1. #51
    MembersZone Subscriber
    BULL321's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Western, NC
    Posts
    3,432

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    You guys would put a stick, a pump, and 500 water on a single rear???
    That is what the Chief and the truck committee specked out. The HME by the way is a Dual axle with a 400 hp Cummins, 1500 gal Waterous Pump, 600 gal tank, foam cell and a good size pto generator. All of the rest of the trucks were single axle with 500 gal tanks
    Stay Safe
    Bull


    “Guys if you get hurt, we’ll help you. If you get sick we’ll treat you. If you want to bitch and moan, then all I can tell you is to flick the sand out of your slit, suck it up or get the hell out!”
    - Capt. Marc Cox CFD

    Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.
    -WINSTON CHURCHILL

  2. #52
    Forum Member
    FIREMECH1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    HUSKER LAND
    Posts
    2,425

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Two questions for everyone who has the single screw quints with 500 gallons...

    1. Are they legal according to your state's axle laws?

    2. How often do you burn through brakes?
    Don't have an answer for your first question. Don't know the laws, and don't want to.

    On the second, I did brakes all around on a 2003 Smeal Quint 75', 1500, 500g, single axle with just over 22,000 miles on it. Drum brakes all around, and also has a Telma installed. The VFD could have probably gone another year, but they wanted it done. The reason I included the Telma, is because it does lengthen the wear on brake shoes.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  3. #53
    Forum Member
    FIREMECH1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    HUSKER LAND
    Posts
    2,425

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BULL321 View Post
    That is what the Chief and the truck committee specked out. The HME by the way is a Dual axle with a 400 hp Cummins, 1500 gal Waterous Pump, 600 gal tank, foam cell and a good size pto generator. All of the rest of the trucks were single axle with 500 gal tanks
    In our neck of the woods, HME would have been kicked for non-compliance of the specs as proposed. Maybe some ammo to fight what you don't want???

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  4. #54
    MembersZone Subscriber
    npfd801's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Somewhere in Illinois
    Posts
    2,223

    Default

    [QUOTE=FyredUp;1255047][QUOTE=FWDbuff;1255044]
    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    They wouldn't be the only ones. There's many of that combination already out there and from a variety of manufacturers.

    Um, maybe because the twin screw is too long for the station? Maybe cost?
    I tried to push a tandem for the quint we're obtaining. Was told no. Even our EVT mechanic that the department uses suggested staying away from a tandem with a 75 foot aerial. I know which battles I have a chance of winning, and I know when I'd be more productive slamming my head in the desk drawer. I walked away from the battle.
    "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

  5. #55
    Forum Member
    FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,429

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    The reason I included the Telma, is because it does lengthen the wear on brake shoes.
    How many of your rigs have Telma's and do you have electrical system problems??
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  6. #56
    Forum Member
    FIREMECH1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    HUSKER LAND
    Posts
    2,425

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    How many of your rigs have Telma's and do you have electrical system problems??
    We have about 40 or so with the Telma's (1991-2008). The only problems we've had, were with 6 of the E-One HP1OO's we got. Seems like they were installed on a Monday. All of them had the relay boxes replaced after water got inside of them. They installed them with the wiring coming in from the top, rather than from the bottom. After replacing them and turning them to face downward, we haven't had any issues since. Outside of that, just replacement of the 2 air switches once in a while.

    As for the electrical load, there really hasn't been an issue.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  7. #57
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Two questions for everyone who has the single screw quints with 500 gallons...

    1. Are they legal according to your state's axle laws?

    2. How often do you burn through brakes?
    1. YES
    2. With a JAKE on a Big detroit or Cummins not those fooking mouse motors,NO PROBLEM. We don't have one anymore but our old Ladder was single X and we NEVER did the brakes,little to no wear after close to 15 years of service, NO water but a 100' steel stick. Our neighbors with single quints ARE NOT experiencing rapid brake wear. T.C.

  8. #58
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    224

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IronsMan53 View Post
    I would guess that his issue is with the RK aerial.

    We have 2 75' sticks and 3 104' towers... All RK.

    The sticks are ok but IMHO there are much better out there.

    The towers are downright frightening and I do not feel comfortable operating off of them. They flex more than anything that I have ever seen in my life. I've been up in a Scope, Sutphen, Grumman, KME (same as Grumman) and E-One platforms. None of them even came close to the amount of flex in the RK's.
    Sounds just like our old pre-NFPA 1991, Seagrave stick. It was bought from a dealer who refurbed an FDNY surplus stick. To me, that thing was scary once you got up towards the tip- way too much bounce and sway for my taste. And that's when it was in vertical mode. If it's unnerving for us, how do you think Mrs Smith feels about it? As if getting a panic stricken, smoke inhalation suffering person to climb down wasn't "interesting " enough!

