1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    The job is not the same. Pick ANY agency's job descriptions and you will see differences. There is a clearly different level of expectation in regards to how they "assess and treat". The transport part being the only thing that is probably the same.

    The goal of requiring a college degree is to set a base threshold of education with the idea that you are bringing people into the paramedic program who have a higher chance of not only passing but excelling.

    That's not a guarantee... granted. However, people who have graduated and received a degree (Associates or otherwise) have demonstrated the ability to study and achieve at a higher level by using their own personal initiative.
    I'm sorry i just can't agree w/ you boss. The job is the same no matter where you go. U can say that i just don't get it because i'm only a Basic. But I've been doing this to dang long & riding w/ the best Medics out there w/ the same point of view. If other medics in other states want to make it out more than what it is. So be it partner. You medics (not all of you) are just fooling yourself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    I'm sorry i just can't agree w/ you boss. The job is the same no matter where you go. U can say that i just don't get it because i'm only a Basic. But I've been doing this to dang long & riding w/ the best Medics out there w/ the same point of view. If other medics in other states want to make it out more than what it is. So be it partner. You medics (not all of you) are just fooling yourself.
    So we can be absolutely clear about this..........

    Is your position that "the job is the same no matter where you go" based on the extremely broad view that we all assess our patient, provide treatment (no matter how little or how much treatment is required) and then transport to a hospital where we turn over care to RNs and DRs therefore, "the job is the same"?

    Is it your position that the "Paramedic" level is "so easy that even a caveman can do it" because we have treatment protocols, written by physicians, that you believe are absolute and leave nothing to the discretion of the paramedic, therefore we are just an "EMT (w/ more responsibility in respects to drugs)"?

    Is it your position that anybody who thinks that the job of a Paramedic is not the same job as that of an EMT, making the paramedic level out to be more than what it is and therefore we must be fooling ourselves and not know our role?

    Simple yes or no answer are sufficient.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    So we can be absolutely clear about this..........

    Is your position that "the job is the same no matter where you go" based on the extremely broad view that we all assess our patient, provide treatment (no matter how little or how much treatment is required) and then transport to a hospital where we turn over care to RNs and DRs therefore, "the job is the same"?

    Is it your position that the "Paramedic" level is "so easy that even a caveman can do it" because we have treatment protocols, written by physicians, that you believe are absolute and leave nothing to the discretion of the paramedic, therefore we are just an "EMT (w/ more responsibility in respects to drugs)"?

    Is it your position that anybody who thinks that the job of a Paramedic is not the same job as that of an EMT, making the paramedic level out to be more than what it is and therefore we must be fooling ourselves and not know our role?

    Simple yes or no answer are sufficient.
    Yes....oh wait, you weren't talking to me. My bad, I'm just gonna go pre mix some dopamine

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    So we can be absolutely clear about this..........

    Is your position that "the job is the same no matter where you go" based on the extremely broad view that we all assess our patient, provide treatment (no matter how little or how much treatment is required) and then transport to a hospital where we turn over care to RNs and DRs therefore, "the job is the same"?
    yes

    Is it your position that the "Paramedic" level is "so easy that even a caveman can do it" because we have treatment protocols, written by physicians, that you believe are absolute and leave nothing to the discretion of the paramedic, therefore we are just an "EMT (w/ more responsibility in respects to drugs)"?
    yes

    Is it your position that anybody who thinks that the job of a Paramedic is not the same job as that of an EMT, making the paramedic level out to be more than what it is and therefore we must be fooling ourselves and not know our role?
    yes
    "Courage is the resistance to fear, the mastery of fear, not the lack of fear." Mark Twain
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    yes

    Ok, now we're getting somewhere. I guess in that overly simplistic view, I suppose it could be viewed as "the same job" even though it clearly isn't!


    yes

    Then you have no clue.


    yes

    And even more proof that you have no clue.
    Exactly the answers I was expecting from you.

