1. #76
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    Nevermind, read back and question was answered.
    Last edited by firefightinirish217; 03-29-2011 at 07:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    You guys would put a stick, a pump, and 500 water on a single rear???
    That's what Ladder 3, my last assignment at DFD was. Never had a problem with handling as most of the weight was centrally located and the center of gravity on Sutphens is a lot lower than most aerials. It's a great truck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Two questions for everyone who has the single screw quints with 500 gallons...

    1. Are they legal according to your state's axle laws?

    2. How often do you burn through brakes?
    1. Yes, otherwise Dalton couldn't run it. The fire department has to follow all of the road laws, including license plates, that civillians have to follow.

    2. No worse thn the tandem axle tower or any of the engines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nozzle nut 22 View Post
    Not for nothing, Irons, the issues you listed are all purchaser related.

    If there were a lot of fit/finish issues, as Memphis Alluded to, it kinda makes me wonder if this rig was rushed thru post production JUST to get it to Indy in time.

    If somebody doesn't do a final inspection, or lets lots of niggling little stuff go without addressing it- then really, shame on them. The ladders esp are a total custom job- they're designed esp FOR FDNY, and they are like no others FFA makes. I can definitely see the first few off the line needing a few adjustments, esp if NY is as particular about delivery dates as they are about warranty!
    I am aware of that. I was just throwing those out there to rope him in.
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire562 View Post
    I saw the Rescue and Aerial at FDIC. Nice Rigs. Ferrara did a good job on them. The one thing that stood out to me was the brackets on each of the compartment doors that allow for a padlock to be put on them. I guess nothing is sacred in NY!

    I also saw a FDNY Engine at the Seagrave Booth. Are they still building engines for them?

    Good luck with the rigs guys!
    They, Seagrave, are still in business and are still making pumpers for the FDNY.

    The Pumpers will out last the new aerials.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    They, Seagrave, are still in business and are still making pumpers for the FDNY.
    Just got an order for 15 Aerialscopes last week, too.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    on the average, what's the life span of a FDNY rig?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctxffman View Post
    on the average, what's the life span of a FDNY rig?
    Probably 5 to 10 years.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    They, Seagrave, are still in business and are still making pumpers for the FDNY.

    The Pumpers will out last the new aerials.
    In other words, you don't think the truck committee did their job. After all, they wouldn't accept them if they weren't built the way them want them, regardless of who the builder may be.

    Personally, I have a little more faith in FDNY than you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    In other words, you don't think the truck committee did their job. After all, they wouldn't accept them if they weren't built the way them want them, regardless of who the builder may be.

    Personally, I have a little more faith in FDNY than you.
    It's not about the committee doing their job. I think they put forth a lot of great ideas and work into them.

    It is all about the runs and wear and tear on the apparatus. If anything holds up from 5 to 10 years in the FDNY, they are an exception.

    The city doesn't keep apparatus as long as Resume Speed Nevada does and they are usually pretty worn by the 10 years that they been in service.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    It's not about the committee doing their job. I think they put forth a lot of great ideas and work into them.

    It is all about the runs and wear and tear on the apparatus. If anything holds up from 5 to 10 years in the FDNY, they are an exception.

    The city doesn't keep apparatus as long as Resume Speed Nevada does and they are usually pretty worn by the 10 years that they been in service.
    Quit backpedaling.

    If I'm not mistaken, on average, their engine companies run more than truck companies. So therefore the engines should have more wear and tear on them. Yet, you are saying they will outlast the trucks.

    So, is it all about the wear and tear like you stated in your last post? Or, is it because of the manufacturer like you stated in your first post?
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    It's not about the committee doing their job. I think they put forth a lot of great ideas and work into them.
    Yet, you second guess them.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    It is all about the runs and wear and tear on the apparatus. If anything holds up from 5 to 10 years in the FDNY, they are an exception.
    Duh. I'll bet they never thought about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    The city doesn't keep apparatus as long as Resume Speed Nevada does and they are usually pretty worn by the 10 years that they been in service.
    You got any specifics or are you just generally griping?

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    The fact is this...Ferrara is not the brand that some here would have purchased. Hence it is junk.

    The fire service is really that simple minded.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctxffman View Post
    on the average, what's the life span of a FDNY rig?
    With VERY LITTLE exception, rigs are kept in front line service for 10 years. Period. After that they are sent to the spare pool and they'll stick around until no longer serviceable or replaced by a new spare. You don't have to look far to find rear-mount spares from 1994. You can't miss them, mostly rust!

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    It's not about the committee doing their job. I think they put forth a lot of great ideas and work into them.

    It is all about the runs and wear and tear on the apparatus. If anything holds up from 5 to 10 years in the FDNY, they are an exception.

    The city doesn't keep apparatus as long as Resume Speed Nevada does and they are usually pretty worn by the 10 years that they been in service.
    You've got to remember. This isn't a committee of chiefs and firemen putting together a rig specification. This is a entire team comprised of some members from every rank, but just as important, members of the full-time FDNY shops crew are on hand to assist in designing the rig.

    The new engines WON'T out last the Ferrara trucks. They'll last the very same 10 years that all of our apparatus last. (Fewer than a 10 year replacement is odd) Believe me, they're beat up when they reach life's end, but the manufacturer doesn't impact this. It makes no difference who builds the rig. None. They all meet the same drive-train specs. The engines and trans. are made by the same companies, so are all the internal components. Who cares who puts it together....

