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  1. #121
    MembersZone Subscriber ffscm72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    I'm not ****ed, not at all...

    If your point is that EMTP has the actual letters E.M.T. in the name, then I understand. Otherwise, I have no fricking clue what your point is.

    As for "limited medical knowledge".... you could say that about a neurosurgeon too... their knowledge is limited, in large part, to their specialty. Again, not sure what your point is.
    EMT-Emergency Medical Technician w/ Basic, Intermediate, & Paramedic levels. Levels are different but job is the same. Assess treat transport.

    I don't see why you need a A.A. or B.S degree for the levels of medicine that EMT (Basic, Intermediate, or Paramedic) provide.
    "Courage is the resistance to fear, the mastery of fear, not the lack of fear." Mark Twain
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." Uknown


  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Just because they dress the same and respond to the same calls does not mean that "the job is the same".

    It is not.
    The best I can determine what his "current" point to be (because there seems to be more than one) is that we all wear the same uniform, ride in the same type of vehicle, perform various EMS skills on the patient and then give them a ride to the hospital and hand off to RNs and/or DRs. Therefore, "the job is the same" - a point I've already conceded at least twice I believe.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    EMT-Emergency Medical Technician w/ Basic, Intermediate, & Paramedic levels. Levels are different but job is the same. Assess treat transport.

    I don't see why you need a A.A. or B.S degree for the levels of medicine that EMT (Basic, Intermediate, or Paramedic) provide.
    If this is your point, that you don't see why a degree is necessary for any level of EMT, then your point has already been addressed by me and possibly some others, but I'll repeat it for you.

    The degree IS NOT necessary in order to be a good provider at any of those levels. What the point of the degree for the Paramedic level argument is, is that having the provider be a college level degree Paramedic could put that level more on par with RN, BSN, PA, etc. within the Healthcare community and thus improve wages and other opportunities for Paramedics rather than continue being paid a fraction of what an RN typically makes despite being able to do some very important, life saving interventions that RNs are not authorized to do.

  4. #124
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    EMT-Emergency Medical Technician w/ Basic, Intermediate, & Paramedic levels. Levels are different but job is the same. Assess treat transport.

    I don't see why you need a A.A. or B.S degree for the levels of medicine that EMT (Basic, Intermediate, or Paramedic) provide.
    The job is not the same. Pick ANY agency's job descriptions and you will see differences. There is a clearly different level of expectation in regards to how they "assess and treat". The transport part being the only thing that is probably the same.

    The goal of requiring a college degree is to set a base threshold of education with the idea that you are bringing people into the paramedic program who have a higher chance of not only passing but excelling.

    That's not a guarantee... granted. However, people who have graduated and received a degree (Associates or otherwise) have demonstrated the ability to study and achieve at a higher level by using their own personal initiative.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    SMH again...lol I know we are not trained at the same level. But the job is the same...different level...same job...different level..same job. Maybe if I say it over & over again ya'll will get what I'm trying to say...lol
    I have no idea what SMH is. NO it is not the same job, you as a BASIC can't give the same meds I do, You may have a basic concept of the monitor but you don't see the same thing I do, as a basic you will not drop a #8 ett to 25mm at the gumline, co2 readings will not be your problem, broselow tape is something you hand me, not read. If i keep saying it over and over maybe you will get it.......As Paramedics we have alot more field training, and even more responsibility. Not the same job...different level...not the same job

  6. #126
    MembersZone Subscriber ffscm72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    The job is not the same. Pick ANY agency's job descriptions and you will see differences. There is a clearly different level of expectation in regards to how they "assess and treat". The transport part being the only thing that is probably the same.

    The goal of requiring a college degree is to set a base threshold of education with the idea that you are bringing people into the paramedic program who have a higher chance of not only passing but excelling.

    That's not a guarantee... granted. However, people who have graduated and received a degree (Associates or otherwise) have demonstrated the ability to study and achieve at a higher level by using their own personal initiative.
    I'm sorry i just can't agree w/ you boss. The job is the same no matter where you go. U can say that i just don't get it because i'm only a Basic. But I've been doing this to dang long & riding w/ the best Medics out there w/ the same point of view. If other medics in other states want to make it out more than what it is. So be it partner. You medics (not all of you) are just fooling yourself.
    "Courage is the resistance to fear, the mastery of fear, not the lack of fear." Mark Twain
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." Uknown

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    I'm sorry i just can't agree w/ you boss. The job is the same no matter where you go. U can say that i just don't get it because i'm only a Basic. But I've been doing this to dang long & riding w/ the best Medics out there w/ the same point of view. If other medics in other states want to make it out more than what it is. So be it partner. You medics (not all of you) are just fooling yourself.
    So we can be absolutely clear about this..........

    Is your position that "the job is the same no matter where you go" based on the extremely broad view that we all assess our patient, provide treatment (no matter how little or how much treatment is required) and then transport to a hospital where we turn over care to RNs and DRs therefore, "the job is the same"?

