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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    It's a incorrect point. The mere fact that it's a higher level of care than what BLS can offer makes the job different! Well, that is unless we're discussing your overly simplistic view of EMS.

    Yes, a physician oversees the overall process, however you are very much wrong that we aren't allowed to make our own decisions. The treatment protocols provide a guideline for us to refer to regarding treatment, however we still have to make the decision if following any specific protocol, in full or in part, is the right course of treatment.

    The process is really not as cut and dry as a patient complaining of pain in their chest, so they automatically get treated under the chest pain protocol. We have the discretion to decide if we fell the pain is/isn't cardiac in nature and treat/not treat accordingly and we are subsequently accountable for that decision.

    True, we are limited to our scope of practice and typically don't have the ability to go beyond that. I think the only one attaching an "OMG" factor to anything is you.

    You are sadly mistaken if you think it's that cut and dry that a physician "tells us how we are going to do our job". The physician typically provides a guide to assist us in doing our job, but every decision made does not come from them.


    Well, "cockiness" can be a subjective assessment and the fact that you think that we "don't make a whole lot of decisions" further exemplifies your ignorance of the Paramedic Level.



    Yes, the sample is small and actually a lot smaller than "4 out of 238,268" since you really can't count people that haven't even read the thread and it's debatable whether those that have read, but not commented should be counted since they offered no opinion. So that leaves us with 1 for your position (that's you) and 4 for the other side. That's an 80/20 split that's not in your favor.

    The fact that we are all in different EMS systems is not the reason we "aren't pickin' up what (you're) layin' down". The problem rest solely with you, your ignorance of the Paramedic level and your inability to clearly make your point to defend your position. I think we are understanding what you are actually saying quite well and have acknowledge so, however your points have been an overly simplistic assessment of EMS and not really reflective of the true reality of EMS.
    You ignorance of the EMS system boggles my mind for someone w/ a paramedic level license. Your cockiness doesn't surprise me. all i'm going to do now is sit back & watch you fall on you *****, when you finally come to terms that you as a medic are limited.
    I guess denial isn't just a river in Egypt.
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    I take it oropharyngeal airways are just beneath you all. To good to use a simple tool?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    I take it oropharyngeal airways are just beneath you all. To good to use a simple tool?
    Why the hell would I want an OPA when I can have a secured airway with a King? And before you assume anything, I'm a practicing EMT, not a paramedic.

    Edit: I gotta ask what your real beef is with paramedics, since this has apparently been bothering you for over three years.
    Last edited by BoxAlarm187; 07-24-2011 at 02:35 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    You ignorance of the EMS system boggles my mind for someone w/ a paramedic level license. Your cockiness doesn't surprise me. all i'm going to do now is sit back & watch you fall on you *****, when you finally come to terms that you as a medic are limited.
    I guess denial isn't just a river in Egypt.
    You didn't respond to one point that he made, can you expand your thought on us being limited? I get what your saying, but who isn't limited?? If the ED doc has an active MI he refers the pt to a cardiac doc, if it's a trauma then trauma docs show up. I don't know of one job that has unlimited resources...well my buddies are farmers so they have it alright.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Why the hell would I want an OPA when I can have a secured airway with a King? And before you assume anything, I'm a practicing EMT, not a paramedic.
    Because sometimes that's all you got to work with.

    Edit: I gotta ask what your real beef is with paramedics, since this has apparently been bothering you for over three years.
    My beef isn't just about medics. I got a lot of friends that are medic & we work great together. I just get very tired of the basics & medic making themselves out to more than what they are. Be proud of what you do...not what others can do. Be the best at what you can do & what you are given.

    in that thread I wasn't the only person whom feels the same way i do. I totally forgot about that thread...lol thanks boss!
    Last edited by ffscm72; 07-24-2011 at 03:28 PM.
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    [QUOTE=ffscm72;1284456][QUOTE=BoxAlarm187;1284454]Why the hell would I want an OPA when I can have a secured airway with a King? And before you assume anything, I'm a practicing EMT, not a paramedic.

