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    Default Who uses Quints....??? Serious question!!!

    I can't really go into details on why I am asking at this moment, but, if you can answer my question, I'd appreciate it. Hopefully you'll understand what I am asking.

    What I need, or would like to know is, what is the balance between Career vs Volly dept.'s on the usage of Quints. Are Quints more favorable for the Volly dept's so they can buy one rig to do 2 things, instead of buying 2 rigs, and only needing one per a specific call. Basically, to save money. How many Career dept's use a Quint, and why???

    I'm not asking that you got it to fit your needs, but the difference between Career and Volly dept's, as to which one would have the most Quints.

    I don't mean this to be a loaded question. Just who favors the use of Quints.

    FM1

    ** I will explain later, just can't do it right now.
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

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    In Virginia, our bell curve is a little off, since we have the City of Richmond with it's 20 quints (all career department). Truth be told, there aren't a lot of departments in VA that are using quints as "quints," although there are a lot of aerials with pumps & tanks that are still just considered to be a truck company, and are dispatched as such.

    I've done a ton of traveling and photography throughout our fine Commonwealth, and I'd have to say that most of the few quints we have are being operated by career departments.
    Last edited by BoxAlarm187; 02-16-2011 at 02:39 AM.
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    My career FD has 2 75 foot quints. They were used to eliminate 2 engines and 2 ladder trucks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    In Virginia, our bell curve is a little off, since we have the City of Richmond with it's 20 quints (all career department). Truth be told, there aren't a lot of departments in VA that are using quints as "quints," although there are a lot of aerials with pumps & tanks that are still just considered to be a truck company, and are dispatched as such.

    I've done a ton of traveling and photography throughout our fine Commonwealth, and I'd have to say that most of the few quints we have are being operated by career departments.
    Out of curiosity, what is the manpower on your quints??? If you have a worker, single worker (box alarm), how many quints are sent???

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    My career FD has 2 75 foot quints. They were used to eliminate 2 engines and 2 ladder trucks.
    How well has that worked out for you guys??? Both for manpower and how they are used??? Do they also respond with EMS calls???

    FM1
    Last edited by FIREMECH1; 02-16-2011 at 04:24 AM.
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

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    Career department has 2 quints and 2 straight trucks. All are utilized as truck companies first and foremost. All are housed with a pump company. Low staffing levels may see the pump companies in those houses browned out with the quints taking on their workload, it doesn't work out so well.

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    The city (career) we are adjacent to has six 4-person straight truck companies. The surrounding departments that run quints are combination. Four run the quints as first-due engines, we run the quint as a second piece but it will be designated as the first due for some specific occupancies in the near future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    Out of curiosity, what is the manpower on your quints??? If you have a worker, single worker (box alarm), how many quints are sent?
    Check with board member RFD21C, he works there (I'm with a department next door). Listening on the radio though, I believe most box alarms get 4 or 5 quints, staffed with 4 each. They also get one of the three rescue companies. I'll let him provide specifics, though.
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    We have 2 quints that were supposed to be staffed with 5. 5 Crew members are rarely assigned and normal minimum manning is 3. 5 crew members on these units is impractical as there is far from a decent amount of room in the rear. I think the quints are like a multi-tool they do a whole lot of everything, but they do not do any thing well. That being said I don't think I would ever but any type of aerial device without a fire pump.
    Fyrtrks

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    Firemech: We are a volunteer dept. that has gradually evolved from a "City Service" Mack (1936) to a 75 ft Snorkel (1967) to a 100 ft KME tower (2007) with a 2,000 gpm pump & 300 gal tank. The reason for the move to Quint, was because it was always necessary to assign an engine to the Snorkel to supply the master stream device. By using a quint we could effectively use the engine as either a water supply (our hydrant spacing is 1,000 ft.) or assign it to attack status on on the C side. We continue to operate this as a ladder (second due on structures) and not as a combination attack/ladder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KuhShise View Post
    Firemech: We are a volunteer dept. that has gradually evolved from a "City Service" Mack (1936) to a 75 ft Snorkel (1967) to a 100 ft KME tower (2007) with a 2,000 gpm pump & 300 gal tank. The reason for the move to Quint, was because it was always necessary to assign an engine to the Snorkel to supply the master stream device. By using a quint we could effectively use the engine as either a water supply (our hydrant spacing is 1,000 ft.) or assign it to attack status on on the C side. We continue to operate this as a ladder (second due on structures) and not as a combination attack/ladder.
    Basically you got a quint to work as a ladder without the need of an attack pumper to supply water to it. Got it.

    From the posts, alot more career dept's have quints, than I thought, or imagined. Really surprised to see that, to be honest.

