Riding Positions?

[rkulp51]

Does your company have riding positions on your apparatus? Do you have predetermined positions for each truck in your department? What are they for the engine and truck or rescue and what do they do?

[CaptOldTimer]

Position 1 - Officer

Position 2 - Driver/Operator

Position 3 - Hydrant Member

Position 4 - EMS Provider or Nozzle Member

Position 5 - 6 if manned - Nozzle Member

[TillamanTrk1]

Position 1 - Officer

Position 2 - Driver/Operator

Position 3 - Hydrant Member

Position 4 - EMS Provider or Nozzle Member

Position 5 - 6 if manned - Nozzle Member

HOLY STAFFING BATMAN!!! One day I hope to be able to staff 5 on a TRUCK much less an engine wow!

[Bones42]

Not riding positions, but assignments.

[DeputyMarshal]

Yes, all of our apparatus utilizes the same standard riding position: Seated.

Sorry, long overnight shift. A little punchy this morning.

[BSFD140]

It varies for us. We are a combination department which typically has three man engine companies and so the first arriving engine the ff might have to jump out wrap the hydrant then hop back in, become the nozzle man. Other times the second in engine will pull and hook up the supply line for the 1st in engine. Other times it is the off duty and paid on call guys that will tag the hydrants. All kind of depends on the call and if one of the part time/poc guys is working/helping staff the engine.

[Bones42]

attachments didn't come through....

They are on post #2 of this thread....http://www.firehouse.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111956 (Riding Assignments)

[Capt7215]

At my volunteer department, we have assignments by seating position (where you sit is what you do). Here's our SOG:

SUBJECT: Apparatus Riding Assignments for Structure Fires

Purpose:
The following guideline outlines tools and responsibilities for each member of an apparatus crew responding to structure fires.

Policy:
Apparatus riding assignments are a type of “mini incident command system” for each responding apparatus to structure fires. Members must know their duties and tools required for the seat they are riding in. This system requires that each member completes their duties to ensure a safe and efficient fireground operation. Deviation can only be authorized by the officer/acting officer of that apparatus or the incident commander. Riding assignments are classified by the two main areas of fireground operations: engine company operations and support company operations (also known as “truck work”). WTFD riding assignments will encompass both of these areas.

Engine Company Operations:
Generally, the most important task for the first arriving engine will be to deploy the initial attack line and get water on the fire. Early control of the fire can make a safer environment for trapped occupants and fire department personnel. All members of the engine company should focus on this goal.

Riding positions for an Engine Company are as follows:

Driver -
Tools: As required
Duties: Drive safely, operate pump, scene lighting, other duties as assigned/needed.

Officer-
Tools: Portable radio, flashlight, Thermal Imager, axe or prying tool.
Duties: Directs apparatus placement, initial size up and attack mode (See SOG 4-01), initial Incident Commander if required, supervises fire attack, hose line advancement & monitors conditions, makes periodic reports concerning conditions and needs to Command.

Nozzle-
Tools: Appropriate size attack line & nozzle, portable radio (if extra is available)
Duties: In conjunction with the officer, selects appropriate size attack line, stretches first length and nozzle, flakes out line to facilitate rapid advancement, bleeds air from line and assures proper stream pattern before entry, confine and extinguish fire.

Lineman-
Tools: Portable radio, flashlight, flat head axe & Halligan tool
Duties: Stretch attack line (flake out and remove kinks), forcible entry, support Nozzle FF by absorbing nozzle reaction, hoseline advancement.

Hydrant-
Tools: Portable radio, flashlight, hydrant adapter & wrenches, 6’ hook (after completing hydrant duties)
Duties: Pull supply line and connect to hydrant, charge hydrant when ordered by Driver or Officer, bring 6’ hook or pike pole to fire building, assist with advancement of attack line.

Door-
Note: This position applies to Engine 72-1 with full staffing ONLY
Tools: Split up irons (Halligan & Axe or TNT) with Lineman, flashlight, portable radio (if avail.)
Duties: Forcible entry if needed, assist with stretching attack line (flake out and remove kinks), ensure hoseline advancement.