    Is it your position that the "Paramedic" level is "so easy that even a caveman can do it" because we have treatment protocols, written by physicians, that you believe are absolute and leave nothing to the discretion of the paramedic, therefore we are just an "EMT (w/ more responsibility in respects to drugs)"?

    Is it your position that anybody who thinks that the job of a Paramedic is not the same job as that of an EMT, making the paramedic level out to be more than what it is and therefore we must be fooling ourselves and not know our role?

    Simple yes or no answer are sufficient.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    So we can be absolutely clear about this..........

    Is your position that "the job is the same no matter where you go" based on the extremely broad view that we all assess our patient, provide treatment (no matter how little or how much treatment is required) and then transport to a hospital where we turn over care to RNs and DRs therefore, "the job is the same"?

    Is it your position that the "Paramedic" level is "so easy that even a caveman can do it" because we have treatment protocols, written by physicians, that you believe are absolute and leave nothing to the discretion of the paramedic, therefore we are just an "EMT (w/ more responsibility in respects to drugs)"?

    Is it your position that anybody who thinks that the job of a Paramedic is not the same job as that of an EMT, making the paramedic level out to be more than what it is and therefore we must be fooling ourselves and not know our role?

    Simple yes or no answer are sufficient.
    Yes....oh wait, you weren't talking to me. My bad, I'm just gonna go pre mix some dopamine

  9. #129
    MembersZone Subscriber ffscm72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    So we can be absolutely clear about this..........

    Is your position that "the job is the same no matter where you go" based on the extremely broad view that we all assess our patient, provide treatment (no matter how little or how much treatment is required) and then transport to a hospital where we turn over care to RNs and DRs therefore, "the job is the same"?
    yes

    Is it your position that the "Paramedic" level is "so easy that even a caveman can do it" because we have treatment protocols, written by physicians, that you believe are absolute and leave nothing to the discretion of the paramedic, therefore we are just an "EMT (w/ more responsibility in respects to drugs)"?
    yes

    Is it your position that anybody who thinks that the job of a Paramedic is not the same job as that of an EMT, making the paramedic level out to be more than what it is and therefore we must be fooling ourselves and not know our role?
    yes
    "Courage is the resistance to fear, the mastery of fear, not the lack of fear." Mark Twain
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." Uknown

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    yes

    Ok, now we're getting somewhere. I guess in that overly simplistic view, I suppose it could be viewed as "the same job" even though it clearly isn't!


    yes

    Then you have no clue.


    yes

    And even more proof that you have no clue.
    Exactly the answers I was expecting from you.

  11. #131
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    Actually, the NREMT and my state have changed the name from to EMT-Paramedic to Paramedic. Done to make it easier to identify EMT and Paramedics.

  12. #132
    Forum Member L-Webb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by efd808 View Post
    Yes....oh wait, you weren't talking to me. My bad, I'm just gonna go pre mix some dopamine
    Don't forget the EPI drip, or Mag sulfate or Lidocaine or amiodarone.
    Bring enough hose.

  13. #133
    MembersZone Subscriber ffscm72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    Exactly the answers I was expecting from you.
    Exactly the answer I expected in return. You apparently have no clue of how this all works. Keep up the good work God..& don't forget I need the pick 3 lotto to be 4-13-20.

    I'm throwing the B.S. flag....You ya'll are doing some CRAZY stuff...lol Cause if you say you do more than what I expect from a medic & what's I've seen then something isn't coming together. I gots questions out the wazoo! like who is in charge of your EMS system? who does your QA/QI? these just for starters.
    Feel free to message me with your state, county, or local whom runs your Medic program. I gotta check this out.
    Last edited by ffscm72; 07-23-2011 at 10:57 PM.
    "Courage is the resistance to fear, the mastery of fear, not the lack of fear." Mark Twain
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." Uknown

  14. #134
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    You ya'll are doing some CRAZY stuff...lol Cause if you say you do more than what I expect from a medic & what's I've seen then something isn't coming together. I gots questions out the wazoo! like who is in charge of your EMS system? who does your QA/QI? these just for starters.
    Feel free to message me with your state, county, or local whom runs your Medic program. I gotta check this out.
    We have a EMS Operations Battalion Chief that oversees six Paramedic Captains who serve as field supervisors. We have two QA/QI specialists - one is an RN that focuses on the treatment delivered by ALS providers, and an EMT that focuses on BLS treatments. These are their full-time jobs.

    We work in an area with very aggressive and liberal protocols that not only gives EMT-I the right to perform every treatment as paramedics (chric's and RSI are the only exceptions), but also a set of protocols that allow the paramedics to diagnose and treat patients in the patient's best interest. It's not about just being the hands of the doctors mind, it's about the medic making true clinical decisions in the field.

    Your earlier post that "anyone" could be a paramedic is laughable.

    As long as I use your logic, every fire chief in the country is a still a pump operator, right? And you're just a fire truck driver, correct?
    Last edited by BoxAlarm187; 07-24-2011 at 12:38 AM.
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  15. #135
    Forum Member L-Webb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    Exactly the answer I expected in return. You apparently have no clue of how this all works. Keep up the good work God..& don't forget I need the pick 3 lotto to be 4-13-20.

