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  1. #141
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    And who oversees the EMS Ops Bt. Chief? don't tell me no one cause he ain't the top cheese i'm sure
    The Assistant Chief of Operations. EMS policies & procedures are coordinated through our medical director (an ER MD/former paramedic at the regional teaching hospital).
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  2. #142
    Forum Member L-Webb's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=ffscm72;1284377][QUOTE=FireMedic049;1284372]A physician is ultimately "in charge" of the EMS system that I work in.

    Thats my point! Ur job...although higher level of care, is the same as BLS! You treat patients under the supervision of a physician whether written or verbal just like BLS. You don't make your own decision because a physician has given a guideline & the skills that are to be learned to work with. BLS doesn't do anything out side their scope of practice. ALS doesn't do anything outside their practice. So what makes it so "OMG" about doing it? The job is the same because we are still under the supervision of a physician that tells us how we are going to do or job. (e.g. You want to push an epi-drip, then a certain criteria must be met. You can't just give that med for any symptom you see fit.). I don't see how anyone can be so cocky about a job when you really don't make a whole lot of decisions.


    Just because you all agree w/ each other doesn't make you right. & so far 4 out of 238,268 total members isn't impressive. Besides I really don't think that either [a.] i am failing to put my point across because of difference in EMS systems or [b.] those of you that agree with each other aren't pickin' up what i'm layin' down.
    I think I got your jist now.. It's late, we will hash this more tomorrow

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  3. #143
    MembersZone Subscriber ffscm72's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=L-Webb;1284385][QUOTE=ffscm72;1284377]
    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    A physician is ultimately "in charge" of the EMS system that I work in.

    I think I got your jist now.. It's late, we will hash this more tomorrow

    Stay safe
    thank god...lol have a good night...when I wake up from this shift i'll be back to see if you picked up what I laid down...lol
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  4. #144
    MembersZone Subscriber ffscm72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    The Assistant Chief of Operations. EMS policies & procedures are coordinated through our medical director (an ER MD/former paramedic at the regional teaching hospital).
    :| <--- my surprise face...lol a medical director in charge.
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  5. #145
    MembersZone Subscriber JohnVBFD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    :| <--- my surprise face...lol a medical director in charge.
    Well why stop there. Who's in charge of the medical director? The State Medical Director for every health care provider in that state. But why stop there. Who does he report to? The Governor? Ok. He must be in charge. No wait, he sends representitives to Congress, so Congress must be in charge. I mean all EMS is still a brain child of the National Transportation Safety Board, so Congress must be the ones in charge. But they report to the executive branch. So Obama must be in charge.

    Thats it. It's all Obama's fault.
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  6. #146
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    :| <--- my surprise face...lol a medical director in charge.
    :-| MY surprised face. You ignored my question to you....

    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187
    As long as I use your logic, every fire chief in the country is a still a pump operator, right? And you're just a fire truck driver, correct?
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  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    Thats my point! Ur job...although higher level of care, is the same as BLS!
    It's a incorrect point. The mere fact that it's a higher level of care than what BLS can offer makes the job different! Well, that is unless we're discussing your overly simplistic view of EMS.

    You treat patients under the supervision of a physician whether written or verbal just like BLS. You don't make your own decision because a physician has given a guideline & the skills that are to be learned to work with.
    Yes, a physician oversees the overall process, however you are very much wrong that we aren't allowed to make our own decisions. The treatment protocols provide a guideline for us to refer to regarding treatment, however we still have to make the decision if following any specific protocol, in full or in part, is the right course of treatment.

    The process is really not as cut and dry as a patient complaining of pain in their chest, so they automatically get treated under the chest pain protocol. We have the discretion to decide if we fell the pain is/isn't cardiac in nature and treat/not treat accordingly and we are subsequently accountable for that decision.

    BLS doesn't do anything out side their scope of practice. ALS doesn't do anything outside their practice. So what makes it so "OMG" about doing it? The job is the same because we are still under the supervision of a physician that tells us how we are going to do or job. (e.g. You want to push an epi-drip, then a certain criteria must be met. You can't just give that med for any symptom you see fit.).
    True, we are limited to our scope of practice and typically don't have the ability to go beyond that. I think the only one attaching an "OMG" factor to anything is you.