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    Actually, the NREMT and my state have changed the name from to EMT-Paramedic to Paramedic. Done to make it easier to identify EMT and Paramedics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by efd808 View Post
    Yes....oh wait, you weren't talking to me. My bad, I'm just gonna go pre mix some dopamine
    Don't forget the EPI drip, or Mag sulfate or Lidocaine or amiodarone.
    Bring enough hose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    Exactly the answers I was expecting from you.
    Exactly the answer I expected in return. You apparently have no clue of how this all works. Keep up the good work God..& don't forget I need the pick 3 lotto to be 4-13-20.

    I'm throwing the B.S. flag....You ya'll are doing some CRAZY stuff...lol Cause if you say you do more than what I expect from a medic & what's I've seen then something isn't coming together. I gots questions out the wazoo! like who is in charge of your EMS system? who does your QA/QI? these just for starters.
    Feel free to message me with your state, county, or local whom runs your Medic program. I gotta check this out.
    Last edited by ffscm72; 07-23-2011 at 11:57 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    You ya'll are doing some CRAZY stuff...lol Cause if you say you do more than what I expect from a medic & what's I've seen then something isn't coming together. I gots questions out the wazoo! like who is in charge of your EMS system? who does your QA/QI? these just for starters.
    Feel free to message me with your state, county, or local whom runs your Medic program. I gotta check this out.
    We have a EMS Operations Battalion Chief that oversees six Paramedic Captains who serve as field supervisors. We have two QA/QI specialists - one is an RN that focuses on the treatment delivered by ALS providers, and an EMT that focuses on BLS treatments. These are their full-time jobs.

    We work in an area with very aggressive and liberal protocols that not only gives EMT-I the right to perform every treatment as paramedics (chric's and RSI are the only exceptions), but also a set of protocols that allow the paramedics to diagnose and treat patients in the patient's best interest. It's not about just being the hands of the doctors mind, it's about the medic making true clinical decisions in the field.

    Your earlier post that "anyone" could be a paramedic is laughable.

    As long as I use your logic, every fire chief in the country is a still a pump operator, right? And you're just a fire truck driver, correct?
    Last edited by BoxAlarm187; 07-24-2011 at 01:38 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    Exactly the answer I expected in return. You apparently have no clue of how this all works. Keep up the good work God..& don't forget I need the pick 3 lotto to be 4-13-20.

    I'm throwing the B.S. flag....You ya'll are doing some CRAZY stuff...lol Cause if you say you do more than what I expect from a medic & what's I've seen then something isn't coming together. I gots questions out the wazoo! like who is in charge of your EMS system? who does your QA/QI? these just for starters.
    Feel free to message me with your state, county, or local whom runs your Medic program. I gotta check this out.
    Who is in charge of the EMS system? That would be the state EMS office where said person works. Each service be it private or county has it's own director.

    Ours is very aggressive the only thing we have to call for is if we want to give more than 10 mg of morphine in one push, Or if we want to give Bi-carb to a live pt.
    Bring enough hose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    Exactly the answer I expected in return.
    Nice to know I didn't disappoint you.

    You apparently have no clue of how this all works. Keep up the good work God..& don't forget I need the pick 3 lotto to be 4-13-20.
    Oh I have way more than just a clue about how this all works. Have you noticed that so far nobody on here is backing you and your bizarre view?

    I'm throwing the B.S. flag....You ya'll are doing some CRAZY stuff...lol Cause if you say you do more than what I expect from a medic & what's I've seen then something isn't coming together. I gots questions out the wazoo! like who is in charge of your EMS system? who does your QA/QI? these just for starters.
    Feel free to message me with your state, county, or local whom runs your Medic program. I gotta check this out.
    B.S. on what?

    I have no idea what you expect from a medic (nor do I really care), so I can't say if I'm doing "more" or not.

    A physician is ultimately "in charge" of the EMS system that I work in. Not exactly sure who all does the QA/QI for the EMS agency I work for, but the "committee" is comprised of physicians and paramedics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    I'm sorry i just can't agree w/ you boss. The job is the same no matter where you go. U can say that i just don't get it because i'm only a Basic. But I've been doing this to dang long & riding w/ the best Medics out there w/ the same point of view. If other medics in other states want to make it out more than what it is. So be it partner. You medics (not all of you) are just fooling yourself.
    LOL... "to dang long"? How long is it exactly? I'm going on 25 years, a few as a paid EMT-A (that predates B..btw), and it was always pretty clear to me that there was a difference. I was secure enough in my own abilities and brains to admit that.