    Most LADDERS are designed with some flex in them. I can't speak for tower ladders like the 'Scope and the Sutphen, that's a whole different animal. It may be part of the ladder's design, but it sure is an unnerving feeling isn't it? Then you have the ones that feel like they are made from an erector set buy a 10 yr old...

    Me and my large can will stick with the heavy duty ladders, please!

  9. #59
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    40

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Skysthelimit View Post
    This is a post by Mr. Phaze on 2/14/2011, I guess this sums up the years of experance that allowed for his opinion also the first hand knowledge to start this thread. Good luck in your Explorer program. and I with your continued growth in the fire service.
    Yep, he is going to be one of those.

  10. #60
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    224

    Default

    To answer an earlier post on axle weights-

    The DOT laws cover commercial vehicles, they're federal, not state. For dually axles or super singles it's 20,000#. 34,000# for a set of tandem axles.
    Maximum gross vehicle weight is 80,000#. Anything more than that and you need a special permit- for EACH load.

    The first is the reason you see a lot of semi trailers with spread axles- that way, each can have 20k# on it.

    Steer axles are allowed 12,000. Certain types of tires will allow more, but the GVWR remains the same.

    Technically, that single rear axle quint would have a gvwr of 32,000#... Exceptions probably exist, but why design a rig that's overweight by federal standards? The weight limits are there for a reason. Strait trucks intended to carry Heavy loads get extra axles- to increase braking power!

    I'd be interested to see a CAT scale ticket for one of those quints.

  11. #61
    Forum Member
    FIREMECH1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    HUSKER LAND
    Posts
    2,425

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nozzle nut 22 View Post
    To answer an earlier post on axle weights- The DOT laws cover commercial vehicles, they're federal, not state.
    Excellent point.

    I went through our next pumper order specs today, and one of the requirements was the point that the axle weight must follow under Federal, not State laws.

    I know you said commercial, but I assume it also implies or includes custom fire apparatuses. Correct me if I am wrong.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  12. #62
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    SW Missouri
    Posts
    1,156

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nozzle nut 22 View Post
    To answer an earlier post on axle weights-

    The DOT laws cover commercial vehicles, they're federal, not state. For dually axles or super singles it's 20,000#. 34,000# for a set of tandem axles.
    Maximum gross vehicle weight is 80,000#. Anything more than that and you need a special permit- for EACH load.

    The first is the reason you see a lot of semi trailers with spread axles- that way, each can have 20k# on it.

    Steer axles are allowed 12,000. Certain types of tires will allow more, but the GVWR remains the same.

    Technically, that single rear axle quint would have a gvwr of 32,000#... Exceptions probably exist, but why design a rig that's overweight by federal standards? The weight limits are there for a reason. Strait trucks intended to carry Heavy loads get extra axles- to increase braking power!

    I'd be interested to see a CAT scale ticket for one of those quints.
    On the steer it is just more than tires that allows you to go over 12,000. Axle, wheels and tires all have to be rated for the weight carried. While the 12,34,34 rule is a federal rule it for interstate highways. Some states allow different axle weights and some have different gross weights. All of that pertains to a 5 axle closed axle semi. The only thing that the feds care about is the interstates.

    Many of the custom firetrucks are running upward to 20,000 pound steer axles on them.

  13. #63
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    HERE, they are Exempt. For now.Ran a experiment to run 100,000 on State Interstate highways. It was a Success so you may find Maine law changing to permanently allow it. Time will tell. T.C.

  14. #64
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    224

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    Excellent point.

    I went through our next pumper order specs today, and one of the requirements was the point that the axle weight must follow under Federal, not State laws.

    I know you said commercial, but I assume it also implies or includes custom fire apparatuses. Correct me if I am wrong.

    FM1
    Nah, I meant commercial vehicles, as in trucks, not commercial chassis...
    Sorry for the confusion!

    As for the steer axle, I knew there must be more to it. That's just what the company told us during training- keeping it simple so as not to confuse the window lickers and knuckle draggers, I guess...

    Without a set of specs handy, it's kind of hard to differentiate between a heavy duty front end and an overweight one when crossing a scale. I always prefer NOT to have to pull over and get looked over by the DOT guys!

    Rescue1: I'm not surprised to hear that for Maine. Lots of heavy loads moving around up there: logging trucks, paper loads, and Poland Spring. That last one just loves to cram trailers FULL of bottles and jugs of water- regardless of what it weighs... Water loads suck, esp in hill country.