    Because sometimes that's all you got to work with.



    My beef isn't just about medics. I got a lot of friends that are medic & we work great together. I just get very tired of the basics & medic making themselves out to more than what they are. Be proud of what you do...not what others can do. Be the best at what you can do & what you are given.

    in that thread I wasn't the only person whom feels the same way i do. I totally forgot about that thread...lol thanks boss!
    I don't think anybody was making themselves out to be more than they are, we all have a job to do, and trust me I have been on the receiving end of some snot nose straight outta school medic try to berate my guys. Unfortunately for him he ended up looking like a fool in front of everyone, professional..no....fun...you bet. I have also had some basics that due to ignorant pride not call for help when the pt really needed ALS care. I think we all agree we are proud of what we do , and we use every tool we have to the best of our ability whether were on the fire ground or a medical call.

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    [QUOTE=efd808;1284461]
    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    I don't think anybody was making themselves out to be more than they are, we all have a job to do, and trust me I have been on the receiving end of some snot nose straight outta school medic try to berate my guys. Unfortunately for him he ended up looking like a fool in front of everyone, professional..no....fun...you bet. I have also had some basics that due to ignorant pride not call for help when the pt really needed ALS care. I think we all agree we are proud of what we do , and we use every tool we have to the best of our ability whether were on the fire ground or a medical call.
    That's all i was trying to say in a nut shell. Now the initial question remains. AA or BS really required for paramedics....I don't really believe so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    I take it oropharyngeal airways are just beneath you all. To good to use a simple tool?
    Doesn't do squat.

    FAIL
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Doesn't do squat.

    FAIL
    does enough. you got to turn it for it to work chief...lol j/k
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    I take it oropharyngeal airways are just beneath you all. To good to use a simple tool?
    The OPA is a good tool, But it doesn't secure anything. It just helps open the glottis so you can bag the pt better.

    Edit

    I know you know that, Just giving you down the road.
    Last edited by L-Webb; 07-24-2011 at 09:34 PM.
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  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    does enough. you got to turn it for it to work chief...lol j/k
    Seriously... I've been there, done that.

    Had a trauma patient who desperately needed a tube.... there was even a doc on scene.

    Oral Airway aint the same thing.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Grab a King from the airway bag.
    Sure, if that's an option. In PA, there is currently NO options to secure the airway at the EMT level. Maybe DE has that as an option for the EMT? Given the subsequent reference to using oral & nasal airways, I'm leaning towards it not being one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    You ignorance of the EMS system boggles my mind for someone w/ a paramedic level license.
    ROTFLMAO, if you think I'm ignorant of the EMS system, then by comparison, you must have been lobotomized somewhere along the way.

    Your cockiness doesn't surprise me. all i'm going to do now is sit back & watch you fall on you *****, when you finally come to terms that you as a medic are limited.
    I guess denial isn't just a river in Egypt.
    And your nonsense doesn't surprise me at all either. If you're going to do that, then I hope you have a comfortable chair because you're going to be waiting a long time to see me "fall on (my) *****" regarding this issue. By the way, I've already acknowledged that as a Paramedic, I am limited in what I can do. Others in this discussion have acknowledged the same, but for whatever reason, you don't seem to be able to comprehend that.

    BTW, this isn't "cockiness", the more correct term is "confidence". I am confident that I know exactly what my job (as a Paramedic) is. I am confident that what my job as a Paramedic is, IS NOT the same job as the EMTs I work with. I am confident that you truly know very little about what you've been trying to talk about. I am confident that you will continue to try and defend your indefensible positions and continue to fail at it. I am confident that I'm growing bored debating this matter with you. At this point, I almost feel bad for you...............almost!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    Sure, if that's an option. In PA, there is currently NO options to secure the airway at the EMT level. Maybe DE has that as an option for the EMT? Given the subsequent reference to using oral & nasal airways, I'm leaning towards it not being one.
    Perhaps not, we're lucky that both agencies I work/volunteer for do allow this as a BLS skill.