    It's obvious you have a pretty big chip on your shoulder for medics.

    The only one fooling themselves is you. Next time you have a patient who needs an airway and medics are not available... let me know if you still think you have "the same job".
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    [QUOTE=FireMedic049;1284372]A physician is ultimately "in charge" of the EMS system that I work in. [quote]

    Thats my point! Ur job...although higher level of care, is the same as BLS! You treat patients under the supervision of a physician whether written or verbal just like BLS. You don't make your own decision because a physician has given a guideline & the skills that are to be learned to work with. BLS doesn't do anything out side their scope of practice. ALS doesn't do anything outside their practice. So what makes it so "OMG" about doing it? The job is the same because we are still under the supervision of a physician that tells us how we are going to do or job. (e.g. You want to push an epi-drip, then a certain criteria must be met. You can't just give that med for any symptom you see fit.). I don't see how anyone can be so cocky about a job when you really don't make a whole lot of decisions.

    Oh I have way more than just a clue about how this all works. Have you noticed that so far nobody on here is backing you and your bizarre view?
    Just because you all agree w/ each other doesn't make you right. & so far 4 out of 238,268 total members isn't impressive. Besides I really don't think that either [a.] i am failing to put my point across because of difference in EMS systems or [b.] those of you that agree with each other aren't pickin' up what i'm layin' down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    LOL... "to dang long"? How long is it exactly? I'm going on 25 years, a few as a paid EMT-A (that predates B..btw), and it was always pretty clear to me that there was a difference. I was secure enough in my own abilities and brains to admit that.

    It's obvious you have a pretty big chip on your shoulder for medics.

    The only one fooling themselves is you. Next time you have a patient who needs an airway and medics are not available... let me know if you still think you have "the same job".
    Been in service for 13 years. Which is more than long enough to see how this mess works.

    I don't have a chip (except for cocky lil' college grads, whom never touch a ambulance prior to college). yeah they tick me off... A LOT!

    airway management- secure it...what else is there besides the tool you use? Medics have better tools to do that with...i get that...but we are still doing the same job....trying to secure an airway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    We have a EMS Operations Battalion Chief that oversees six Paramedic Captains who serve as field supervisors. We have two QA/QI specialists - one is an RN that focuses on the treatment delivered by ALS providers, and an EMT that focuses on BLS treatments. These are their full-time jobs.
    And who oversees the EMS Ops Bt. Chief? don't tell me no one cause he ain't the top cheese i'm sure
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    And who oversees the EMS Ops Bt. Chief? don't tell me no one cause he ain't the top cheese i'm sure
    The Assistant Chief of Operations. EMS policies & procedures are coordinated through our medical director (an ER MD/former paramedic at the regional teaching hospital).
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    [QUOTE=ffscm72;1284377][QUOTE=FireMedic049;1284372]A physician is ultimately "in charge" of the EMS system that I work in.

    Thats my point! Ur job...although higher level of care, is the same as BLS! You treat patients under the supervision of a physician whether written or verbal just like BLS. You don't make your own decision because a physician has given a guideline & the skills that are to be learned to work with. BLS doesn't do anything out side their scope of practice. ALS doesn't do anything outside their practice. So what makes it so "OMG" about doing it? The job is the same because we are still under the supervision of a physician that tells us how we are going to do or job. (e.g. You want to push an epi-drip, then a certain criteria must be met. You can't just give that med for any symptom you see fit.). I don't see how anyone can be so cocky about a job when you really don't make a whole lot of decisions.


    Just because you all agree w/ each other doesn't make you right. & so far 4 out of 238,268 total members isn't impressive. Besides I really don't think that either [a.] i am failing to put my point across because of difference in EMS systems or [b.] those of you that agree with each other aren't pickin' up what i'm layin' down.
    I think I got your jist now.. It's late, we will hash this more tomorrow

    Stay safe
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    [QUOTE=L-Webb;1284385][QUOTE=ffscm72;1284377]
    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    A physician is ultimately "in charge" of the EMS system that I work in.

