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    Default Wisconsin Union fight-just lost

    Im sure most of you are atleast somewhat aware of our (WI) budget repair bill, compliments of our new governor. They just passed the bill that eliminates CBA for all public employees, except fire and police. But that will soon come Im sure.

    Locally, the mayor is asking the police and fire unions to make concessions like the other public employees are being required to do, and that is contribute more to pension and healthcare benefits.

    There is already rumblings of mass retirements by county workers today. If you were in this position and could, would you be considering retirement in the very near future?? Im curious as someone that is hoping for a career FF, and those positions are few and far between around here.

    Im guessing a lot more potential positions opening up within the next year or so... your thoughts?

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    The contributioins being asked are still far less than the contrubutions demanded of porivate sector employees by private sector employers.

    The 8% pension contribution is still less than I contribute as a firefighter here, and the health care contribution is quite small compared to private sector employees.

    Fact is, I would not resign over that unless i was a full retirement.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    new jersey, ohio and wisconsni are all huge attacks on the rights of the comon working man. its a sad sad day for the middle class worker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The contributioins being asked are still far less than the contrubutions demanded of porivate sector employees by private sector employers.

    The 8% pension contribution is still less than I contribute as a firefighter here, and the health care contribution is quite small compared to private sector employees.

    Fact is, I would not resign over that unless i was a full retirement.
    Thanks for not paying attention again and posting. The BIGGEST ISSUE is the elimination of Collective Bargaining and his anti-labor, Union busting, bill.

    Please try to be informed if you are going to talk about the political inner workings of MY state.
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    Collective bargaining was not eliminated.

    Unions will still have the right to collective bargaining for wages.

    Collective bargaining for all other matters will be put to the voters.

    So if the voters who pay the taxes for the state workers wages and benefits say it's ok, you can have collective bargaining on more than just wages.

    Read the bill please. There is so much false information around right now because so many people and organizations ( and politicians ) have their own agenda and have been distorting many facts.

    The bill has been posted for all to read for quite some time now.
    We do not rise to the occasion. We fall back to our level of training.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DFDMAXX View Post
    Collective bargaining was not eliminated.

    Unions will still have the right to collective bargaining for wages.

    Collective bargaining for all other matters will be put to the voters.

    So if the voters who pay the taxes for the state workers wages and benefits say it's ok, you can have collective bargaining on more than just wages.

    Read the bill please. There is so much false information around right now because so many people and organizations ( and politicians ) have their own agenda and have been distorting many facts.

    The bill has been posted for all to read for quite some time now.
    I am not from Wisconsin, but my understanding is the only thing that can be negotiated in this new bill is wages, which leaves out working conditions and benefits. Also, requires a vote every year by those represented by a union if they want to continue being represented..and further removes auto deduction of dues.

    If I am reading what you have wrote, you are saying a ballot must be presented to the voters of the state of Wisconsin , which means essentially the employees are bargaining by ballot measure for working conditions and benefits with the public. Who pays to run this election? Take a look at the current MOU's of each employee group, how many issues can you vote on. It's interesting to see how the mood is to put the blame on the backs of the employees and paint the picture of the big union boss, and the employer has had no hand in this. Collective bargaining is not done at the ballot box, and if you believe that fairytale story than your just as much an idiot as la fire educator on this issue and unions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by babcusar5 View Post
    I am not from Wisconsin, but my understanding is the only thing that can be negotiated in this new bill is wages, which leaves out working conditions and benefits. Also, requires a vote every year by those represented by a union if they want to continue being represented..and further removes auto deduction of dues.

    If I am reading what you have wrote, you are saying a ballot must be presented to the voters of the state of Wisconsin , which means essentially the employees are bargaining by ballot measure for working conditions and benefits with the public. Who pays to run this election? Take a look at the current MOU's of each employee group, how many issues can you vote on. It's interesting to see how the mood is to put the blame on the backs of the employees and paint the picture of the big union boss, and the employer has had no hand in this. Collective bargaining is not done at the ballot box, and if you believe that fairytale story than your just as much an idiot as la fire educator on this issue and unions.
    Collective barganing isn't done at the ballot box. The logical route would be a referendum on the bi-annual election. The voters would decide if an issue can be bargained upon. If yes, the bargaining would take place in a normal manner. Not for certain locals, but for all.

    Lets debate the facts, or do you just want to call each other names? If so, we can have the mods create a kindergarten forum so we can just smear each other.

    FYI: used to be a union steward. I point out facts without taking a position and I get called names by folks who have not done thier homework.

    Don't people want to have facts? FACTS CERTAINLY HELP YOU IN A FIGHT AGAINST AN ISSUE, YES?
    And when you spout off without facts, you make your position laughable.
    We do not rise to the occasion. We fall back to our level of training.

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    Okay.. using your logic. let's have the stockholders of a company vote each your to see if you should get pay raise....
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Okay.. using your logic. let's have the stockholders of a company vote each your to see if you should get pay raise....
    Not my logic. Please read the bill.
    Last edited by DFDMAXX; 03-12-2011 at 10:38 PM.
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    As a Wisconsin resident, a career firefighter, and a tech college instructor my opinion is that this is the worst thing to happen to labor in decades.

