 2 1/2" with a fitting that I'm trying to get the guys to use on hydrant ears. Connecting this valve on the ears would give us the ability to connect another lay off a hydrant without shutting down the flow.

    On one engine we have a 25' x 5" storz that is used if we are close enough.
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    5"x25ft. soft hydrant hose or a 4.5" hydrant thread to 5" storz adapter and up to 300 ft. of 5" LDH depending on location and occupancy. All hydrants have one 2.5" hydrant gate on a 2.5" port "just in case". We also carry 2.5" o 5" Sotrz adapters.

    We add the hydrant gate or ball valve to the 2.5" port for additional supply, but in reality the most often use has been to remove the line from broken hydrants before the water company arrives to shut it down. I know of at least three times in the past 5 years we've needed to use the gate to be able to remove the pumper.
    Last edited by RFDACM02; 02-15-2011 at 06:39 PM.

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    Forward Lay: Engine connects a HUMAT (hydrant assist valve) and lays in 5" LDH to the scene.

    Reverse Lay: Drops 5" at the scene. Whoever is picking it up does whatever with it (usually into their piston relief intake valve.)

    Hydrant Connection for reverse lay: Connect a 25' or 50 length of 5" directly to the plug and into the piston relief intake.

    Hydrant connection to boost a previously laid line:

    1. Connect 25' or 50' section from the discharge of the HUMAT to the intake of the rig.

    2. Connect a 25' or 50' section from the LDH discharge of the rig to the intake of the HUMAT. Open the butterfly valve allowing water into the rig, then boost the pressure into the discharge as required.
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    We forward lay using 5 inch hose. The first section off the engine has the adapter connected to it to hook to our hydrants. In the hydrant bag are 22 1/2 inch gate valves and a 2 1/2 NST female to 5 inch storz adapter.

    We also carry a 25 foot and a 50 foot 5 inch pony section for making up the end of the forward lay or for a direct engine to hydrant connection.
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    We foward lay 4 inch from the hydrant and run it into the piston intake. no gate valves on the 2.5 on the side. Other companies take other hydrants.

    We carry a 25' and 50' setions of 4 inch to make up the difference in the lay or directly to the hydrant.

    If I am on a hydrant pumping in a relay on a larger fire i will run my 25' section off the steamer connection on the hydrant and into the pistion-in-take. Unless the truck i am on has a 6'' soft sleeve then i run that off the hydrant steamer into my steamer connection on the hydrant. Then I will run my front suction one of the 2.5 connections on the hydrant.

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    All engines carry at least 800' of 5" with the hydrant adapter already on the first coupling going to the hydrant. First 2 sections is 50', then 100' after that. You use whatever you need from the hydrant to the PIV. Nothing is used between the hydrant and the PIV.

    I'm not familiar with forward/reverse laying, so I need to be educated. If the first on scene engine goes in, they either hit the hydrant if very close, or wait for another engine to hook up a line from the hydrant to the first engine in. Not sure if the hose is from the first engine working, or the second in/first to hit a hydrant.

    Like I said, I know enough to get myself in trouble. But I am very observant when on scene. I'll ask the guys tomorrow, been wondering this question myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    I'm not familiar with forward/reverse laying, so I need to be educated. If the first on scene engine goes in, they either hit the hydrant if very close, or wait for another engine to hook up a line from the hydrant to the first engine in. Not sure if the hose is from the first engine working, or the second in/first to hit a hydrant.

    Like I said, I know enough to get myself in trouble. But I am very observant when on scene. I'll ask the guys tomorrow, been wondering this question myself.

    FM1
    Forward lay is from the water source (hydrant) to the fire. Reverse lay is from the fire to the water source. It used to be common practice in our area for hose beds to be packed according to the most commonly used lay. If you usually used a forward lay, the hose would be packed with the female coupling out. If you reverse laid, it would be male out. And you always kept a double male/double female coupling set handy.