  15. #65
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Fantasy Island
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Wasn't this thread about the new batch of FDNY RMA's. Please note that a vehicle is not considered unsafe if its total loaded weight (GVWR) or axle loading (GAWR) is greater than local, state or federal weight laws. Those laws are more tailored to reduce road and infrastructure damage. If a MFG certifies a tandem axle & its associated components (i.e. brakes) with a capacity (GAWR) of 44,000 pounds that is exactly what it has been designed to be safely loaded and operated at. While you may be subject to a ticket for being over the 34,000 lb tandem axle weight law this doesn’t mean the vehicle is unsafe and is being operated beyond its designed GVWR or GAWR.

    Most Custom fire apparatus are equipped with 18,000 to 22,000 lb GAWR front axles due to the Cab over design and ability to place a greater % of the weight forward. Note the location of the Booster Tank, Pump and Engine on the chassis. A 12,000 lb front axle would never cut on today’s custom rigs ---- many - many years ago the Mack’s as well as many others were a bit light on the front axle capacities. The location of the toque box on Midmount Tower Ladders necessitates the use of front axles with a GAWR of 21,500 lbs and the wheel bases on these units must be shortened in order to try and get some of that weight off the front axle and shifted to the rear tandems thus resulting in a substantial rear overhang – tail swing. In some cases counter balance weights are placed on the chassis to the rear of the tandems to get some of the weight off the front axle.

    Here are the weight laws for NYC, NYS and the Feds. You should check those for your State and Municipalities. They may be similar to those listed below and provide specific regulations for fire apparatus/municipal vehicles like NYS has.

    New York City Weight Laws.
    • Weight per inch width of tire on one wheel 800 lbs.
    • Weight on any one wheel 11,200 lbs.
    • Weight on any one axle 22,400 lbs.
    • Weight on any two consecutive axles less than 10 feet a part 36,000 lbs.
    • Weight on any three axles (34,000 lb. Plus 1,000 lb. per foot and major fraction of a foot between first and last axles, measured center to center).
    • Total weight of vehicle shall not exceed 80,000 lbs.

    New York State Weight Laws for Fire Vehicles.
    • The total weight on any one wheel shall not be more than 16,000 lbs.
    • The total weight on a single axle shall not be more than 32,000 lbs.
    • The total weight on two consecutive axles, when such axles are spaced less than ten feet from center to center, shall not be more than 42,000 lbs.
    • The total weight on all axles of a two axle vehicle shall not be more than 52,000 thousand pounds.

    Federal Weight Laws applicable to the Interstate Highway System.
    • Single Axle: 20,000 pounds
    • Tandem Axle: 34,000 pounds
    • Gross Vehicle Weight: 80,000 pounds

    Be Careful.

  16. #66
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    224

    Default

    Just viewed pics on the FFA website. I must say, this looks like a very nice body design! In particular, I like the grab n go extinguisher cmpt, and that nifty compartment they designed for the clip on pipe. Opens on top AND on the side. I can see the top flap getting in the way, though- perhaps it could be made hinged on one side, to open flat against the top of the body. Either way, it looks like a hell of a rig!

    Will any of these be shown at the Harrisburg show??

    Those rescues look good, too- THREE winches! I also like the compartments built into the rear of the body- fill em with all the search related tools, and the crew can grab em as they exit.

    Low sides open on the outside, high sides to the inside. That's one way to solve the dilemma of which tool to relagate to the top shelf ( where it's harder to get at)! Simply eliminate the high shelves. Also reduces by 50% the number of compts available to thieving bastards to rifle through.

    Is that a skylight I see in the crew compartment?

  17. #67
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    75

    Default

    I saw the Rescue and Aerial at FDIC. Nice Rigs. Ferrara did a good job on them. The one thing that stood out to me was the brackets on each of the compartment doors that allow for a padlock to be put on them. I guess nothing is sacred in NY!

    I also saw a FDNY Engine at the Seagrave Booth. Are they still building engines for them?

    Good luck with the rigs guys!

  18. #68
    Forum Member
    MemphisE34a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Memphis, TN - USA
    Posts
    2,531

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nozzle nut 22 View Post
    Just viewed pics on the FFA website. I must say, this looks like a very nice body design! In particular, I like the grab n go extinguisher cmpt, and that nifty compartment they designed for the clip on pipe. Opens on top AND on the side. I can see the top flap getting in the way, though- perhaps it could be made hinged on one side, to open flat against the top of the body.
    They who?

    I also saw the rigs in Indy. I noticed a few things that I would take exception to. Having said that, they were mostly cosmetic, but if that is the workmanship that they decided to put on "display" at a major trade show, I would hate to see some of their standard builds.

    I am not saying the jury is out, but I am still not impressed with Ferrara.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  19. #69
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    224

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    They who?

