1. #26
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    The only RH pump panel we had was on a '49 ALF 700 series. It functioned as well as the drivers side, just had to remember to run to the other side. Had some members feel this took extra time but not a real issue. After being used to getting out of the cab and walking back to teh panel with the other units, you would occasionally see an engineer walk to the RH panel and have a weird look on his face then take off to the other side. Back then life was simple - only the 2 steamers intakes + 2 Auxilary intakes + 4 - 2.5" discharges. No plumbing nightmares.

    As noted earlier, the 2.5" max on the operators side places LDH either in the street or out the back (Front most likely will have significant FL issues). Another issue for Hale pumps is the 4" discharge opening on the casting is the RH forward opening of the casting. To get maximum flow for a 5" you may need a manifold with multiple valves to feed the LDH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    I will comment on our Toyne right/officer side pump panel. This could have be the single largest mistake we made on this truck. It's not a huge issue, but does lead to a few operational problems.

    We couldn't decide which side to go with, as it was suggested that the officers' side was further from the travel lane. Our normal would be to shut down the road all together if the truck was being pumped or equipment is being used out of the compartments (no multi-lane highways). We decided that since we'd set the truck up with the "fire side" on the officer's side and the rescue side being on the driver's side (rescue pumper) the panel would naturally be on the fire side, which also happened to have the most space available.

    The issues:
    1. We had not considered that NFPA requires the exhaust to exit on the opposite side of as the pump panel. This required a move to the driver's side which changes the in station exhaust venting. We now have only one bay this engine can sit in connected to the system, and no ability to connect while in other houses for coverage.

    2. The bigger issue is that we run a lot of EMS back-up runs, assisting the crew with lifting and extra hands on codes, unconscious, serious trauma, etc. This ends up with the engine not blocking the lane most of the time and putting the pump panel close to the snow banks (real issue this winter!) and the curb. The curb problem is that the operator has that pesky 6" trip just behind them all the time. It's real easy to back up and trip or roll your ankle when you're parked within 24" of the curb.

    3. Lastly, is the minor slowing of the operator having to pass to the opposite side of the apparatus to engage the pump when working assists. During winter months the operator engages the pump and throttles up every time he/she exits the engine, but their assigned tools are nearest the cab on their side, forcing them to double back after doing any pump work.

    In the end we'll definitely go to the driver's side on all future panels (we'll never do another top mount) just for the exhaust and curb issues.
    Hehe,SEE? We've had it RIGHT for over half a century(left MM panels). T.C.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    There are many out there.
    Adam has one on their recent Crimson. It's a rear mount with panel on rt rear compartment.
    NOT Crimson..........TOYNE. Sheesh,T.C.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    NOT Crimson..........TOYNE. Sheesh,T.C.
    Ya ! My bad.
    I was talking to you know who and had crimson on my brain.
    We'll stay with our top mounts here >Helps to keep the engineer up out of the frozen slop and away from all the hoses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nozzle nut 22 View Post
    One issue I haven't seen mentioned: LDH supply lines. Either OSHA or NFPA was requiring no big lines going into the operator's pump panel last I heard. Going with an officer's side panel means your supply lines are always hanging out in the street, where they block access for other rigs and invite slack jawed retreads to run over them. It removes the option of plugging them in curbside, where they're out of the way. Assuming, of course, that the fire is on the right side of the street...

    As far as the exhaust issue goes, why not just get vertical stacks?
    Only one of our discharges (1.75") ports out to the side of the engine, the rest are out the back and there's a 2.5" reduced with a gated wye on the front bumper. So our supply lines are all straight in the rear In fact this way it's far easier to make a hydrant than aligning a side discharge port with a hydrant steamer facing the street.