    You are sadly mistaken if you think it's that cut and dry that a physician "tells us how we are going to do our job". The physician typically provides a guide to assist us in doing our job, but every decision made does not come from them.

    I don't see how anyone can be so cocky about a job when you really don't make a whole lot of decisions.
    Well, "cockiness" can be a subjective assessment and the fact that you think that we "don't make a whole lot of decisions" further exemplifies your ignorance of the Paramedic Level.

    Just because you all agree w/ each other doesn't make you right. & so far 4 out of 238,268 total members isn't impressive. Besides I really don't think that either [a.] i am failing to put my point across because of difference in EMS systems or [b.] those of you that agree with each other aren't pickin' up what i'm layin' down.
    Yes, the sample is small and actually a lot smaller than "4 out of 238,268" since you really can't count people that haven't even read the thread and it's debatable whether those that have read, but not commented should be counted since they offered no opinion. So that leaves us with 1 for your position (that's you) and 4 for the other side. That's an 80/20 split that's not in your favor.

    The fact that we are all in different EMS systems is not the reason we "aren't pickin' up what (you're) layin' down". The problem rest solely with you, your ignorance of the Paramedic level and your inability to clearly make your point to defend your position. I think we are understanding what you are actually saying quite well and have acknowledge so, however your points have been an overly simplistic assessment of EMS and not really reflective of the true reality of EMS.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    airway management- secure it...what else is there besides the tool you use? Medics have better tools to do that with...i get that...but we are still doing the same job....trying to secure an airway.
    And exactly how do you secure that airway as a BLS provider?

  9. #149
    Forum Member L-Webb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    And exactly how do you secure that airway as a BLS provider?
    You can't, even a combi-tube or a LMA is considered an advanced airway.

    Some places allow basics to use these but it's still ALS.
    Bring enough hose.

  10. #150
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    And exactly how do you secure that airway as a BLS provider?
    Grab a King from the airway bag.
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  11. #151
    MembersZone Subscriber ffscm72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    It's a incorrect point. The mere fact that it's a higher level of care than what BLS can offer makes the job different! Well, that is unless we're discussing your overly simplistic view of EMS.

    Yes, a physician oversees the overall process, however you are very much wrong that we aren't allowed to make our own decisions. The treatment protocols provide a guideline for us to refer to regarding treatment, however we still have to make the decision if following any specific protocol, in full or in part, is the right course of treatment.

    The process is really not as cut and dry as a patient complaining of pain in their chest, so they automatically get treated under the chest pain protocol. We have the discretion to decide if we fell the pain is/isn't cardiac in nature and treat/not treat accordingly and we are subsequently accountable for that decision.

    True, we are limited to our scope of practice and typically don't have the ability to go beyond that. I think the only one attaching an "OMG" factor to anything is you.

    You are sadly mistaken if you think it's that cut and dry that a physician "tells us how we are going to do our job". The physician typically provides a guide to assist us in doing our job, but every decision made does not come from them.


    Well, "cockiness" can be a subjective assessment and the fact that you think that we "don't make a whole lot of decisions" further exemplifies your ignorance of the Paramedic Level.



    Yes, the sample is small and actually a lot smaller than "4 out of 238,268" since you really can't count people that haven't even read the thread and it's debatable whether those that have read, but not commented should be counted since they offered no opinion. So that leaves us with 1 for your position (that's you) and 4 for the other side. That's an 80/20 split that's not in your favor.

    The fact that we are all in different EMS systems is not the reason we "aren't pickin' up what (you're) layin' down". The problem rest solely with you, your ignorance of the Paramedic level and your inability to clearly make your point to defend your position. I think we are understanding what you are actually saying quite well and have acknowledge so, however your points have been an overly simplistic assessment of EMS and not really reflective of the true reality of EMS.
    You ignorance of the EMS system boggles my mind for someone w/ a paramedic level license. Your cockiness doesn't surprise me. all i'm going to do now is sit back & watch you fall on you *****, when you finally come to terms that you as a medic are limited.
    I guess denial isn't just a river in Egypt.
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  12. #152
    MembersZone Subscriber ffscm72's Avatar
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    I take it oropharyngeal airways are just beneath you all. To good to use a simple tool?
    "Courage is the resistance to fear, the mastery of fear, not the lack of fear." Mark Twain
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  13. #153
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    I take it oropharyngeal airways are just beneath you all. To good to use a simple tool?
    Why the hell would I want an OPA when I can have a secured airway with a King? And before you assume anything, I'm a practicing EMT, not a paramedic.

