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  1. #181
    MembersZone Subscriber ffscm72's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=FireMedic049;1284730]Sorry, but those don't count. What you seem to not be grasping is the importance of one key word in this part of the discussion. A word that I've highlighted and underlined multiple times - "secure".

    The head tilt, chin lift and OPA/NPA can certainly be used to open the airway, but they don't secure it and that's what you don't seem to be grasping.

    If the patient can aspirate his/her stomach contents, then the airway has not been secured.[quote]
    it opens the airway. if that all you got, then that's all you got.

    I'm really not sure why you are having such a hard time accepting that EMT and Paramedic are not the same job. You seem to be able to grasp that there is a difference, but don't seem to be able to accept that this translates into them being different jobs. At this point, either you are extremely obtuse or you're a (insert your favorite derogatory term).
    I'm not really sure why you can't grasp the reality that you are an E.M.T. If you want to be more than, then by all means please do so. Otherwise your job is the same as mine assess, treat, transport. You've got more tools at your disposal obviously. But the job is the same. I repeat so you can understand Assess the signs & symptoms as they present (with me so far), treat the signs & symptoms within your local protocols (write this down), transport the patient so a higher level of care can possibly find the cause of the signs & symptoms (there is a test after this)

    Test time:
    Your job as an E.M.T is:
    a.)assess, treat, transport
    b.)assess, treat, transport
    c.)assess, treat, transport
    d.) all of the above

    This isn't about "pride". This isn't about going beyond the scope of practice. This isn't about any of the other BS you've spewed in this thread. This is simply black and white fact that they are different jobs. To view them in such overly broad simplistic terms (as a Fire/EMS provider), to be "the same job" is as disrespectful and ignorant as the public still referring to EMS providers as "ambulance drivers".
    Apparently this is about pride for you or you wouldn't be adamant about showing off the amount of skills you have instead of just accepting that "yes, although our skills are at different levels, we still are just here to aid the patient w/ what we are given."

    To not view EMS in it's simplest form is arrogant & eventually stupid.
    I believe i'm about done w/ this thread being we are just going back & forth w/ no end in sight...lol So I will leave w/ this.

    Even though we don't agree on this, I can only hope you stay safe & sound.
    "Courage is the resistance to fear, the mastery of fear, not the lack of fear." Mark Twain
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." Uknown


  2. #182
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    Test time:
    Your job as an E.M.T is:
    a.)assess, treat, transport
    b.)assess, treat, transport
    c.)assess, treat, transport
    d.) all of the above
    In New Jersey (for most medics) it would be

    e.) None of the above.

    They don't transport.

    So, let me ask my question again....

    You Assess and Treat a person for a nose bleed, you are:

    a.) EMT
    b.) Police Officer
    c.) Boy Scout
    d.) Security Guard
    e.) All of the above
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  3. #183
    Forum Member L-Webb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    In New Jersey (for most medics) it would be

    e.) None of the above.

    They don't transport.

    So, let me ask my question again....

    You Assess and Treat a person for a nose bleed, you are:

    a.) EMT
    b.) Police Officer
    c.) Boy Scout
    d.) Security Guard
    e.) All of the above
    Don't transport? I'm confused.
    Bring enough hose.

  4. #184
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    [QUOTE=ffscm72;1284766][QUOTE=FireMedic049;1284730]Sorry, but those don't count. What you seem to not be grasping is the importance of one key word in this part of the discussion. A word that I've highlighted and underlined multiple times - "secure".

    The head tilt, chin lift and OPA/NPA can certainly be used to open the airway, but they don't secure it and that's what you don't seem to be grasping.

    If the patient can aspirate his/her stomach contents, then the airway has not been secured.
    it opens the airway. if that all you got, then that's all you got.



    I'm not really sure why you can't grasp the reality that you are an E.M.T. If you want to be more than, then by all means please do so. Otherwise your job is the same as mine assess, treat, transport. You've got more tools at your disposal obviously. But the job is the same. I repeat so you can understand Assess the signs & symptoms as they present (with me so far), treat the signs & symptoms within your local protocols (write this down), transport the patient so a higher level of care can possibly find the cause of the signs & symptoms (there is a test after this)

    Test time:
    Your job as an E.M.T is:
    a.)assess, treat, transport
    b.)assess, treat, transport
    c.)assess, treat, transport
    d.) all of the above



    Apparently this is about pride for you or you wouldn't be adamant about showing off the amount of skills you have instead of just accepting that "yes, although our skills are at different levels, we still are just here to aid the patient w/ what we are given."

    To not view EMS in it's simplest form is arrogant & eventually stupid.
    I believe i'm about done w/ this thread being we are just going back & forth w/ no end in sight...lol So I will leave w/ this.

