1. #1
    Forum Member
    IronValor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Richmond, Kentucky
    Posts
    210

    Default Brush/Wildland and Tree Fires that just wont go out

    The other day My Vollie house caught a job that came out as a Tree on Fire. We rolled the Brush truck and County sent one as well for backup and we proceeded to put the wet stuff on the red stuff... Easy enough right? Yeah about that... It took us 200 Gallons of water to put this thing out. One of the Farmers in the area was burning his ditch line and the fire got into a hollowed out tree and went ignorant. Anybody else ever have one that just refused to submit?
    Do not let the ghosts of our fallen brothers gaze upon you and ask " What have you done to my profession?" FTB DTRT EGH

  2. #2
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,028

    Default

    We use a TFT Bubble Cup nozzle and initially use the foam at a dish water type mix, soupy but sudsy. This consistency allows the foams to seep into all the nooks and crannies of the tree and effect extinguishment. If we need to move on because of other trees or a spreading brush fore we may bury the tree in move shaving cream type foam. All we have to do is change the setting on the nozzle to accomplish that.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  3. #3
    Back In Black
    ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    Its SOP here to "wet" the water with foam.

    Typically, with the state we batch mix a low percentage of foam and that helps tremendously.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  4. #4
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,592

    Default

    Just this summer we had hundreds and hundreds of 50-90' Cypress trees burning in a dry lakebed that refused to go out.

    Cedar trees can be equally challenging.

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    IronValor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Richmond, Kentucky
    Posts
    210

    Default

    Cedar trees are a bear to fight and it seems like they almost combust when a heat source is near them. As for foam I can not give you an educated anwser on why My department does not use it we just dont. However I think it would make life easier for the guys that do the firefighting.
    Do not let the ghosts of our fallen brothers gaze upon you and ask " What have you done to my profession?" FTB DTRT EGH

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    813

    Cool Trees

    When I worked in the local mountains here, we had A LOT of stubborn tree fires.

    Some of the ways that we dealt with them were: Class A Foam, Dawn dish washing detergent (cheap substitute for Class A Foam), digging the main roots up and extracting the stump, for standing "smokers" we had the USFS Sawyers across town drop the trees for us (fun to watch, fun for them and the guys here are amazing at it) and we also cleared the area of duff and let them burn (issue here is fire spread through the root system).

    If your Chief won't flip the bill for Class A Foam then try to convince them to buy Dawn dish washing soap (check with your Mechanics and Pump Manufacture to make sure it won't screw-up your Pumps seals). If memory serves me correct it's about $1 or so a bottle and works well as opposed to $100 bucks a bottle for Class A Foam.
    "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

    Life on the Truck (Quint) is good.....

    Eat til you're sleepy..... Sleep til you're hungry..... And repeat.....

  7. #7
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,012

    Default

    was there a danger if it fell ? If it had enough black around it, and was dead, why make a mess ? Flag it and let it burn clean. Now if it was a hazard, either drop it or cut a window in it and flood it from below.
    ?

  8. #8
    55 Years & Still Rolling
    hwoods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Glenn Dale Md, Heart of the P.G. County Fire Belt....
    Posts
    10,739

    Thumbs up And.......

    Having seen a few of these type Fires, I have to agree with the Class A Foam/Dishwasing Soap Guys. Back when I started in the Late 50's, There was a thing called "Wet Water". You had a Gadget monted on your apparatus, either piped from the pump or fed by a 1.5 hose, with a 1.5 discharge. The top of it opened, and you inserted a Stick of hard Detergent material, closed the top and charged the line. water flowed thru the thing and out the Attack Line. Each stick gave you about a half hour of really Soapy water before it was used up. They're probably still some around, but I haven't seen one for years in this area.


    Sudden Thought - HEY, FWD?? You know what I'm talking about here?........ Your knowledge of Antique Apparatus, you might have seen one......
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber
    tree68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Jefferson County, NY USA
    Posts
    2,284

    Default

    Haven't had much trouble with tree fires - the remains of abandoned barns are another story. Once again, soap (in whatever version - dish or Class A) is the answer. The old outbuildings are usually gone, but the old floor is often there, with plenty of little void spaces.

    Years ago (pre-class A foam) went back to one place three or four times. We'd put out everything we could find each time - no smoke showing when we left, but it was pretty deep seated and would start showing again.

    Some years later we'd been doing foam practice using dish soap. We had another stubborn old barn with fire under the floor, so we mixed up five gallons of "foam solution" with the dish detergent and used an eductor for application. It worked.
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    Bushwhacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Northern Rockies Region
    Posts
    638

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    Having seen a few of these type Fires, I have to agree with the Class A Foam/Dishwasing Soap Guys. Back when I started in the Late 50's, There was a thing called "Wet Water". You had a Gadget monted on your apparatus, either piped from the pump or fed by a 1.5 hose, with a 1.5 discharge. The top of it opened, and you inserted a Stick of hard Detergent material, closed the top and charged the line. water flowed thru the thing and out the Attack Line. Each stick gave you about a half hour of really Soapy water before it was used up. They're probably still some around, but I haven't seen one for years in this area.


    Sudden Thought - HEY, FWD?? You know what I'm talking about here?........ Your knowledge of Antique Apparatus, you might have seen one......
    You better be careful about that antique comment, I Know there are still some of the Old foam sticks around.

    As far as stubborn trees, You can Dump 1000 gals of water into one and it will smile and keep coming at you. The only way to mop it up good is drop the tree and then start buckin it up. But the worst Hands down is Pine duff, you have to almost let that crap burn out.
    Courage, Being Scared to Death and Saddling Up anyways.

