1. #1
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    Default williams foam systems

    Anybody spec new apparatus with the Williams foam system in the last few years?
    My question is this: why was a Williams foam system specified instead of the apparatus manufactures/pump manufactures models ( Hale foamlogix, foampro, pierce husky or hercules systems)?

    My department is currently writing specs for a pumper and will be specing a class A system. Just wondering if the Williams system is simply less expensive or is reliability the main reason departments specifically spec this companies system.

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    The thing we liked about it was that you can have foam on every discharge due to it being an around the pump foam system not a direct inject.

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    I can see how that could be an excellant benefit over the other systems.

    Thanks for the reply BC4FD.

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    Not having ever priced a Williams system, and not having a ton of familiarity, I can't offer much comment there, but I can offer this...

    For only class A, I believe you would be just fine with any of the typical injection systems. You will be limited to only discharges that are remote from the main pump body (IE the typical 4 to 6 discharges coming off the maim pump case of a standard pump cannot be manifolded into the foam system). Thats usually ok, as most end users want foam for preconnects and front/rear hosebed/tray applications. You can pipe to the wagon pipe as well on an injection system.

    The limitation of an injection system is the capacity of the foam pump. A Hale 2.1A system is designed for A only applications with a max water flow of 420 GPM at .5% and 210 GPM at 1% whereas a 5.0 system can flow 1000 GPM at .5% and 500 GPM at 1%. If you opt for an injection system you have to know what your water flow requirements will be to properly size your foam system. These flows are cumulative for all discharges tied into the foam system. So, if your expected foam flow at 1% (worst case for A fires) is going to be two 150 GPM handlines and a 250 GPM handline (potentially), then you need a foam system that can supply that, in this case the 5.0 would max out.

    Make sense?

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    I am familier with the Hale Foammaster system, I believe it is the 2.0. If I remember correctly it has a capacity of approx. 700-800 gpm at 0.5%. The class B side gives us 110 gpm at 3% and 55 gpm at 6%. Obviously the B side has very limited capabilities and we used it a couple times for vehicle fires (with obvious fuel spillage) but that was it.
    We did have frequent breakdowns with the Hale system but I'm referencing a unit built in 1999. Are the newer systems more reliable?
    It appears when reading some of the info on the Williams systems they have capabilities of much higher foam flows. Just inquiring from some of the forum members if these systems are worth pursueing or if the other manufacturer/pump systems are NOW more reliable than the older systems.

    Departments are specing Williams systems over the truck/pump manufacturers systems for some reason. Just looking for some input as to the reasoning.

    Thanks

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    My Dept has 3 trucks with WATP systems on them, operating with both Class A & B.

    We've got two more on order, with a different Williams system that places proportioners on each discharge. They haven't been delivered yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MG3610 View Post

    For only class A, I believe you would be just fine with any of the typical injection systems. You will be limited to only discharges that are remote from the main pump body
    Actually, the basic pump from the manufacturers has no standard discharges. Each one must be specced. Every discharge is simply flanged from the main body, including the 2-1/2"s you consider to be standard. In other words, if the builder is willing to do it, an injection system can be plumbed to any single discharge on the pump.

    As to the around the pump system, normally they are considerably cheaper than injection systems because they do not have a separate pump. Also, they are designed to deliver some serious foam. There used to be a separate device you could carry in a compartment that you could connect to a discharge and the suction inlet of any pumper and deliver foam from any outlet. I can't remember exactly who made (or makes) it but it may have been Feecon, or not. But I do remember it was under a grand and was bad a**.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    Actually, the basic pump from the manufacturers has no standard discharges. Each one must be specced. Every discharge is simply flanged from the main body, including the 2-1/2"s you consider to be standard. In other words, if the builder is willing to do it, an injection system can be plumbed to any single discharge on the pump.

    As to the around the pump system, normally they are considerably cheaper than injection systems because they do not have a separate pump. Also, they are designed to deliver some serious foam. There used to be a separate device you could carry in a compartment that you could connect to a discharge and the suction inlet of any pumper and deliver foam from any outlet. I can't remember exactly who made (or makes) it but it may have been Feecon, or not. But I do remember it was under a grand and was bad a**.
    I don' understand what you are saying. A Hale Foamlogix, for example, is plumbed by installing a water discharge manifold with a water flowmeter in it that then splits off to the discharges you desire to have foam capability. The only thing that comes off the foam pump is the line that puts the foam concentrate into the foam discharge manifold. Because this syustwem is installed this way, I see no way it can provide foam to any of the main pump discharges (the pump panel side discharges). Are other systems different???

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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    Actually, the basic pump from the manufacturers has no standard discharges. Each one must be specced. Every discharge is simply flanged from the main body, including the 2-1/2"s you consider to be standard. In other words, if the builder is willing to do it, an injection system can be plumbed to any single discharge on the pump.

    As to the around the pump system, normally they are considerably cheaper than injection systems because they do not have a separate pump. Also, they are designed to deliver some serious foam. There used to be a separate device you could carry in a compartment that you could connect to a discharge and the suction inlet of any pumper and deliver foam from any outlet. I can't remember exactly who made (or makes) it but it may have been Feecon, or not. But I do remember it was under a grand and was bad a**.
    Feecon Foam-midget

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    Quote Originally Posted by MG3610 View Post
    I don' understand what you are saying. A Hale Foamlogix, for example, is plumbed by installing a water discharge manifold with a water flowmeter in it that then splits off to the discharges you desire to have foam capability. The only thing that comes off the foam pump is the line that puts the foam concentrate into the foam discharge manifold. Because this syustwem is installed this way, I see no way it can provide foam to any of the main pump discharges (the pump panel side discharges). Are other systems different???
    Then the manifold can be plumbed to a discharge on the side pump panel. Just because there is a pad on the end of the primary pump casting does not mean it has to have a discharge installed.

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    The one I am familiar with had a 500 gallon foam tank/ 1500 water, plumbed to every discharge even the deck gun. Simple to use, can deliver major foam at any concentration or just through an trash line if you want. Easy to use, easy to clean.

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    One of the gentleman who designs and manufactures these systems for Williams is on our department (Washington Township) in Washington Indiana.

    His shop/factory is located less than a mile from our station. They do monitor nozzles of all sizes (350 gpm to 10,000 plus gpm), eductors, proportioners, valves, large LDH Storz fittings (12"), and other sytems.

    They sell a TON of these systems to industrial outfits and abroad. The around the pump systems are reliable and efficient.

    Higher foam quantities can be reached, coupled with thier nozzles, stream straightened combination turrets that can also educt straight into the nozzle, these systems give an industrial size punch.

    Remember, Williams cut its teeth suppressing refinery fires. These systems are designed to move maximum water mixed with max foam for the heavy hit.
    Last edited by Fireeaterbob; 05-10-2011 at 09:05 PM.
    A coward stands by and watches wrongs committed without saying a word...Any opinions expressed are purely my own and not necessarily reflective of the views of my former departments

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