    Part of my fuel was this...
    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72
    I take it oropharyngeal airways are just beneath you all. To good to use a simple tool?
    ...and the implication that we're "too good" to use an OPA, even if there's a more viable option out there...which in my case, it is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    I take it oropharyngeal airways are just beneath you all. To good to use a simple tool?
    Well, in a sense, yes, they are beneath me. If the goal is to secure the airway, then why would I choose an oral airway when I have ETT & King-LT airways at my disposal? Options that would actually secure the patient's airway!


    P.S. The part in blue was a bit of cockiness, but only so I could have a little more fun mocking you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by efd808 View Post
    I don't think anybody was making themselves out to be more than they are, we all have a job to do, and trust me I have been on the receiving end of some snot nose straight outta school medic try to berate my guys. Unfortunately for him he ended up looking like a fool in front of everyone, professional..no....fun...you bet. I have also had some basics that due to ignorant pride not call for help when the pt really needed ALS care. I think we all agree we are proud of what we do , and we use every tool we have to the best of our ability whether were on the fire ground or a medical call.
    That's all i was trying to say in a nut shell.
    If that's all you were trying to say, then you did a **** poor job of doing so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Part of my fuel was this...

    ...and the implication that we're "too good" to use an OPA, even if there's a more viable option out there...which in my case, it is.
    Then hopefully post #165 brought a smile to your face.

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    I don't know what to tell you firemedic.As far as me sittin' for a while...I got time. I'm a patient man. I never said the OPA or NPA were great option, just option none the less.
    Maybe some day we can work together. Until then stay safe & save some lives with all them limited tools at your disposal. & I'll do the same with my even more limited tools...lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    I never said the OPA or NPA were great option, just option none the less.
    Once again you appear to be missing the point. The question was about how YOU would secure an airway at the BLS level. The issue wasn't about you saying or implying that the OPA and NPA were great options. The issue is that neither of them will actually secure the airway and you either overlooked that, didn't know that or intentionally ignored that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    Once again you appear to be missing the point. The question was about how YOU would secure an airway at the BLS level. The issue wasn't about you saying or implying that the OPA and NPA were great options. The issue is that neither of them will actually secure the airway and you either overlooked that, didn't know that or intentionally ignored that.
    It's a good thing you decided to be a medic & not a police officer. You are just missing the point entirely. Lord, never give you a gun...lol You'd shoot the public & not the person breaking the crime...lol

    No OPA or NPA would not be my first choice. It is my only choice as BLS. That's why I call you. But none the less a they are choices. not the best I agree.

    I'll take a quote from another thread that I had this discussion in:

    DrParasite: "BLS treats the signs and symtoms. ALS can do more to treat the signs and symptoms.MDs treat the causes of the signs and symptoms"

    You make yourself out more than you are because you have more tools. I get that but
    Last edited by ffscm72; 07-25-2011 at 11:05 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    It's a good thing you decided to be a medic & not a police officer. You are just missing the point entirely. Lord, never give you a gun...lol You'd shoot the public & not the person breaking the crime...lol
    You're only partially correct. I'd definitely be inclined to shoot the criminal. I'd probably be the Taser company's best customer.

    No OPA or NPA would not be my first choice. It is my only choice as BLS. That's why I call you. But none the less a they are choices. not the best I agree.
    I'm not missing the point at all. You stated the following:
    Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    airway management- secure it...what else is there besides the tool you use? Medics have better tools to do that with...i get that...but we are still doing the same job....trying to secure an airway.
    In response, I asked how YOU would secure that airway as an EMT since we were "doing the same job....trying to secure an airway" and I am unfamiliar with what treatment options are available to the EMT in Delaware.