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Dickey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    5,111

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    We use a TFT Bubble Cup nozzle and initially use the foam at a dish water type mix, soupy but sudsy. This consistency allows the foams to seep into all the nooks and crannies of the tree and effect extinguishment. If we need to move on because of other trees or a spreading brush fore we may bury the tree in move shaving cream type foam. All we have to do is change the setting on the nozzle to accomplish that.
    Exactly the same thing here. We don't get a lot of brush fires because we are 98% urban bedroom community but we do lots of mutual aid to our neighbors.


    Except we don't have to fight bears!!
    Jason Knecht
    Assistant Chief
    Altoona Fire Dept.
    Altoona, WI

    IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
    http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
    EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber
    LVFD301's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,954

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IronValor View Post
    The other day My Vollie house caught a job that came out as a Tree on Fire. We rolled the Brush truck and County sent one as well for backup and we proceeded to put the wet stuff on the red stuff... Easy enough right? Yeah about that... It took us 200 Gallons of water to put this thing out. One of the Farmers in the area was burning his ditch line and the fire got into a hollowed out tree and went ignorant. Anybody else ever have one that just refused to submit?
    Every day fire. Drop the tree. Do a burn for a nice black area for it to lay in. Go home.

    Drop the tree, and cut it up if you need to into little pieces.

  13. #13
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,012

    Default

    I agree with LVFD - why have a "water shuttle/ foam training class " on something that the owner wants gone any how ? Sometimes letting some thing burn is the best option.
    ?

  14. #14
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,028

    Default

    Yeah sure, drop it let it burn...not here, the DNR wants it out or someone to sit and watch it burn. This FD is volunteer and guys need to get back to work or back to their families. We are not going to sit and watch a tree burn for hours. It gets put out.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber
    LVFD301's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,954

    Default

    LOL... We don't have the DNR issues you do.

    And with a nicely cleared out area around it, we all go home and don't worry about it.

  16. #16
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,012

    Default

    The state forestry commission here tries to work with every one, they have even brought the plow and helped us break up hay bales. Different mindsets I guess.
    ?

  17. #17
    Forum Member
    IronValor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Richmond, Kentucky
    Posts
    210

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Every day fire. Drop the tree. Do a burn for a nice black area for it to lay in. Go home.

    Drop the tree, and cut it up if you need to into little pieces.

    That woulda been fine had the tree not been near a roadway. In this case cutting it down and cutting it up just was not an option due to the location of the tree.

    Thanks everybody for the replies!
    Do not let the ghosts of our fallen brothers gaze upon you and ask " What have you done to my profession?" FTB DTRT EGH

  18. #18
    Forum Member
    Bushwhacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Northern Rockies Region
    Posts
    638

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IronValor View Post
    That woulda been fine had the tree not been near a roadway. In this case cutting it down and cutting it up just was not an option due to the location of the tree.

    Thanks everybody for the replies!
    I will argue that to a certain extent, Granted it maybe be above your level(no harm intended) But you can Take a tree in almost any direction you want it.

    You have a bigger risk leaving that tree standing now 1. The possible fire spread. 2. You know that tree is compromised. Drop it, Buck it, and say #uck it.
    Courage, Being Scared to Death and Saddling Up anyways.

  19. #19
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    Having seen a few of these type Fires, I have to agree with the Class A Foam/Dishwasing Soap Guys. Back when I started in the Late 50's, There was a thing called "Wet Water". You had a Gadget monted on your apparatus, either piped from the pump or fed by a 1.5 hose, with a 1.5 discharge. The top of it opened, and you inserted a Stick of hard Detergent material, closed the top and charged the line. water flowed thru the thing and out the Attack Line. Each stick gave you about a half hour of really Soapy water before it was used up. They're probably still some around, but I haven't seen one for years in this area.


    Sudden Thought - HEY, FWD?? You know what I'm talking about here?........ Your knowledge of Antique Apparatus, you might have seen one......
    Wrap your fuzzy lil head around this one. IN YOUR career and about my starting time, there were lead tubes of wet water just the right size portion for an Indian tank. We had a BUNCH of them. Been many a fire I've gone to the market and bought a couple cases of bleach and batch mixed it in the forestry truck. If it's a SINGLE hollow tree burning,we usually drop it and put it out. T.C,

  20. #20
    Forum Member
    RangerJake72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Punta Gorda, FL
    Posts
    153

    Default

    burning tree, drop it, if it's standing, those embers could rain down anywheres and cause a spot fire or a new start, ideally, knock it down with a tractor (though I watched the county take one down with their duece brush truck today) or if you must, cut it down (if you can safely) then bury the thing in foam (bust it open if you at all can (running the downed tree over with the tracks does a great job, though if it's "lightered" pine, the inner core stays together and will smolder for days))
    "If you can't be a good example, the you'll just have to be a terrible warning."

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Firefighting History Timeline, 1608-1909 - Input Wanted
    By legeros in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 07-03-2010, 12:50 PM
  2. East Texas Church Fires up to 10
    By Station2Capt in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-23-2010, 10:31 AM
  3. SOP's for Volunteer FD
    By rumlfire in forum Volunteer Forum
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 08-01-2006, 10:35 PM
  4. World Of Fire Report: 09-29-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-08-2005, 11:44 AM
  5. AFFF or FFFP
    By Lallo in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-18-2002, 08:34 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register