    Even though we don't agree on this, I can only hope you stay safe & sound.
    Brother I have tried to agree with you on some things and disagreed on some others, but if you believe EMS is simple and anyone can do it than you must be in one great area. We aren't just here to aid the pt like I just put a band aid on my 4 y/o knees from falling off his bike. I had a young lady just last night od on herion, bls got on scene and found her in cardiac arrest. They started CPR and threw in a king airway, they then called for ALS and beat foot down the road. We met them and started ALS care, after 2 mg of narcan she pulled the airway and was talking and ready to refuse by the time we got the ED. In your above statement you said that we transport so the ER doctor can find the cause of the signs and symptoms, I corrected the symptoms in the field, I love the bls crew we met and have great friends on their service, but if an ALS crew would not have intercepted them this young lady would be dead. So keep saying we have the same job, it is not the same my friend.

  5. #185
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    To not view EMS in it's simplest form is arrogant & eventually stupid.
    If that's the case, why do we attend fire service seminars, training events, webinars, websites, read magazine, read books, view videos, get new certifications, and listen to the fire service leaders? Shouldn't we just be content just viewing the fire service "in it's simplest form" and not worry about the rest of the hazards we face?

    What's the difference between fire & EMS in this case?
    Career Fire Captain
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    Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

  6. #186
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L-Webb View Post
    Don't transport? I'm confused.
    In New Jersey it is a relatively new thing that our Paramedics transport. In most cases, they respond in an SUV and ride along with the BLS (who transport).

    So, they don't transport.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  7. #187
    Forum Member L-Webb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    In New Jersey it is a relatively new thing that our Paramedics transport. In most cases, they respond in an SUV and ride along with the BLS (who transport).

    So, they don't transport.
    Got it. There are some places here that do that as well
    Bring enough hose.

  8. #188
    MembersZone Subscriber tree68's Avatar
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    In NY paramedics don't transport - they let the ambulance do that.

    They do, however, treat the patients being transported in those ambulances.

    In my area, ambulances are usually staffed at the highest level available - the gold standard being paramedic, of course. No commercial ambulance service worth its salt staffs ambulances with anything less than one paramedic. The second crew member may be another paramedic, or some lower level. Most busy vollie/combination squads are the same - especially those who staff crews in-house.

    If it's a BLS call, the paramedic often leaves treatment to the EMT and drives the rig to the hospital.

    If a patient requires a higher level of care than what the crew on board can provide, they call for a hook-up with the suitable level - generally a paramedic.

    Not all of our squads are certified for narcotics, regardless of their level of care, so some hook-ups are for pain meds or Valium.
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    Sorry, but those don't count. What you seem to not be grasping is the importance of one key word in this part of the discussion. A word that I've highlighted and underlined multiple times - "secure".

    The head tilt, chin lift and OPA/NPA can certainly be used to open the airway, but they don't secure it and that's what you don't seem to be grasping.

    If the patient can aspirate his/her stomach contents, then the airway has not been secured.
    it opens the airway. if that all you got, then that's all you got.
    But that's not even being disputed. The question was about SECURING the airway not opening it.



    I'm not really sure why you can't grasp the reality that you are an E.M.T. If you want to be more than, then by all means please do so.
    Maybe it's because the reality is that I'm not an "E.M.T." I just looked at my certification card from my state and it says that I'm a "PARAMEDIC". No where on the card does it say "EMT" or "Emergency Medical Technician". So, I guess that means I'm already "more" than an "E.M.T.".

    Otherwise your job is the same as mine assess, treat, transport. You've got more tools at your disposal obviously. But the job is the same. I repeat so you can understand Assess the signs & symptoms as they present (with me so far), treat the signs & symptoms within your local protocols (write this down), transport the patient so a higher level of care can possibly find the cause of the signs & symptoms (there is a test after this)

    Test time:
    Your job as an E.M.T is:
    a.)assess, treat, transport
    b.)assess, treat, transport
    c.)assess, treat, transport
    d.) all of the above
    Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah



    Apparently this is about pride for you or you wouldn't be adamant about showing off the amount of skills you have instead of just accepting that "yes, although our skills are at different levels, we still are just here to aid the patient w/ what we are given."
    No, this isn't about "pride" for me. This is about "ignorance" - YOUR ignorance!

    To not view EMS in it's simplest form is arrogant & eventually stupid.
    Then I'll happily be "arrogant & eventually stupid" rather than be what you are!

  10. #190
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Default Repost. I think it was missed.

    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    Test time:
    Your job as an E.M.T is:
    a.)assess, treat, transport
    b.)assess, treat, transport
    c.)assess, treat, transport
    d.) all of the above
    In New Jersey (for most medics) it would be

    e.) None of the above.

    They don't transport.

    So, let me ask my question again....

    You Assess and Treat a person for a nose bleed, you are:

    a.) EMT
    b.) Police Officer
    c.) Boy Scout
    d.) Security Guard
    e.) All of the above
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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