    As pointed out more than once, the OPA and NPA do not actually secure a patients airway.

    So, given the fact that the OPA and NPA are your only treatment choice at the BLS level, then the correct response to my question would have been "call for a paramedic".

    I'll take a quote from another thread that I had this discussion in:

    DrParasite: "BLS treats the signs and symtoms. ALS can do more to treat the signs and symptoms.MDs treat the causes of the signs and symptoms"

    You make yourself out more than you are because you have more tools. I get that but
    But what?

    I have more training, skills and tools to treat patients than the EMT, therefore my job is not the same as an EMT's. I know that I'm not a doctor, nor pretend to be one. How exactly am I making myself out to be more than I am (as a Paramedic)?

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    OMG
    Does this guy...................................

    Beat the poor ol dead horse much?
    Bring enough hose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    You're only partially correct. I'd definitely be inclined to shoot the criminal. I'd probably be the Taser company's best customer.
    roflmao

    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    I'm not missing the point at all. You stated the following:
    In response, I asked how YOU would secure that airway as an EMT since we were "doing the same job....trying to secure an airway" and I am unfamiliar with what treatment options are available to the EMT in Delaware.
    As pointed out more than once, the OPA and NPA do not actually secure a patients airway.
    I ask you before i answer you, what are all the methods of securing an airway?

    So, given the fact that the OPA and NPA are your only treatment choice at the BLS level, then the correct response to my question would have been "call for a paramedic".
    Of course I would request for ALS. as it would be the best chance of survival for the patient. i don't deny this fact. But are still doing the same thing. Same job, different skill level & tools.

    I have more training, skills and tools to treat patients than the EMT, therefore my job is not the same as an EMT's. I know that I'm not a doctor, nor pretend to be one. How exactly am I making myself out to be more than I am (as a Paramedic)?
    I believe we are arguing same point but w/ different terminology in some cases.
    You care using the Acronym for EMT in the meaning the level of skill not Emergency Medical Technician?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    I ask you before i answer you, what are all the methods of securing an airway?
    Not sure why that would be necessary, but........

    Endotracheal tube, King-LT, Combi-tube and a needle cricothyrotomy (or however that's spelled) are the options that I have/had at my disposal. I believe some places can do surgical cricothyrotomies. Beyond that, there's a tracheotostomy, but that's typically an in hospital procedure.



    Of course I would request for ALS. as it would be the best chance of survival for the patient. i don't deny this fact. But are still doing the same thing. Same job, different skill level & tools.
    Same job, but only in the overly simplistic fashion that you have acknowledged as being your meaning.


    I believe we are arguing same point but w/ different terminology in some cases.
    You care using the Acronym for EMT in the meaning the level of skill not Emergency Medical Technician?
    I am using "EMT" in reference to the BLS level since anywhere that I've been to, "EMT" refers to a BLS provider. Any reference to a provider with an ALS scope of practice is referred to with a different identifier, like EMT-I, CC, IV, AI, P or by paramedic or Health Professional (a RN authorized to do Paramedic skills).

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    Not sure why that would be necessary, but........

    Endotracheal tube, King-LT, Combi-tube and a needle cricothyrotomy (or however that's spelled) are the options that I have/had at my disposal. I believe some places can do surgical cricothyrotomies. Beyond that, there's a tracheotostomy, but that's typically an in hospital procedure.
    ur missing a couple.

    Same job, but only in the overly simplistic fashion that you have acknowledged as being your meaning.
    why make it deeper than it is? it just makes the job harder.

    I am using "EMT" in reference to the BLS level since anywhere that I've been to, "EMT" refers to a BLS provider. Any reference to a provider with an ALS scope of practice is referred to with a different identifier, like EMT-I, CC, IV, AI, P or by paramedic or Health Professional (a RN authorized to do Paramedic skills).
    I'm using the term EMT as the acronym. it precedes the level. I can see why we go back and forth on it...lol no biggy
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