    Why the question/info:

    The problem is complex for our area. Especially when EMS runs are involved. Out of 27 stations, 16 have med units. 7 of them have an engine and a aerial. If you replace an aerial and an engine with a quint, you take one or the other out of contention to be a life or property savior. All EMS runs are accompanied with one or the other. Use a quint, game over.

    Found out last night, that the City Council approved our request for 3 engines and an aerial. Good news.

    To see how bad our inventory is, you gotta see this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kLqe...er_profilepage

    Thanks all for the posts, much obliged.

    FM1
    Last edited by FIREMECH1; 02-17-2011 at 03:10 AM.
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

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    $1.89 mil sounds awfully thin for a ladder and 3 engines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefengineer11 View Post
    $1.89 mil sounds awfully thin for a ladder and 3 engines.
    Who is building them?
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    Quote Originally Posted by npfd801 View Post
    Who is building them?
    Toyne will be building them. If interested, I have the bid specs for the engines and ladder. Otherwise, here is the .pdf for those that made bids for the equipment. The aerial is a single axle, 75 footer.

    http://www.cityofomaha.org/cityclerk...5/Fire/162.pdf

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

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    We are a small rural fire department with automatic aid with four other fire departments. We just got a 55' telesquirt with a 1,250 pump and 500gallon tank. It is our main unit and we use it in the quint concept. We decided this would give us and our automatic aid departments more option depending on the fire.
    Our fire district is all one story homes usually between 1,000 and 2,000 sq feet. We have no commerical areas at all. We also run mostly water shuttle for water supply. We have only had the unit 7 months so we haven't used the ladder for roof venting yet but we have certainly been training alot on it. Most of the firefighter show up POV.
    On the automatic aid fire departments have a town of 4,000 with stores commerial areas, churches and much larger homes. We are the only "ladder" in the county. Over the last several years the county as had some comercial fire were an arial was really need but none was available. So far it has worked well for us.

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    Vol department, 2 stations. 1 station has 105' Pierce TL and an engine. Other station now has 2 engines.

    Station 1 runs rescue engine first due, station 2 runs the TL first due.

    It is designed/operated as a ladder that can pump it self. On occasion, like this morning, it can/will operate as an engine.

    No EMS runs for the department.

    Crew on the TL is daytime 3, evening/night 6.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    Out of curiosity, what is the manpower on your quints??? If you have a worker, single worker (box alarm), how many quints are sent???

    FM1

    My department uses what is call the total quint model. We switched from the traditional Engine and Truck model in about 1998. I am not exactly sure as to the specifics on the why and what nots, I was not on the department back then. Here is the link to our website that talks about the cost savings, changes to the department from the swithc etc.
    http://www.richmondgov.com/fire/QuintConcept.aspx


    On a standard full assignment we get
    4 quints staffed with 3 firefighters and 1 officer
    1 rescue staffed with 4 firefighters and 1 officer
    1 BC
    1 Safety Officer (fire dispatched as a building fire, inside gas leak, etc. not for AFAs)

    Upgrade to a working fire (defined as any fire that requires more then 1 hand line to be pulled)
    2 quints
    1 BC
    1 Air Light truck Staffed by 1 firefighter
    PD, EMS, Investigator, Power Company

    Total manpower for a working fire: 33 including Chiefs, Safety Officer, Air Light

    2nd and 3rd Alarm is
    2 quints
    1 Rescue
    1 BC

    4th and Higher
    2 quints

    Our fire ground policy is used to dictate truck and Engine roles
    1st in quint is fire attack
    2nd in quint is Truck Company
    3rd In quint is back up fire attack
    4th in quint is RIT

    Rescue is primary search and supports the truck company

    5th and 6th Quint Stage unless other wise assigned

    We have 20 Quint Companies and three Rescue Companies, 4 BCs, 1 Airlight,

    Total manpower assigned to each shift is 127. Obviously Some people are off on sick or vacation Minimum manpower is 106.

    City of 200,000 about 40,000 calls a year. BLS 1st response (with 1 ALS first response for tech rescue assignments). a little less then 50% EMS call (give or take)

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    Cool Quints

    My Career Department and many Departments around us run Quints. The DOD loves Quints as far as I know. The more I think about it, the only FDs I know that run a "True Truck" locally are Victorville FD (now SB County FD), LAFD and I'm sure there's a FD that runs them that I can't recall.

    With times as they are financially, professionally I see the "True Truck" disappearing and more FDs grasping and accepting the concept of the Quint. Just because you have a Quint does not mean it can not operate as a Truck, my Career FD does it and it works well for us.

    As far as the basic specs, it's 100' with 500 gallons of water and (4) personnel. No M/As for us since we went ALS and the Medic Engines handle those. How the Quint is used and looked at is based upon the atmosphere of the FD that is running it. My suggestion is if you get it, run it as an Expandable Truck Company as opposed to an Engine with a Ladder (trust me, it's a thought process that might come-up).

