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  1. #21
    Forum Member Trkco1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    No they aren't. But if that is your reality then it does no good to wish for a man truck. It makes more sense to look at what you have and figure out how to be selective in tactics AND equipment to accomplish the most important tasks first.

    I ride on a quint, we are normally staffed with 3 and cross staff with a med unit with 2. Guess how often we ride out with 5?
    The guy asked for must haves, manpower is at the top of my list. You mention the term "Selective Tactics", just because it's reality it's something that can be rectified. Between S&R, ventilation, laddering/secondary egress and controling of utilities, things that you would hopefully agree that should take place early at every structure fire, a 3 man crew just isn't enough to perform in the initial stages of a job.

    That being said, as far as tools,

    Roof hook w/ pry end married with a halligan
    Hydra Ram
    2 saws one for wood, one for metal
    10 or 12 lb sledge married with a halligan
    Tools to remove the door lock cylinders at commerical buildings

    These are beyond the obvious, TIC, Irons, Hand lights ect.
    FTM-PTB-EGH-RFB-KTF


  2. #22
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    to add to my post before.

    I am not a huge fan of all the speciality tools that fill the catalogs. Just give me a well maintained compliment of basic tools and people that are good at using them.

    Sure a rabbit tool is great to have and has its uses. However I dont consider it to be a must have item. Same with a sheet rock tool. Sure it is great at pulling sheet rock, however it sucks on plaster and lath.

    I would much rather have a guy that is great at using a set of irons, instead of a rabbit tool. I would much rather carry a plain old pike pole and have the skill in using it.

    To me you can carry all the tools in the world. It is the skill and craftmanship of the men and women on the truck that make all the difference in the world.

  3. #23
    Forum Member TillamanTrk1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trkco1 View Post
    The guy asked for must haves, manpower is at the top of my list. You mention the term "Selective Tactics", just because it's reality it's something that can be rectified. Between S&R, ventilation, laddering/secondary egress and controling of utilities, things that you would hopefully agree that should take place early at every structure fire, a 3 man crew just isn't enough to perform in the initial stages of a job.

    That being said, as far as tools,

    Roof hook w/ pry end married with a halligan
    Hydra Ram
    2 saws one for wood, one for metal
    10 or 12 lb sledge married with a halligan
    Tools to remove the door lock cylinders at commerical buildings

    These are beyond the obvious, TIC, Irons, Hand lights ect.
    i ride on a truck co every shift.. A tiller truck co. 99.9% of the time we ride 3. Never have we NOT had enough. Now would i like to have a couple more guys. YES!!! but don't say 3 can't get it done. From ventilation to extrication we make it happen.. with 3.
    "....train as if your life depends on it, because one day it could.."
    .....Leather Head N6A
    Tillerman..... The best job in the FD!!!

  4. #24
    Forum Member Trkco1's Avatar
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    Never said it couldn't be done with three. We run three minimium, my point is that the fourth makes things that much easier. Isn't that what a tool is? Something to make your job easier.
    Last edited by Trkco1; 03-18-2011 at 12:07 AM.
    FTM-PTB-EGH-RFB-KTF

  5. #25
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trkco1 View Post
    Never said it couldn't be done with three, two or one. We run three minimium, my point is that the fourth makes things that much easier. Isn't that what a tool is? Something to make your job easier.

    NO, staffing is not a tool. Although I have worked with some guys that were tools. The serious point here is you can all day wish for that 4th guy and if the city is NOT going to give it to you, but they will buy you some additional tools to make the job more efficient with 3 guys then you get the tools to make the job more efficient.

    I believe that you have to look at your response area and buy the tools that work best there. There is no standard compliment of tools that works best everywhere.
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

  6. #26
    Forum Member TillamanTrk1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trkco1 View Post
    Never said it couldn't be done with three. We run three minimium, my point is that the fourth makes things that much easier. Isn't that what a tool is? Something to make your job easier.
    I do agree that the 4th guy (or even 5th) would make things easier.. Or just all around better!
    "....train as if your life depends on it, because one day it could.."
    .....Leather Head N6A
    Tillerman..... The best job in the FD!!!

  7. #27
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    The rabbit tool or hydra ram is definitely dependent on the area you run. Yea, you can force doors with conventional forcible entry tools, but if you are going down the hall of an apartment building forcing many doors its quicker to use the hydraulic tools.

  8. #28
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I agree with 2 saws, although my selection would be different.

    I like the rotary saw for metal of concrete. For venting a wood frame roof I prefer a carbide tipped chain saw. Further I prefer it NOT to have the depth gauge chain guard. I think if you are venting a roof and you can't tell the difference between decking and rafters or trusses, it is time to head back to rookie school and be retrained.

    But like everything else in the fire service to each his own...

    Stihl use to have a great deal on saws for the fire service. We got a rotary saw and a chain saw, both set up for the fire service, from a Stihl dealer for less than the rotary saw from a fire equipment dealer.
    TWO saws? Nah, I think that will be 4 Saws,18 hooks in various configuratons, couple denver tools,Lockbreakers,Door Storm,Various axes, Good selection of ground ladders, Ropes, Rit gear,Gas meters,salvage gear,straight crowbars,bottle jacks,dung forks,masonry pick,chimney gear,plumbers snake. T.c.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 03-18-2011 at 09:36 PM.

