1. #1
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    Default How's this scenario play out......?

    A Department gives an engineer promotional exam

    1 of the guys is on duty.....the Chief's Office says that he has to either switch with someone, or use 12 hours of vacation time (Vacation must be taken in 12 hour increments) for a 2 hour test.

    I can hardly believe this is proper or legal.
    What if the guy was out of vacation ?

    Couldn't others conspire against him, by not agreeing to work for him and eliminate him from testing ?
    My opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my department or the professional organizations and associations to which I belong


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    You're looking for the answers in the wrong place.

    First, refer to your contract. If you don't find what you are looking for, ask your rep or someone until you get your answer. Perhaps the Chief or another officer can provide the answer, but verify everything.

    Typically... you cannot be penalized for training or testing time and lose work hours. But not every contract is the same and not equal.

    Your answer should be spelled out in your contract.
    HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL

  3. #3
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    Been there, done that. I've tried looking in the right places, that never seems to work.

    It's not addressed in the Contract, the Rep shrugs, the Chief says "You trade times to play in Golf Tournaments, you can trade times to take the test."

    I surely can't see this being a very fair option, a guy has to either use 12 hours of vacation ($300+ worth) for a 2 hour test, or trade with someone.

    What if is one of those guys we all have, who no one particularily cares for...and no one would work for him....And he was out of vacation.

    He has no other option ?

    One more wrinkle....
    When the cops test, the City provides duty relief, but it's not addressed in their contract either.

    Plus, I'm pretty sure they get Krispy Kreme's before the test too.
    My opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my department or the professional organizations and associations to which I belong


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  4. #4
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    File a grievance based on what the police does in that burg!!
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

  5. #5
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    Sounds like your contract REP doesn't know what he is doing. Too bad. One of his first responsibilities is to solve stuff like this. So there is either a fear factor involved, or he isn't good at what he was appointed to do. There is no point having a contract if no one is following it or knows what is in it.

    I think one of your guys should step up and educate themselves and replace him.

    If the Contract doesn't cover it, then the Chief gets to make up the rules.... period. (I love it when that happens, not that I want to see anyone get harmed, but I really get to solve something that isn't in the contract).

    If the Chief has already rendered his opinion, game over.

    You can file a grieve, but it is doomed to fail. I base this on your REP not stepping up. You must evaluate how much the grieve is worth in comparision to getting yourself on HR's radar screen.

    Is it possible that others are conspiring against another? Sure... it happens all the time. But how can you prove that? If the guy (or you) doesn't(don't) play well with others, then it is what it is.

    Everyone has their favorite in deals like this... and that isn't a bad thing. It could come down to who is the best guy and who can I trust the most?

    Promotional Exams are competative, or didn't you know?



    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Assuming there is no relief or options here... think of it another way.

    What is the pay increase for the promotion worth?

    What will you lose in terms of pay in order to take the test?

    What are your chances of having the top score and thus promotion?

    Run those numbers.

    Then calculate how many hours you must work at the new pay level to pay for the time off to take the test.

    There is sometimes a cost involved in order to improve your situation. If you dwell on it, you won't get past the exam. You have to focus on moving forward. Never look back unless you are evaluating the historical lesson learned.

    One thing about it, only you can control your destiny. If you don't try, you are not moving forward.

    Good Luck...
    HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    File a grievance based on what the police does in that burg!!
    Can't.

    A grievance is only applicable to contract violations. What the police do has no bearing on the Fire Dept. as far as grievances go. Only violations of the Firefighters CBA are grievable by firefighters.
    Last edited by sfd1992; 02-16-2011 at 07:38 PM.

  7. #7
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    My reply in the OTHER thread you started about this.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Nothing illegal about it at all.

    On my Dept you are also responsible for getting the time off for a promotional exam. We could easily have 20+ personnel taking a test that would need to be released. The FD isn't going to hire OT for all of them, or shut down a half dozen companies.

    If you have a contract with language that allows for on-duty personnel to be released to take promotional exams, than it would be a violation of the CBA, and subject to the grievance process. Absent that, it's up to each individual member to arrange their own relief, or take vacation.

    Out of vacation? A promotional exam doesn't usually come up out of the blue. Plan vacation time accordingly.

    As far as others refusing to work for him, and keeping him from taking the test? It's kind of a d**K thing to do, but no one is required to trade a shift if they don't want to.

    Sucks to be that guy, but without a policy or contract language addressing it he's probably going to be SOL.

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    That's a tough one. The department's position is that they are not going to pay overtime for a member to take a promotional exam. Could people conspire against him, well I guess so???

    The other side of the coin is that every department is strapped. The FC's job is to be fiscally responsible for the pubic's tax dollars. It looks badly to read in the local newspaper that people were paid overtime while someone competed in a promotional exam.
    Paul Lepore
    Division Chief
    Aspiringfirefighters.com
    AspiringFireOfficers.com

  9. #9
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    Chief Lepore is correct. It sucks but it sounds like there isn't much you can do. I do have to agree about his comment. I personally was willing (and did) whatever I could to get promoted. Its a messed up situation, but I'm sure its worth a trade or 12hrs of time off in order to have a chance at a promotion and bettering your life.
    Fire Service Interview questions - The blog that has REAL interview questions for firefighters, Engineers, Lieutenants, and Captains !

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