    Edit: I gotta ask what your real beef is with paramedics, since this has apparently been bothering you for over three years.
    Last edited by BoxAlarm187; 07-24-2011 at 02:35 PM.
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  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    You ignorance of the EMS system boggles my mind for someone w/ a paramedic level license. Your cockiness doesn't surprise me. all i'm going to do now is sit back & watch you fall on you *****, when you finally come to terms that you as a medic are limited.
    I guess denial isn't just a river in Egypt.
    You didn't respond to one point that he made, can you expand your thought on us being limited? I get what your saying, but who isn't limited?? If the ED doc has an active MI he refers the pt to a cardiac doc, if it's a trauma then trauma docs show up. I don't know of one job that has unlimited resources...well my buddies are farmers so they have it alright.

  15. #155
    MembersZone Subscriber ffscm72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Why the hell would I want an OPA when I can have a secured airway with a King? And before you assume anything, I'm a practicing EMT, not a paramedic.
    Because sometimes that's all you got to work with.

    Edit: I gotta ask what your real beef is with paramedics, since this has apparently been bothering you for over three years.
    My beef isn't just about medics. I got a lot of friends that are medic & we work great together. I just get very tired of the basics & medic making themselves out to more than what they are. Be proud of what you do...not what others can do. Be the best at what you can do & what you are given.

    in that thread I wasn't the only person whom feels the same way i do. I totally forgot about that thread...lol thanks boss!
    Last edited by ffscm72; 07-24-2011 at 03:28 PM.
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  16. #156
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    [QUOTE=ffscm72;1284456][QUOTE=BoxAlarm187;1284454]Why the hell would I want an OPA when I can have a secured airway with a King? And before you assume anything, I'm a practicing EMT, not a paramedic.

    Because sometimes that's all you got to work with.



    My beef isn't just about medics. I got a lot of friends that are medic & we work great together. I just get very tired of the basics & medic making themselves out to more than what they are. Be proud of what you do...not what others can do. Be the best at what you can do & what you are given.

    in that thread I wasn't the only person whom feels the same way i do. I totally forgot about that thread...lol thanks boss!
    I don't think anybody was making themselves out to be more than they are, we all have a job to do, and trust me I have been on the receiving end of some snot nose straight outta school medic try to berate my guys. Unfortunately for him he ended up looking like a fool in front of everyone, professional..no....fun...you bet. I have also had some basics that due to ignorant pride not call for help when the pt really needed ALS care. I think we all agree we are proud of what we do , and we use every tool we have to the best of our ability whether were on the fire ground or a medical call.

  17. #157
    MembersZone Subscriber ffscm72's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=efd808;1284461]
    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    I don't think anybody was making themselves out to be more than they are, we all have a job to do, and trust me I have been on the receiving end of some snot nose straight outta school medic try to berate my guys. Unfortunately for him he ended up looking like a fool in front of everyone, professional..no....fun...you bet. I have also had some basics that due to ignorant pride not call for help when the pt really needed ALS care. I think we all agree we are proud of what we do , and we use every tool we have to the best of our ability whether were on the fire ground or a medical call.
    That's all i was trying to say in a nut shell. Now the initial question remains. AA or BS really required for paramedics....I don't really believe so.
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  18. #158
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    I take it oropharyngeal airways are just beneath you all. To good to use a simple tool?
    Doesn't do squat.

    FAIL
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  19. #159
    MembersZone Subscriber ffscm72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Doesn't do squat.

    FAIL
    does enough. you got to turn it for it to work chief...lol j/k
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  20. #160
    Forum Member L-Webb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffscm72 View Post
    I take it oropharyngeal airways are just beneath you all. To good to use a simple tool?
    The OPA is a good tool, But it doesn't secure anything. It just helps open the glottis so you can bag the pt better.

    Edit

    I know you know that, Just giving you down the road.
    Last edited by L-Webb; 07-24-2011 at 09:34 PM.
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