  9. #29
    Forum Member len1582's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFD21C View Post
    to add to my post before.

    I am not a huge fan of all the speciality tools that fill the catalogs. Just give me a well maintained compliment of basic tools and people that are good at using them.

    Sure a rabbit tool is great to have and has its uses. However I dont consider it to be a must have item. Same with a sheet rock tool. Sure it is great at pulling sheet rock, however it sucks on plaster and lath.

    I would much rather have a guy that is great at using a set of irons, instead of a rabbit tool. I would much rather carry a plain old pike pole and have the skill in using it.

    To me you can carry all the tools in the world. It is the skill and craftmanship of the men and women on the truck that make all the difference in the world.
    I agree about "speciality" tools. Some are just expensive crap. Others like the rabbit tool definately make life easier. If you don't have a need for one in your area that's fine, but it's very useful by me.

    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    The rabbit tool or hydra ram is definitely dependent on the area you run. Yea, you can force doors with conventional forcible entry tools, but if you are going down the hall of an apartment building forcing many doors its quicker to use the hydraulic tools.
    ...or high rise. Agreed.

  10. #30
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    TWO saws? Nah, I think that will be 4 Saws,18 hooks in various configuratons, couple denver tools,Lockbreakers,Door Storm,Various axes, Good selection of ground ladders, Ropes, Rit gear,Gas meters,salvage gear,straight crowbars,bottle jacks,dung forks,masonry pick,chimney gear,plumbers snake. T.c.
    Obviously, I somehow offended you with my 2 saws comment.

    No matter...Have a nice day!
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

  11. #31
    Forum Member TillamanTrk1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    TWO saws? Nah, I think that will be 4 Saws,18 hooks in various configuratons, couple denver tools,Lockbreakers,Door Storm,Various axes, Good selection of ground ladders, Ropes, Rit gear,Gas meters,salvage gear,straight crowbars,bottle jacks,dung forks,masonry pick,chimney gear,plumbers snake. T.c.
    haha.. you must have LARGE trucks
    "....train as if your life depends on it, because one day it could.."
    .....Leather Head N6A
    Tillerman..... The best job in the FD!!!

  12. #32
    Forum Member NY911Bowhunter's Avatar
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    I agree wholeheaertedly with 2 saws...one metal, one wood...but i prefer the Cutter's Edge saw for standard roof work.
    FTM - BTB - KTF

  13. #33
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Personally, one of the most useless tools I have ever used is the Hux bar. PLEASE do not waste any money buying that.
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

  14. #34
    Forum Member TillamanTrk1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Personally, one of the most useless tools I have ever used is the Hux bar. PLEASE do not waste any money buying that.
    haha its funny you say that, because we have one in our wide variety of tools and out of the 3 years ive been on this truck, we have NEVER used it.. haha
    "....train as if your life depends on it, because one day it could.."
    .....Leather Head N6A
    Tillerman..... The best job in the FD!!!

  15. #35
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomasldixon33 View Post
    haha its funny you say that, because we have one in our wide variety of tools and out of the 3 years ive been on this truck, we have NEVER used it.. haha
    We had them on all the ladder trucks and when 2 of the ladders went and were replaced with quints they made the move to the quints. So we still have them on any apparatus with an aerial ladder.

    I have seen it used once to lift a manhole cover...OOOPS, I mean Utility Access Opening cover. I slipped off the PC wagon for a second!!
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

  16. #36
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    Talking

    Chain saws for cutting branches so the truck doesnt get scratched. Rotary saw for venting.

  17. #37
    Forum Member TillamanTrk1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rescuedawg View Post
    Chain saws for cutting branches so the truck doesnt get scratched. Rotary saw for venting.
    hahaha nice..
    "....train as if your life depends on it, because one day it could.."
    .....Leather Head N6A
    Tillerman..... The best job in the FD!!!

  18. #38
    MembersZone Subscriber CKirk922's Avatar
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    This may seem odd, but some form of chimney kit is helpful.
    We ran as a truck to a chimney fire this weekend and it was helpful to have mirrors, dry chem bombs, and chain weights (window weights) to use from the roof to knock the single most clogged chim fire i've ever seen. All this stuff takes up the space of half a rope bag. (The engines carry a kit with an ash pale and scoop.)

    Sounds corny, but it is the small, space conservative things you forget about til you need em...just my 2 cents...
    A coward stands by and watches wrongs committed without saying a word...Any opinions expressed are purely my own and not necessarily reflective of the views of my former departments

  19. #39
    MembersZone Subscriber CKirk922's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by len1582 View Post
    In addition to all the hand tools mentioned a TIC and some sort of door opening tool, like a Rabbit Tool or two.
    I agree with Len, but you may have different forcible entry challenges in your area. Get the forcible tools your guys know and love.
    A coward stands by and watches wrongs committed without saying a word...Any opinions expressed are purely my own and not necessarily reflective of the views of my former departments

  20. #40
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rescuedawg View Post
    Chain saws for cutting branches so the truck doesnt get scratched. Rotary saw for venting.
    Actually, our trucks and quints on my career FD carry 3 saws. A Cutter's Edge Chain saw for veting, a Husqvarna rotary saw, and a Stihl chain saw for cutting up trees.
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

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