1. #1
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    Default turn out gear help

    We are in the process of getting new turn out gear, and there is some debate in how the closure should be on the coats. Some want Velcro then the d-rings. Others want the zipper then the Velcro. I want to know the pros and cons of each closure. I donít want to who has what, I just want the pros and cons of each.

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    They're all good. I liked the zipper and velcro deal.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Depends on what you are looking for. Speed, ease, and convenience will be found with the zip/velcro type. To be honest I don't know why they ever decided to drag the process out with buttoning, velcroing, and then hooking. Maybe some one more experienced will be able to enlighten me on this.

    I can only tell you I have used both, and much prefer the zip and velcro.

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    Call me crazy but I only like the Hook and D. Its traditional and luckily, my department agrees. Guess I like it for the same reason I like my leather. Just my two cents, you didnt say that I had to make sense
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    Get samples of each, if the vendor wants to sell you gear, they should be able to provide you with test/demo gear. Remember the vendor works for and with you or they work somewhere else.

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    I like the D ring and clips. Takes abuse much better and easier to replace. I don't see them as being any slower than a zipper either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    I like the D ring and clips. Takes abuse much better and easier to replace. I don't see them as being any slower than a zipper either.
    Really? They take abuse better? I have not had a turnout coat in over 20 years that hasn't had a zipper and I have only had one that had to be replaced because the coat tore at the end of the zipper.

    My experience with hooks and D's was they hung up on everything and were a complete pain in the ***. I know some guys seem to like them but for me give me the zipper.

    The reason why hooks and D's are slower than zippers is that they almost always have snaps that must be fastened in conjunction with the hooks and D's, well if you are doing it right anyways.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    The reason why hooks and D's are slower than zippers is that they almost always have snaps that must be fastened in conjunction with the hooks and D's, well if you are doing it right anyways.
    Are you talking about the little buttons infused into the velcro? I must not be doing it right. I have NEVER snapped those. Not once. Not even for inspections. Our hook and D's overlap to the left side of my chest too, so its not like im losing protection by not snapping them. Shoot, I bet it does take longer if you're snapping those.
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    Quote Originally Posted by truckedup133 View Post
    Are you talking about the little buttons infused into the velcro? I must not be doing it right. I have NEVER snapped those. Not once. Not even for inspections. Our hook and D's overlap to the left side of my chest too, so its not like im losing protection by not snapping them. Shoot, I bet it does take longer if you're snapping those.

    Dude roll your eyes all you want. I couldn't care less. But if you are putting the gear on as the manufacturer designed the snaps are supposed to be fastened.

    The snaps are located on the inner flap, the same flap the hooks and D's are on. You are supposed to fasten the snaps, then the hooks and D's, then close the outer flap with the velcro.
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    Our current turn-outs have zippers. Before I received mine I was dead-set against the zippers, the hook and D system had always worked and I never found it lacking. Now, after a year or so of the zipper. I find my new turnouts quicker and easier close and there have been no durability issues.
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    Not really worth arguing over... some like blondes, some like brunettes.

    Bull likes redheads.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    I have problems with the zipper sometimes simply because I learned on the hooks. Not enough to complain or slow me down, it just feels like it takes me forever to get it started.

    An advantage to the zipper is the quick release. Most modern zippers will open very quickly if you pull them up. Simply pull the zipper up, pull the coat apart and the zipper opens along with the Velcro.

    It makes removing the coat in an emergency much easier.

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    Much prefer the zippers to the snaps/hooks. Been wearing a zipper for 15+ years without the first issue in any of my departments.
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    Why not let the guys get what they want? We've done that before.

    We, as a department, have had issues with zippers in the past. We've gone away from them. I can replace a clasp or d-ring much easier than a zipper.

    Last time I checked, the zipper is actually less money up front through our supplier, but not by much.
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    Maintenance on the zipper is easy. Clean them on occasion and apply either some wax to it or rub a bar of soap on it for lubrication.
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    I've been in zipper & velcro for about 7 years now, and I far prefer it to hook & D's because I don't have those pesky metal closures getting cinched up against me when I pack up or getting snagged in tight spots.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Really? They take abuse better? I have not had a turnout coat in over 20 years that hasn't had a zipper and I have only had one that had to be replaced because the coat tore at the end of the zipper.

    My experience with hooks and D's was they hung up on everything and were a complete pain in the ***. I know some guys seem to like them but for me give me the zipper.

    The reason why hooks and D's are slower than zippers is that they almost always have snaps that must be fastened in conjunction with the hooks and D's, well if you are doing it right anyways.
    Maybe your goods spends more time on the rack than ours, We've had a number of zippers break and you have to replace the whole zipper vs. just a clip. Clips getting hung up sounds like poor coat design, our outside flap completely covers the clips and D rings so there is nothing to snag.

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    just my two sense.... i prefer the chicago closure snaps and hooks/d's then a velcro flap covering that. i just recently purchased a new set of gear that has the zipper and it has seemed to slow me down a bit as far as getting my gear on at first but both have their advantages. the zipper being that it completly closes the coat unlike the hook/d that still leaves gaps under the velcro. but in all reality its about the same either way
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    If you have problems with zippers you need to buy a better brand of gear. Not by price or brandname to keep up with the Jones.

    You have hook and dee on your Levis or winter coat?

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    When the dealer came out, he had both styles. One was just velcro on the inside and then the hook and D on the outside. The other was a zipper on the inside then velcro on the outside. Again I am really looking for the pros and cons of each.

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    Went from the zippers to the Chicago style -The flap covers the hooks -not a whole lot of difference between the two.
    ?

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    I ordered my newest set with hooks and Ds, and the latest 4 sets we just received for our guys have zippers. With the brand we went with, they used a non-metal zipper, which from what I can tell is going to hold up much better than the metal ones.

    Like said above though, it is really just preferance. I like my coat with the hooks and Ds. And like the others said, I don't even worry about the buttons under the velcro. The action of fastening the hooks and Ds closes the velcro good enough for me.
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    I have wore both types of coats. What I have found in no matter what brand My department uses the zipper tends to wear out and it takes longer to replace. And should the zipper malfunction it puts the entire coat out of service longer where as should a Clip or a D Break You could still effectively use the coat as protection untill it could be repaired.

    One of the Pros of having the zipper is speed. You can get in and out of it easier that is to say if your calm. Adrenaline is a nasty thing sometimes and it can take you longer to zip your coat if your hands are shaky.

    The zipper coats tend to be lighter by comparison as well because there is not as much metal there as per say a Hook and D. Also when doing your Mayday scenarios and bailout scenarios or God Forbid an actual Bailout You will notice You dont have the clackity clackity clackity noise as your going over something that would normally rub against the hook and D. You wouldnt have the chance of a possible snag either which is more common of Hook and D Coats that dont have a velcro snap.

    Personally I like the hook and D with a velcro flap just because its what fits me. When purchasing PPE You need to take into account what fits you and your departments personal needs. Hope this helps

    Bobby
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    I have a set of the hook and D and a set of zipper gear and love the zipper. Wasn't too convinced about it at first, but now love the zipper.
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    What I don't like about the Hook and D set up is that you are relying on the velcro flap as your primary closure, then the hook and D as a secondary. Becasue with the Velcro you might not be fully closed if you are in a rush and then the hook and D wouldn't also completely seal. That is why I like the zipper then the Velcro flap, because when you close the zipper, you know that it is closed all the way. Also I feel that the zipper is quicker to close and open with gloves on.

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