    DFDMAXX...I warned both you and Jasper that walker was a loose cannon back before the election. So far what has he accomplished? His failure to even pretend to negotiate has cost the state hundred of thousands of dollars in additional security at the Capitol. Do you honestly believe that this will be over even if his entire budget passes? NOT A CHANCE. All his devisiveness has done is awaken the public. Demonstrations continue at the Capitol and in many other locations around the state. Moves to get recall elections are underway. With certainty a recall effort will be pushed against walker when his year is up.

    His sneaky end around to pass his destruction of the true meaning of collective bargaining proves his true agenda and what a snake he is. Look if it was truly about the budget deficit why not accept the concessions by state employees, declare a victory and negotiate the rest? BECAUSE IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BUDGET. If it did he wouldn't have had his Republican cronies remove all of the fiscal components so they could dirty trick pass it.

    Walker has already begun to pay back those that supported him. Maybe YOU need to pay attention.

    Can I ask, are you a career firefighter? In Milwaukee?
    Last edited by FyredUp; 03-13-2011 at 05:29 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    As a Wisconsin resident, a career firefighter, and a tech college instructor my opinion is that this is the worst thing to happen to labor in decades.

    DFDMAXX...I warned both you and Jasper that walker was a loose cannon back before the election. So far what has he accomplished? His failure to even pretend to negotiate has cost the state hundred of thousands of dollars in additional security at the Capitol. Do you honestly believe that this will be over even if his entire budget passes? NOT A CHANCE. All his devisiveness has done is awaken the public. Demonstrations continue at the Capitol and in many other locations around the state. Moves to get recall elections are underway. With certainty a recall effort will be pushed against walker when his year is up.

    His sneaky end around to pass his destruction of the true meaning of collective bargaining proves his true agenda and what a snake he is. Look if it was truly about the budget deficit why not accept the concessions by state employees, declare a victory and negotiate the rest? BECAUSE IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BUDGET. If it did he wouldn't have had his Republican cronies remove all of the fiscal components so they could dirty trick pass it.

    Walker has already begun to pay back those that supported him. Maybe YOU need to pay attention.

    Can I ask, are you a career firefighter? In Milwaukee?
    Yes sir, you warned us. And I don't believe I said anywhere here that I support the effort to remove much of the collective bargaining rights.

    Just because I didn't pat a previous poster on the butt and tell him to buck up, we're all in agreement here, responses have been leaning towards me being in support of it.

    You're ****ed. I get it. Please be ****ed at the right people. I'm not telling you you're wrong. I understand now why you posted that you have lost friends over this issue.

    Have a good night sir. I wish you well in your endeavors.
    We do not rise to the occasion. We fall back to our level of training.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DFDMAXX View Post
    Yes sir, you warned us. And I don't believe I said anywhere here that I support the effort to remove much of the collective bargaining rights.

    Just because I didn't pat a previous poster on the butt and tell him to buck up, we're all in agreement here, responses have been leaning towards me being in support of it.

    You're ****ed. I get it. Please be ****ed at the right people. I'm not telling you you're wrong. I understand now why you posted that you have lost friends over this issue.

    Have a good night sir. I wish you well in your endeavors.
    The difference is YOU supported him. Before the election, even when I told you who and what he was, you defended his position right here on these forums. You told me to look at his record...Believe me, working in Milwaukee County I knew all about what scott walker was about.

    If the truth about what he is doing makes you not want to talk to me anymore so be it. But I am NOT going to back away from this. walker needs to be exposed for what he is truly doing, and removed from office as soon as legally possible. Ask yourself why people from all walks of life have come out to demonstrate against this? Did you see the crowd at the Capitol on Saturday? It is only just beginning. All walker has done is awaken a sleeping giant...

    Frankly, how any public employee, or for that matter any citizen of good conscience, could support him is beyond me.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 03-13-2011 at 08:17 PM. Reason: clarity
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    Quote Originally Posted by rudydc View Post
    Im sure most of you are atleast somewhat aware of our (WI) budget repair bill, compliments of our new governor. They just passed the bill that eliminates CBA for all public employees, except fire and police. But that will soon come Im sure.

    Locally, the mayor is asking the police and fire unions to make concessions like the other public employees are being required to do, and that is contribute more to pension and healthcare benefits.

    There is already rumblings of mass retirements by county workers today. If you were in this position and could, would you be considering retirement in the very near future?? Im curious as someone that is hoping for a career FF, and those positions are few and far between around here.

    Im guessing a lot more potential positions opening up within the next year or so... your thoughts?
    I think it says it all in this blog entry.

    http://box45.blogspot.com/2011/03/wi...orkers-of.html
    "Did you check under the bed?" -- Judge Crater, 1930

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The contributioins being asked are still far less than the contrubutions demanded of porivate sector employees by private sector employers.
    The 8% pension contribution is still less than I contribute as a firefighter here, and the health care contribution is quite small compared to private sector employees.
    Fact is, I would not resign over that unless i was a full retirement.
    That is not the point. We are not private sector employees. In NJ. USAToday reported that firefighters have a life expectancy of 7 years after retirement and a life expectency of 56 years old. When I took this job I took it knowing that I will most likely end up with cancer due to the elevated rates amongst firefighters, but I also took it knowing I will have paid up health benefits for my life. Those benefits were negotiated at the bargaining table and were won through other concessions. The fire service has always been a "slow and steady" with security, now that everyone else's job went to sh** they want our benefits. We have a governor who is changing everything through legislation and with a swipe of a pen changing what took years and years of bargaining. Just because you have a crap contract doesn't mean the rest of us should suffer as well.

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