    As far as how many we get on each Alarm Assignment, we currently have (1) on initial dispatches and I'm hoping we get our heads out of a dark, stinky place and go to true "Alarm Assignments" in place of what we have now. Any additional Trucks have to be specifically ordered individually. I know, I know not the most effective idea..... But there is change coming, and hopefully it's real soon.

    Hope this helps.....
    Last edited by mikeyboy; 02-18-2011 at 12:18 AM.
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    Life on the Truck (Quint) is good.....

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    Our volly dept has a quint- an RD Murray 105' w/a 1500 gpm Hale and a 300 gal tank. We primarily run it as a truck company. It's first out in the village, so quite often the lines will get pulled of it too.

    Most of the county depts that have trucks run quints, or at least run ladders with a pump. One of our neighbors has both- a 75' quint, and a 100' stick, both Pierce. Another has a 100' quint and 2 or 3 telesquirts.

    The City of Rochester runs all truck cos. as quints and has for years. They were running both quint/midi companies AND truck companies (with quints), but recently have been getting rid of the midi's, and going with engine/ truck houses. The ladders are all E-Ones. The latest design features front bumper crosslays. They're run as trucks first and foremost. RFD has always had regular engine co's. ( they recently caused a bit of a stir by breaking their longtime all E-One habit, and buying a new KME engine)

    I don't know current staffing levels off hand. They did used to staff the Quint/midi companies with 6, and the engines with 4. They do provide first responder EMS city wide, with transport being handled by contracted private ambulance ( Rural Metro, or Monroe.)

    So, to answer your question, in my corner of New York, it's pretty much even volly vs career as far as quints go. AND both tend to use quints as enhanced capability ladders- not as combo companies. With the truck getting the prime real estate, it's just nice to have a pump and lines available front and center.

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    We have quints but operate under the "truck" and "engine" model. They bought quints so the "trucks" could handle car/dumpster/etc fires on their own and if by some chance the "truck" got to a fire first and the engines were tied up they could put some water on a fire. At a fire they operate as a truck company unless there are extenuating circumstances.

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    RFD21C... Looks like you guys have a well established system with the quints. Thanks a ton-full for the detailed info, helped alot on how you guys operate with an all quint department.

    Thanks mikeyboy, Nozzle nut 22, and the rest that posted. You've all opened up my eyes quite a bit, compared to how things are done here. Great information.

    Compared to RFD21C, IF, we ever do get a quint, manpower is to be 6. But, I don't really see us getting one in my lifetime.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

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    FireMech1,

    Congratulations on your fleet upgrades. Toyne will build you some solid units and Toyne is 100% American owned which is always a plus.
    Last edited by SFD_E73_RET; 02-18-2011 at 03:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by volfireman034 View Post
    We are a small rural fire department with automatic aid with four other fire departments. We just got a 55' telesquirt with a 1,250 pump and 500gallon tank. It is our main unit and we use it in the quint concept. We decided this would give us and our automatic aid departments more option depending on the fire.
    Our fire district is all one story homes usually between 1,000 and 2,000 sq feet. We have no commerical areas at all. We also run mostly water shuttle for water supply. We have only had the unit 7 months so we haven't used the ladder for roof venting yet but we have certainly been training alot on it. Most of the firefighter show up POV.
    On the automatic aid fire departments have a town of 4,000 with stores commerial areas, churches and much larger homes. We are the only "ladder" in the county. Over the last several years the county as had some comercial fire were an arial was really need but none was available. So far it has worked well for us.
    I in no way mean to sound like a smartass. Do you know what your tips loads are for a squirt and that they are not designed to be used as a ladder truck?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rm1524 View Post
    I in no way mean to sound like a smartass. Do you know what your tips loads are for a squirt and that they are not designed to be used as a ladder truck?
    Our 50' Teleboom's tip load was 300lbs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Our 50' Teleboom's tip load was 300lbs.
    I was trying to make sure they know what the tip load on one is. They would not be the first to mistake a squirt for a ladder. I can't recall all the figures off the top of my head but I know they are no where close to what a 'real' ladder is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SFD_E73_RET View Post
    FireMech1,

    Congratulations on your fleet upgrades. Toyne will build you some solid units and Toyne is 100% American owned which is always a plus.
    Thanks neighbor, they are really needed. Our main fleet of aerials are 11 years old, and showing their age. As for the Toynes, we got 3 of them 2 years ago, and others even older. I like what they put out in Breda. Even happier we are staying with the Spartan Gladiator chassis'. Hopefully this next set of engines will put the school bu...., err, yellow engines to pasture. (pointed at you know who-s.)

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

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