    I'm throwing the B.S. flag....You ya'll are doing some CRAZY stuff...lol Cause if you say you do more than what I expect from a medic & what's I've seen then something isn't coming together. I gots questions out the wazoo! like who is in charge of your EMS system? who does your QA/QI? these just for starters.
    Feel free to message me with your state, county, or local whom runs your Medic program. I gotta check this out.
    Who is in charge of the EMS system? That would be the state EMS office where said person works. Each service be it private or county has it's own director.

    Ours is very aggressive the only thing we have to call for is if we want to give more than 10 mg of morphine in one push, Or if we want to give Bi-carb to a live pt.
    Bring enough hose.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    Exactly the answer I expected in return.
    Nice to know I didn't disappoint you.

    You apparently have no clue of how this all works. Keep up the good work God..& don't forget I need the pick 3 lotto to be 4-13-20.
    Oh I have way more than just a clue about how this all works. Have you noticed that so far nobody on here is backing you and your bizarre view?

    I'm throwing the B.S. flag....You ya'll are doing some CRAZY stuff...lol Cause if you say you do more than what I expect from a medic & what's I've seen then something isn't coming together. I gots questions out the wazoo! like who is in charge of your EMS system? who does your QA/QI? these just for starters.
    Feel free to message me with your state, county, or local whom runs your Medic program. I gotta check this out.
    B.S. on what?

    I have no idea what you expect from a medic (nor do I really care), so I can't say if I'm doing "more" or not.

    A physician is ultimately "in charge" of the EMS system that I work in. Not exactly sure who all does the QA/QI for the EMS agency I work for, but the "committee" is comprised of physicians and paramedics.

  17. #137
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    I'm sorry i just can't agree w/ you boss. The job is the same no matter where you go. U can say that i just don't get it because i'm only a Basic. But I've been doing this to dang long & riding w/ the best Medics out there w/ the same point of view. If other medics in other states want to make it out more than what it is. So be it partner. You medics (not all of you) are just fooling yourself.
    LOL... "to dang long"? How long is it exactly? I'm going on 25 years, a few as a paid EMT-A (that predates B..btw), and it was always pretty clear to me that there was a difference. I was secure enough in my own abilities and brains to admit that.

    It's obvious you have a pretty big chip on your shoulder for medics.

    The only one fooling themselves is you. Next time you have a patient who needs an airway and medics are not available... let me know if you still think you have "the same job".
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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  18. #138
    MembersZone Subscriber ffscm72's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=FireMedic049;1284372]A physician is ultimately "in charge" of the EMS system that I work in. [quote]

    Thats my point! Ur job...although higher level of care, is the same as BLS! You treat patients under the supervision of a physician whether written or verbal just like BLS. You don't make your own decision because a physician has given a guideline & the skills that are to be learned to work with. BLS doesn't do anything out side their scope of practice. ALS doesn't do anything outside their practice. So what makes it so "OMG" about doing it? The job is the same because we are still under the supervision of a physician that tells us how we are going to do or job. (e.g. You want to push an epi-drip, then a certain criteria must be met. You can't just give that med for any symptom you see fit.). I don't see how anyone can be so cocky about a job when you really don't make a whole lot of decisions.

    Oh I have way more than just a clue about how this all works. Have you noticed that so far nobody on here is backing you and your bizarre view?
    Just because you all agree w/ each other doesn't make you right. & so far 4 out of 238,268 total members isn't impressive. Besides I really don't think that either [a.] i am failing to put my point across because of difference in EMS systems or [b.] those of you that agree with each other aren't pickin' up what i'm layin' down.
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  19. #139
    MembersZone Subscriber ffscm72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    LOL... "to dang long"? How long is it exactly? I'm going on 25 years, a few as a paid EMT-A (that predates B..btw), and it was always pretty clear to me that there was a difference. I was secure enough in my own abilities and brains to admit that.

    It's obvious you have a pretty big chip on your shoulder for medics.

    The only one fooling themselves is you. Next time you have a patient who needs an airway and medics are not available... let me know if you still think you have "the same job".
    Been in service for 13 years. Which is more than long enough to see how this mess works.

    I don't have a chip (except for cocky lil' college grads, whom never touch a ambulance prior to college). yeah they tick me off... A LOT!

    airway management- secure it...what else is there besides the tool you use? Medics have better tools to do that with...i get that...but we are still doing the same job....trying to secure an airway.
    "Courage is the resistance to fear, the mastery of fear, not the lack of fear." Mark Twain
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." Uknown

  20. #140
    MembersZone Subscriber ffscm72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    We have a EMS Operations Battalion Chief that oversees six Paramedic Captains who serve as field supervisors. We have two QA/QI specialists - one is an RN that focuses on the treatment delivered by ALS providers, and an EMT that focuses on BLS treatments. These are their full-time jobs.
    And who oversees the EMS Ops Bt. Chief? don't tell me no one cause he ain't the top cheese i'm sure
    "Courage is the resistance to fear, the mastery of fear, not the lack of fear." Mark Twain
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." Uknown

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