Support Company Operations:
Support Company functions include: Laddering, Overhaul, Ventilation, Forcible Entry, Search & Rescue and Salvage. With full apparatus staffing (5 or 6 members), a Support Company may be split into two teams to cover high priority fireground tasks simultaneously: An “Inside Team” (to perform forcible entry, search & rescue and opening up walls & ceilings for extension checks and overhaul) and an “Outside Team” (to place ground ladders, horizontal and/or vertical ventilation, utility control and VES operations when needed.) Accountability for a split crew REQUIRES that all members remain with their assigned team.

The teams will be composed of the following members-
Inside Team: Officer, Irons, Hook
Outside Team: Driver, Outside Vent, Roof (Engine 72-1 only)

With less than full staffing (4 or 3 members), the crew CANNOT be split and must perform support functions sequentially according to the Incident Commander’s priorities.

Riding positions for a Support Company are as follows:

Officer-
Tools: Portable radio, flashlight, Thermal Imager, axe or prying tool.
Duties: Directs apparatus placement, member of “Inside Team”, supervises search and acts as Oriented Man, support Attack crew as needed, makes periodic reports concerning conditions and needs to Command.

Irons-
Tools: Halligan tool with flathead axe or TNT tool, flashlight, portable radio (if avail.)
Duties: Forcible entry if needed, Member of “Inside Team”: Assist with search and support of Attack crew.

Hook-
Tools: Portable radio, flashlight, 6 foot hook or pike pole, PW extinguisher (water can)
Duties: Member of “Inside Team”. Assist with forcible entry, search and support of Attack crew.

Driver -
Tools: As required
Duties: Drive safely, supervise “Outside Team”, perform ventilation as directed by Command, place ground ladders, scene lighting, other duties as assigned/needed.

Outside Vent (OV)-
Tools: Portable radio, flashlight, 6 foot (or longer) hook or pike pole, pickhead axe
Duties: Member of “Outside Team”, perform ventilation as directed by Command, place ground ladders, scene lighting, other duties as assigned/needed.

Roof-
(Note: This position applies to Engine 72-1 only)-
Tools: Ladders, Saw, Axe, etc.
Duties: Member of “Outside Team”. Assess roof conditions, assist OV & Driver with ventilation, VES, etc.

Additional Information:
Seats should be filled as members board the apparatus. Seniority and experience will be factors in filling positions. The Officer in charge of the apparatus shall have ultimate authority in which members are assigned to each position.

Members shall be responsible for reviewing the placard for their seat if not familiar with the tools and duties required. All members shall be accountable for carrying the proper tools and fulfilling the duties of their position.

[Picc.93Truck]

Wow, good quality post above me, Thanks for the information.

As for my company
Truck Company
-Driver
-Officer
-Can Man
-Force Entry Man
-Roof Man
-Outside Vent
-Relief/Extra Man
-Relief/Extra Man

6 man cab with (2) Jumpseats making a total of 8 possible men on the cab. we have trouble with this cab often and are looking into a 10 man cab.

[Brick3633]

The dept I'm on is a combination dept...the duty crew (crew of 3 24hr shift) operates out of one specified rescue pumper...captain always rides "captain seat" (front passenger) engineer would of course drive, and then passenger rear forward facing seat is designated for the firefighter on shift.

for our part-time staff with part-time calls, its usually however the truck fills up..we always use the front passenger seat as the "captain seat" and try to leave that for a captain that may show..or the firefighter with most seniority that shows up..

depending on what truck we are in and what we are going to will depend on our response off the truck..usually for a mutual aid fire, someone grabs the TIC, someone grabs a flashlight, and 2 others from the rear grab pikes ..if we have that many to work with..

on our "in city" fires..first out truck would be the "duty truck, rescue pumper" then our part -time staff will man the second out truck, ladder..then 3rd out would be our pumper/tanker, 4th and 5th, if they fill, would be reserve pumpers

once on scene for "in city fires", the ladder truck is to lay supply line into the duty pumper and the other trucks that show will just stage (we have hydrant supply in the city)

[76Truck]

We run ABCD on the engines and truck, although the truck does not have a first line side or a plug side. just right and left.

A - Captain
B - First Line (right side)
C - Plugs (Left Side)
D - Chauffer

[JohnVBFD]

once on scene for "in city fires", the ladder truck is to lay supply line into the duty pumper and the other trucks that show will just stage (we have hydrant supply in the city)

Wow.....wouldn't it be easier to just take another engine to the fire?