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    We have always been set-up with reverse lays, and moved to a "two section engine company" approach as outlined by Warren Kimball in his "Fire Attack I & II" books published by NFPA in the 1970's. Originally we had L Model Macks with small (150 gal ) tanks that had to be supplemented with hydrant water asap. The tactics never changed, since the attack engine applied tank water (750 gal now) as quickly as the preconnect lines could be stretched. Bringing this back to the O.P.'s question... We run two hydrant hook-ups on every engine. Officer's side has a 25 ft. - 5" Storz with 4 1/2" hydrant thread preconnected to an inlet with either an internal or external valve and associated relief valve. Driver's side has a 6" by 2 1/2" gated siamese with a 25 ft. section of 3" hose and a hydrant gate preconnected. We also keep two - 25 ft. rolls of 3" in the compartment to supplement the supply from a second 2 1/2" hydrant outlet. We still have some "Mae West" hydrants in service, so the 3" comes in handy in the older parts of the system. Since the second section crew gets dropped at the scene, it is essential that the D.O. can make the hydrant taps quickly when working alone at the plug.
    Last edited by KuhShise; 02-16-2011 at 11:06 AM.

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    We have 2200 ft of 3" supply line (can be split in the middle for dual lays) with a Humat on the end. We drop the Humat and 50' layout pack at they hydrant or layout point and normally forward lay to the scene.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eng34FF View Post
    We have 2200 ft of 3" supply line (can be split in the middle for dual lays) with a Humat on the end. We drop the Humat and 50' layout pack at they hydrant or layout point and normally forward lay to the scene.
    My god- there's still a Dept in the US that uses 3" as a supply line?
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    Nothing complicated.

    A hydrant with a steamer and (2) 2 1/2" ports gets the LDH on the steamer with a threaded-LDH adapter and one of the 2 1/2's gets a hydrant gate.

    A hydrant with no steamer and (2) 2 1/2" ports gets either a 3" (w/ 2 1/2" couplings) to one of the ports and a gate to the other or if we lay a LDH a 2 1/2" - 4"/5" (depending on if the engine carries 4" or 5") with a gate to the other port.

    Single 2 1/2" port hydrants gets a 3" only. LDH is not used on those hydrants.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    My god- there's still a Dept in the US that uses 3" as a supply line?
    We will generally use LDH and not use a 3" supply line on a structure fire unless it is a red low flow hydrant and the LDH would not provide any additional flow.

    We will use a 3" as a supply line for a large trash fire, brush fire or some other non-structural incident where the flow from a 3" is sufficient.

    Reason is simple. Quicker re-pack time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    My god- there's still a Dept in the US that uses 3" as a supply line?
    Yes Virginia, there are real Neanderthals among us....Where did I put my club? I need to smack some FFs over the head on my department for using 2 1/2" and 3"...(Sarcasm intended)
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    We will generally use LDH and not use a 3" supply line on a structure fire unless it is a red low flow hydrant and the LDH would not provide any additional flow.

    We will use a 3" as a supply line for a large trash fire, brush fire or some other non-structural incident where the flow from a 3" is sufficient.

    Reason is simple. Quicker re-pack time.
    Sarcasm aside, we generally do the same. 75 percent of our fires end up with drop ponds anyway in non-hydranted areas. Funny thing is, our coverage area is split 50/50 hydranted. It is the farm houses that generally go up. Older construction I guess.
    A coward stands by and watches wrongs committed without saying a word...Any opinions expressed are purely my own and not necessarily reflective of the views of my former departments

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    My god- there's still a Dept in the US that uses 3" as a supply line?
    Yep, I believe that most of our county still uses 3". I'm not sure, but I think I've read on here that some of the departments up in PG still use 3" as well.

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    DC Fire department still uses 3 inch and 1 1/2 attack lines.