    As for vertical stacks, we already had a Magnagrip system and none of our other apparatus have vertical exhaust, so it would have been even more problematic for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Hehe,SEE? We've had it RIGHT for over half a century(left MM panels). T.C.
    You have me there. I guess we had it right for awhile too, but needed to re-invent the wheel, though I'm sold on the rearmount! Hey am I gonna be able to get a Big Mac over there in the Mountains or are you guys too uppity for franchises too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    You have me there. I guess we had it right for awhile too, but needed to re-invent the wheel, though I'm sold on the rearmount! Hey am I gonna be able to get a Big Mac over there in the Mountains or are you guys too uppity for franchises too!
    Oh,it goes WAY past Big Mac. IF they enact it, we're SCREWED! NOHING can grow,nothing(of any size or formula) can come in. REALLY poorly thought out. we get more than our fair share of wingbats that think they have to come to Town and do it THEIR way. Even though OUR way has worked well for over two hundred years. T.c.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    Ya ! My bad.
    I was talking to you know who and had crimson on my brain.
    We'll stay with our top mounts here >Helps to keep the engineer up out of the frozen slop and away from all the hoses.
    My "other" dept has top mounts. Not so excited over 'em that we're apt to buy one anytime soon. Our operators don't stand in slop,they have pull outs. You REALLY don't get out much do you? T.C.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    My "other" dept has top mounts. Not so excited over 'em that we're apt to buy one anytime soon. Our operators don't stand in slop,they have pull outs. You REALLY don't get out much do you? T.C.
    I do get around actually. I even made it over to your side of the county last week on a trip through to NH. Had to run up to Conway for a friends party Tuesday evening.

    The way this winters going , you need the top mount to see over the snowbanks!

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    We just melt 'em down.hehe T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    We just melt 'em down.hehe T.C.
    The houses or the snowbanks. :-}

    You guy have certainly been busy lately. I keep seeing your face on TV.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RKSmith163 View Post
    I'm for a touch panel on the doghouse for cold weather.
    I'm for the pump operator freezing his buttocks off out in the weather with the rest of us.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    We just melt 'em down.hehe T.C.
    If you figure out a way to use all that exhaust regen heat to melt snow, no more snowbanks!

    C6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nozzle nut 22 View Post
    One issue I haven't seen mentioned: LDH supply lines. Either OSHA or NFPA was requiring no big lines going into the operator's pump panel last I heard.
    I haven't heard of this. I'm not trying pin you down, but do you have a reference source on this?

    It would make more sense to keep discharge lines away from the operator as opposed to intakes due to higher pressures. But when do OSHA and NFPA often make sense?

    C6

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    The houses or the snowbanks. :-}

    You guy have certainly been busy lately. I keep seeing your face on TV.
    When you are a popular problem solver these things happen. Lucky,I only had to do ONE up close and personal. I'd rather be with my crew and let 'em catch my GOOD side. T.C.

  16. #41
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    Command 6

    The NFPA 1901 2003 discusses operators panel discharges

    16.7.9.1 No discharge outlet larger than 2.5" shall be located at the operators panel

    16.7.9.2 allows >2.5" top discharge outlet for top mount panels if it is attached directly to a deck gun

    Mike

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    I can't remember where exactly that rule came from... I just remember it causing a bit of consternation, as many rigs carried the hydrant length in a drivers side running board well. Not to mention leaving those of us w/o a front or rear suction no way to add a second LDH supply line.

    I think the idea was:

    A) that 5" line was a big tripping hazard.
    B) Several people had been seriously injured when Storz couplings came undone at the pump panel ( in the days before locking couplings), or when an add on ldh valve failed at the swivel. They generally operate under less pressure, yes, but the flow is so much higher. That's a lot of weight and force coming loose!

    In general, most of us prefer to have that big line hooked up some place other than the pump panel- it just gets in the way. Plus- better safe than sorry. However, sometimes you need to put it there to keep it out of the street, or to add a second line. Locking couplings, good equipment maintenance, and better intake valve designs have minimized the risks of a catastrophic failure. That blighter Murphy has a way of showing up at the worst times, though...

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    Have had more 5" disconnects since going to the locking tabs.

    Some of us old learned to pump by leaning on the supply line. When it gets soft, your close to the max you flow.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nozzle nut 22 View Post
    I can't remember where exactly that rule came from... I just remember it causing a bit of consternation, as many rigs carried the hydrant length in a drivers side running board well. Not to mention leaving those of us w/o a front or rear suction no way to add a second LDH supply line.

    The rule only references large diameter DISCHARGES on the drivers side and says nothing about using large diameter hose for an INTAKE connection on the driver's side.

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