    I also saw the rigs in Indy. I noticed a few things that I would take exception to. Having said that, they were mostly cosmetic, but if that is the workmanship that they decided to put on "display" at a major trade show, I would hate to see some of their standard builds.

    I am not saying the jury is out, but I am still not impressed with Ferrara.
    "they" being either the FDNY truck committee, or the FFA engineers. I assume it was FDNY who asked for the compt to be built this way. I'm not affiliated with either, and have no idea whose concept this is, so I used "They" to mean "Whomever designed this."

    For Fire562: Dirtballs will steal from anyone at anytime the opportunity presents itself- that's what makes them dirtballs... I've spoken to city guys who said they tend to equip the engines that sit at hydrants with as little as possible, because idiots will steal whatever isn't nailed down... Locking cmpts work well, too, as long as you don't lose or misplace the key!

    I agree, it's pretty #$%&ing sad when when we have to resort to this, and locking hydrant/FDC/ standpipe caps; special hydrant wrenches; or security personnel to keep an eye on the truck when we're busy helping somebody!!

  20. #70
    Forum Member
    Chauffeur6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Metro NY
    Posts
    613

    Default

    Junk. The city will be replacing them within 5 years because they won't be able to take the abuse. More taxpayer money flushed down the ****ter.

  21. #71
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Northeast Coast
    Posts
    3,908

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nozzle nut 22 View Post
    I've spoken to city guys who said they tend to equip the engines that sit at hydrants with as little as possible, because idiots will steal whatever isn't nailed down...
    Huh? Many two piece companies still out there? I doubt this is the case in NYC as they are masters of standardization, with good reason.

  22. #72
    Forum Member
    IronsMan53's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    656

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chauffer6 View Post
    Junk. The city will be replacing them within 5 years because they won't be able to take the abuse. More taxpayer money flushed down the ****ter.
    What is the issue? Fit and finish? The aerial? Choice of materials?

    BTW, they won't be replacing them within 5 years... maybe the 6th. Remember, there's a 5 year bumper to bumper warranty.
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

  23. #73
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    224

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Huh? Many two piece companies still out there? I doubt this is the case in NYC as they are masters of standardization, with good reason.
    Rochester, NY. They ran Quint/ midi companies for years. The midi's kept a lot of the miles off the quints by handling the EMS runs and service calls. At fires, they were a good way to avoid the not so good hoselaying/carrying ability of the quint- quint goes right to the scene, midi supplies the quint. There were issues at reverse lays, and high rise calls with a%&holes stealing stuff from the trucks.

    They're reorganizing now- the midis are on the way out ( if there are still any left, haven't been to the website in a while), and they are going to regular truck/engine houses- with quints as the truck company ( E-Ones).


    Come to think of it, did FDNY EVER run companies like that?

  24. #74
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    224

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IronsMan53 View Post
    What is the issue? Fit and finish? The aerial? Choice of materials?

    BTW, they won't be replacing them within 5 years... maybe the 6th. Remember, there's a 5 year bumper to bumper warranty.
    Not for nothing, Irons, the issues you listed are all purchaser related.

    If there were a lot of fit/finish issues, as Memphis Alluded to, it kinda makes me wonder if this rig was rushed thru post production JUST to get it to Indy in time.

    If somebody doesn't do a final inspection, or lets lots of niggling little stuff go without addressing it- then really, shame on them. The ladders esp are a total custom job- they're designed esp FOR FDNY, and they are like no others FFA makes. I can definitely see the first few off the line needing a few adjustments, esp if NY is as particular about delivery dates as they are about warranty!

  25. #75
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Somewhere in the southeast.
    Posts
    1,072

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaze View Post
    I don't know if anyone seen this, http://www.ferrarafire.com/CustomerS...roduction.html

    To meet it looks like the production itself is near completion, but not service. Does anyone know the companies that will be using these (pieces of junk)

    But after all a truck is only as good as its specs.
    If you look at the pics, you'll see that Rescue 3, Big Blue, is getting one of them. Already has the decals on it. The other two rescues couldn't tell ya.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Never Forget!
    By wyesguy24 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 09-11-2007, 10:25 PM
  2. Firefighters Betrayed
    By Nail200 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 259
    Last Post: 07-07-2007, 04:11 PM
  3. saying from 9-11-01 and the year 2001
    By mtnfyre21 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 08-26-2005, 09:51 AM
  4. We have to look into our darkest day
    By harlemBrother in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-02-2002, 07:41 PM
  5. MY PRAYERS TO OUR FELLOW EMERGENCY WORKERS IN NEW YORK
    By actionj21 in forum Line of Duty: In Memory Of
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 09-21-2001, 05:20 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register