    I think I got your jist now.. It's late, we will hash this more tomorrow

    Stay safe
    thank god...lol have a good night...when I wake up from this shift i'll be back to see if you picked up what I laid down...lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    The Assistant Chief of Operations. EMS policies & procedures are coordinated through our medical director (an ER MD/former paramedic at the regional teaching hospital).
    :| <--- my surprise face...lol a medical director in charge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    :| <--- my surprise face...lol a medical director in charge.
    Well why stop there. Who's in charge of the medical director? The State Medical Director for every health care provider in that state. But why stop there. Who does he report to? The Governor? Ok. He must be in charge. No wait, he sends representitives to Congress, so Congress must be in charge. I mean all EMS is still a brain child of the National Transportation Safety Board, so Congress must be the ones in charge. But they report to the executive branch. So Obama must be in charge.

    Thats it. It's all Obama's fault.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    :| <--- my surprise face...lol a medical director in charge.
    :-| MY surprised face. You ignored my question to you....

    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187
    As long as I use your logic, every fire chief in the country is a still a pump operator, right? And you're just a fire truck driver, correct?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    Thats my point! Ur job...although higher level of care, is the same as BLS!
    It's a incorrect point. The mere fact that it's a higher level of care than what BLS can offer makes the job different! Well, that is unless we're discussing your overly simplistic view of EMS.

    You treat patients under the supervision of a physician whether written or verbal just like BLS. You don't make your own decision because a physician has given a guideline & the skills that are to be learned to work with.
    Yes, a physician oversees the overall process, however you are very much wrong that we aren't allowed to make our own decisions. The treatment protocols provide a guideline for us to refer to regarding treatment, however we still have to make the decision if following any specific protocol, in full or in part, is the right course of treatment.

    The process is really not as cut and dry as a patient complaining of pain in their chest, so they automatically get treated under the chest pain protocol. We have the discretion to decide if we fell the pain is/isn't cardiac in nature and treat/not treat accordingly and we are subsequently accountable for that decision.

    BLS doesn't do anything out side their scope of practice. ALS doesn't do anything outside their practice. So what makes it so "OMG" about doing it? The job is the same because we are still under the supervision of a physician that tells us how we are going to do or job. (e.g. You want to push an epi-drip, then a certain criteria must be met. You can't just give that med for any symptom you see fit.).
    True, we are limited to our scope of practice and typically don't have the ability to go beyond that. I think the only one attaching an "OMG" factor to anything is you.

    You are sadly mistaken if you think it's that cut and dry that a physician "tells us how we are going to do our job". The physician typically provides a guide to assist us in doing our job, but every decision made does not come from them.

    I don't see how anyone can be so cocky about a job when you really don't make a whole lot of decisions.
    Well, "cockiness" can be a subjective assessment and the fact that you think that we "don't make a whole lot of decisions" further exemplifies your ignorance of the Paramedic Level.

    Just because you all agree w/ each other doesn't make you right. & so far 4 out of 238,268 total members isn't impressive. Besides I really don't think that either [a.] i am failing to put my point across because of difference in EMS systems or [b.] those of you that agree with each other aren't pickin' up what i'm layin' down.
    Yes, the sample is small and actually a lot smaller than "4 out of 238,268" since you really can't count people that haven't even read the thread and it's debatable whether those that have read, but not commented should be counted since they offered no opinion. So that leaves us with 1 for your position (that's you) and 4 for the other side. That's an 80/20 split that's not in your favor.

    The fact that we are all in different EMS systems is not the reason we "aren't pickin' up what (you're) layin' down". The problem rest solely with you, your ignorance of the Paramedic level and your inability to clearly make your point to defend your position. I think we are understanding what you are actually saying quite well and have acknowledge so, however your points have been an overly simplistic assessment of EMS and not really reflective of the true reality of EMS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    airway management- secure it...what else is there besides the tool you use? Medics have better tools to do that with...i get that...but we are still doing the same job....trying to secure an airway.
    And exactly how do you secure that airway as a BLS provider?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    And exactly how do you secure that airway as a BLS provider?
    You can't, even a combi-tube or a LMA is considered an advanced airway.

    Some places allow basics to use these but it's still ALS.
    Bring enough hose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    And exactly how do you secure that airway as a BLS provider?
    Grab a King from the airway bag.
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