[LaFireEducator]

Our variation as to training and experience levels makes task/seat assignments impractical.

Tasks are assigned to the crew of the first arriving engine by the officer or senior firefighter based on both need and experience/training levels.

As a general rule, all other trucks are not assigned tasks upon arrival, with the exception of operating as tankers. Their crews generally report to staging and are assigned from there.

[FyredUp]

Our variation as to training and experience levels makes task/seat assignments impractical.

Tasks are assigned to the crew of the first arriving engine by the officer or senior firefighter based on both need and experience/training levels.

As a general rule, all other trucks are not assigned tasks upon arrival, with the exception of operating as tankers. Their crews generally report to staging and are assigned from there.

AND if you trained EVERYONE to the same level you wouldn't have to play musical chairs with assignments. It really is that simple.

[LaFireEducator]

AND if you trained EVERYONE to the same level you wouldn't have to play musical chairs with assignments. It really is that simple.

Incorrect sir.

We actually do train everyone to the same basic level, which is our probationary skills checklist.

There are those volunteers that choose to exceed that level, and we also have those that due to the fact that they are career firefighters elsewhere have opportunities through their career department to exceed that level as well.

The issue becomes what do you do with volunteer members who are in the the training process? Do they ride or do they wait until their basic training is completed? We choose to allow members who are in the process to ride, which creates the issue I was referring to in my post. It's my department's belief that allowing them to ride and operate on the fireground, and gain limited experience, while they are training is more beneficial than having them watch from the sidelines until the training is complete. Because of that, we do end up with, on occasion, a mixed training level in the trucks.

My previous VFD took a different road and you were not allowed to ride until you completed the 60-hour basic skills class, which lasted about 2 months and ran 3 times a year. because of that, it often took 5-6 months before a new member could ride (assuming they passed the basic skills class), and that waiting period did cause some potentially good members to leave. On the plus side, when they were allowed to ride, we knew that they had all the basic skills that we required, however, they had no "real" fireground experience.

But to say that we do not have minimum skill requirements is simply not true, and you know it.

[Rescue101]

AND if you followed what Brother Fyred was saying,if EVERYONE trained to the level,they would KNOW the assignement task. Here, you don't ride as a uncertified member UNLESS there is no one else to fill the seat. Out of town calls,ALL seats will be Certified FF's. So are you a 98%er or a 2%er? T.C.

[Eng34FF]

Does your company have riding positions on your apparatus? Do you have predetermined positions for each truck in your department? What are they for the engine and truck or rescue and what do they do?

My current department doesn't assign duties based on riding positions. We deteremine that based on who and how many are in the back and the nature of the call.

My previous department had pre-determined assignments base on riding position. I never really saw them used as we rarely had a full crew and people avoided the seats that they didn't want (mostly layout).

[FyredUp]

AND if you followed what Brother Fyred was saying,if EVERYONE trained to the level,they would KNOW the assignement task. Here, you don't ride as a uncertified member UNLESS there is no one else to fill the seat. Out of town calls,ALL seats will be Certified FF's. So are you a 98%er or a 2%er? T.C.

The only time we allow firefighters that have not completed training to ride out on the first or second out engines is if we can't fill the rig with trained firefighters. To me it is beyond pointless, all the way to dangerous, to operate any other way.

[LaFireEducator]

The only time we allow firefighters that have not completed training to ride out on the first or second out engines is if we can't fill the rig with trained firefighters. To me it is beyond pointless, all the way to dangerous, to operate any other way.

Given that we have 15 seats for a structure fire (Engine, Rescue & Light Rescue) and 17 for a brush fire (add the Brush Truck) at our Central Station, and that most of our response is volunteer POV direct, with the exception of apparatus drivers to the volunteer stations, having seats available is not an issue.

[mikeyboy411]

This is the PDA I put together some time ago... It has worked well for us.

The only adjustment I am going to make is my Engineer's 1st responsibility will be to immobilize the vehicle (primary immobilization) and then secure the battery.

The nice thing about how I organized it is that it uses colors, is (1) piece of paper that can be folded in half/laminated and then placed on a ring by punching a hole in the corner.

Not guaranteeing this will work for all, but it works for us.