    I'm certain these Ferrara rigs will have trouble. But guess what? The new Seagrave rigs have a lot of problems too! That's just how it goes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nozzle nut 22 View Post
    Rochester, NY. They ran Quint/ midi companies for years. The midi's kept a lot of the miles off the quints by handling the EMS runs and service calls. At fires, they were a good way to avoid the not so good hoselaying/carrying ability of the quint- quint goes right to the scene, midi supplies the quint. There were issues at reverse lays, and high rise calls with a%&holes stealing stuff from the trucks.

    They're reorganizing now- the midis are on the way out ( if there are still any left, haven't been to the website in a while), and they are going to regular truck/engine houses- with quints as the truck company ( E-Ones).


    Come to think of it, did FDNY EVER run companies like that?
    The FDNY has never run a system like this. THANK GOD! It sucks! Quints are nothing more than a way to cut staffing and save city money while short changing on ACTUAL fire protection. Engine/Truck, the only way to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDsouthbxNY View Post
    With VERY LITTLE exception, rigs are kept in front line service for 10 years. Period. After that they are sent to the spare pool and they'll stick around until no longer serviceable or replaced by a new spare. You don't have to look far to find rear-mount spares from 1994. You can't miss them, mostly rust!



    You've got to remember. This isn't a committee of chiefs and firemen putting together a rig specification. This is a entire team comprised of some members from every rank, but just as important, members of the full-time FDNY shops crew are on hand to assist in designing the rig.

    The new engines WON'T out last the Ferrara trucks. They'll last the very same 10 years that all of our apparatus last. (Fewer than a 10 year replacement is odd) Believe me, they're beat up when they reach life's end, but the manufacturer doesn't impact this. It makes no difference who builds the rig. None. They all meet the same drive-train specs. The engines and trans. are made by the same companies, so are all the internal components. Who cares who puts it together....

    I'm certain these Ferrara rigs will have trouble. But guess what? The new Seagrave rigs have a lot of problems too! That's just how it goes.
    And here we have it....the voice of reason!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDsouthbxNY View Post
    The FDNY has never run a system like this. THANK GOD! It sucks! Quints are nothing more than a way to cut staffing and save city money while short changing on ACTUAL fire protection. Engine/Truck, the only way to go.
    thats exactly what they did too. Rochester took Engine/Truck houses with 6 firemen and 2 officers, and folded it into the Quint/Midi's with 5 firemen and 1 officer. The system worked alright for them, they run their fair shares of fire(Rochester is like a less crappy Detroit, but not by much) and ran this system for 20+ years. Now that they are going back to Engines/Trucks (actually quints but shhhh... we'll just call them trucks) they are just cutting the midi's out and creating a 4 man engine or "truck" out of the once 6 man company.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    thats exactly what they did too. Rochester took Engine/Truck houses with 6 firemen and 2 officers, and folded it into the Quint/Midi's with 5 firemen and 1 officer. The system worked alright for them, they run their fair shares of fire(Rochester is like a less crappy Detroit, but not by much) and ran this system for 20+ years. Now that they are going back to Engines/Trucks (actually quints but shhhh... we'll just call them trucks) they are just cutting the midi's out and creating a 4 man engine or "truck" out of the once 6 man company.
    Well, this is all kinds of backwards. I'm aware that Rochester does their share of work and has great guys. My issue is that implementing a quint is a way of taking 2 units, properly staffed and reducing it to 1. In NYC this would be like taking a firehouse with and engine and a truck
    (9 firemen and 2 officers) and replacing it with a quint and cutting the staffing in half. This would severely reduce operational capacity. Quints are a way for cities to cut staffing and pretend that fire protection is the same. A big fat lie.

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    Sadly, I don't see the $$ situation in Rochester getting better any time soon... Too many jobs have left, and many who DO have good jobs left the city for quieter, less crime ridden neighborhoods.

    Seems like every time I log on Monroe county fire wire, every second or third story is a structure fire in Rochester... At that rate, there won't be much city left!

    I can agree that using a combo rig to shrink your labor pool pretty much stinks. So does being short on dough. Done right though, a quint can ADD to your capability- if you run them as trucks WITH an engine.

    I think they're probably a better deal in volly depts. It puts all your tools right there in front. We love ours, the committee designed it to be a good truck first, to replace an out of service stick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    You guys would put a stick, a pump, and 500 water on a single rear???
    pierce did it for a local company.

    correction: i believe it has 400 water.



    all this talk about junk crap garbage trash trucks. at least none you poor bastards were stuck with one the last "spare parts" new lex that rolled off the line.

    50K ontop of the original price for just repairing all the problems via 3rd party builder. id take a ferrara any day. at least they are still in business and can have the opportunity to screw us on a warranty.

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    The third party thing is why We will no longer buy a truck unless its from a single source. Too much finger pointing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce355 View Post
    The third party thing is why We will no longer buy a truck unless its from a single source. Too much finger pointing.
    Then do what we did- Put into your spec that the "Builder assumes any and all warranty liability."
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Then do what we did- Put into your spec that the "Builder assumes any and all warranty liability."
    Exactly. Don't worry about sole source, worry about sole responsibility.
    Career Fire Captain
    Volunteer Chief Officer


    Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce355 View Post
    The third party thing is why We will no longer buy a truck unless its from a single source. Too much finger pointing.
    Then you will be tied to a couple HIGH priced builders when all you have to do is SPECIFY Sole Responsibility in the Builders warranty section. NOT really that difficult and acomplishes the same objective. T.C.

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