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    Our dept typically uses a forward lay of 5". Both engines and the quint have the 5" bed finished with a 4 1/2" nst x 5" storz gate valve. The hydrant bag carries 2, 2 1/2" ball valve gates, 2 spanners, and a hydrant wrench.

    We remove all caps, and gate all hyrant outlets.

    For occasions when we actually sit on the plug, we carry hydrant lengths of 5" and 3" and usually hook up a 5" roll up, and 2 3" donuts.

    A manifold is carried in the rear cmpt on the pumpers for the odd reverse lay. Our current rescue pumper has been set up for reverse lays, with a 5x 3, 2 1/2" manifold on the end of the 5" bed. I have not looked at this in some time, so it may have changed. ( because we have 2 regular engines and a quint, this rig RARELY is used as an engine for anything other than car fires and mva safety lines. Both of those situations use tank water almost all the time)

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefengineer11 View Post
    Forward lay is from the water source (hydrant) to the fire. Reverse lay is from the fire to the water source. It used to be common practice in our area for hose beds to be packed according to the most commonly used lay. If you usually used a forward lay, the hose would be packed with the female coupling out. If you reverse laid, it would be male out. And you always kept a double male/double female coupling set handy.
    All our 5" LDH have Storz couplings on them. First out end has a hydrant adapter.

    Asked the boys today about this, and they said they had a SOP change a little while ago. Instead of the second engine pulling the first engines hose to the hydrant, the first in is required to lay a line to a hydrant. With the MTD's, they know where to hook up or lay to the hydrant. So from what they said, they do forward lays. But they can also do a reverse lay. Depends on where the hydrant is.

    Sorry for the hi-jack.

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    5" stortz may need a threaded adapter............and it is either 50' if you are at the hydrant ..........if not off comes 100' sections...............to a manual piston intake on the side of the engine.
    Last edited by Weruj1; 02-17-2011 at 09:07 PM. Reason: mostly a FORWARD lay
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    My god- there's still a Dept in the US that uses 3" as a supply line?
    Indeed there is. There is a world beyond your own little sphere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Forward Lay: Engine connects a HUMAT (hydrant assist valve) and lays in 5" LDH to the scene.

    Reverse Lay: Drops 5" at the scene. Whoever is picking it up does whatever with it (usually into their piston relief intake valve.)

    Hydrant Connection for reverse lay: Connect a 25' or 50 length of 5" directly to the plug and into the piston relief intake.

    Hydrant connection to boost a previously laid line:

    1. Connect 25' or 50' section from the discharge of the HUMAT to the intake of the rig.

    2. Connect a 25' or 50' section from the LDH discharge of the rig to the intake of the HUMAT. Open the butterfly valve allowing water into the rig, then boost the pressure into the discharge as required.
    We do the same. In addition the Engine on the hydrant may fully dress it using pony lengths of 3" to the 2.5" sides. Usually not needed for single-bed drops, but for pipeline lays.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weruj1 View Post
    5" stortz may need a threaded adapter............
    Brings up a question.. why don't they use Stortz fittings right on the hydrant?
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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    Brings up a question.. why don't they use Stortz fittings right on the hydrant?
    That is starting to be done in some areas. But as with anything else, tradition and dollar bills.

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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    Brings up a question.. why don't they use Stortz fittings right on the hydrant?
    We are in the same situation, using a Stortz adapter for the hydrant. Most of our trucks are setup with 1000 feet of 5" LDH with Stortz couplings, and a Stortz to 2 1/2 threaded adapter already attached to the last section. The reason for the 2 1/2, there are still quite a few hydrants in our city that don't have steamers, so we are setup for what will work everywhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    Brings up a question.. why don't they use Stortz fittings right on the hydrant?
    Easier and cheaper to buy an adapter for X number of companies than to replace/retrofit(not sure how it works) what is surely a much, much greater number of fire hydrants. There are probably 100's to 1000's times more hydrants than their are companies in most urban and suburban areas.

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