1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    You want to know what's a slap in the face? The fact that I tried like hell, for over 11 years, to get hired by a major metropolitan fire department, but because I am a white/male/non-vet, I got passed over for minority races because there was a court order that they had to get hired over me. Yeah that's a slap in the face that stings hard, especially given that I moved into and lived in that waste of a City for 8+ years, had a car stolen, gave untold thousands in excessive taxes that I would not have had to given had I not lived there, and potentially gave up on a Firefighting job down south that I could have literally walked into, had I not had delusions of grandeur of getting hired onto a Fire Department where the only thing they care about is how many brothers and hispanics they can shove onto the job through the court order. Yeah, that stings a bit.

    It stings that there has to be a court order. But what stings worse is the fact that every time someone with white skin calls hispanics out on the carpet for something, you have to automatically label us racist. You sound like my Aunt, a devout diehard liberal- every time I complain about President Obama, she pulls the "you racist" card out of her sleeve. I don't care if the man is black, white, green, blue or red with yellow polka dots- HE SUCKS AS A PRESIDENT! It sucks that your race has to battle in court to get more of your kind hired....Why can't you just compete for the jobs like everyone else? Why does FDNY have to "dumb down" their written test? Why can't latinos and blacks and whites and everyone else just take the same ****ing test? Either you can read the damn thing or you can't. Why does FDNY have to "dumb down" their physical agility test because some latino or black or woman couldnt do it? Do we really have to hire dumber, weaker people? Again I dont care if you are black, white, green, blue or red with yellow polka dots, if you can't pass the fooking test then you don't deserve to have the job. Yeah, that's a slap in the face, that hurts real bad. Am I a racist? No, not at all. I hate all minorities that take advantage of the system equally.
    Look you are a racist dude. Straight up, you judge people by their race, you lump them into racial categories. Yeah everytime you call hispanics out as a race about something, we call you racist, because it's ****ing racism. It's judging someone by the color of the skin. White people are still getting hired as firefighters, and if you're gonna bitch about Obama or whatever I'm assuming you're a pretty staunch conservative, personally I don't give a **** about politics either way but I hear you conservatives are big on personal responsibility. Maybe instead of pointing the finger at blacks and hispanics, look in the mirror. Maybe it's not some black dudes fault you didnt get the job. I mean honestly dude there arent a whole lot of black folks or hispanics in fire protection, at least not down here, I walked into the station in my mostly black neighborhood and it's pretty disproportionately white. I dont know man it seems like you're putting the blame entirely on minorities because you couldn't get the job, I think that's a pretty ****ty outlook. And yeah you implied I was less American when you said the Army should be called the Mexican Army because of all the latinos. That's like saying it should be called the German Army because of all the white people in it, obviously patriotic white people would be offended by that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyW View Post
    First of all I'm not a service member yet I'm just enlisting in the future.
    That explains it all. You do not have a clue, and what you think about the military is irrelevant. Until you actually enlist, ship to boot camp, graduate, complete an MOS school, and spend some time in a real military unit, you know absolutely zero about the effects of race and language on unit cohesion and discipline.

    As for FWDBuff, you are young and dumb enough to know nothing about the court orders and racial quotas placed on many large fire depts. He is one of many people who put all they had into becoming a big city firefighter, and came out with nothing, despite scoring highly on the tests. I suggest you do some research on the subject. He has valid reason to be bitter. Start here:

    http://www.boston.com/news/local/art..._cities_towns/

    And I suggest you develop thicker skin-unless you join the Air Force, the other service members will eat you alive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnyv View Post
    That explains it all. You do not have a clue, and what you think about the military is irrelevant. Until you actually enlist, ship to boot camp, graduate, complete an MOS school, and spend some time in a real military unit, you know absolutely zero about the effects of race and language on unit cohesion and discipline.

    As for FWDBuff, you are young and dumb enough to know nothing about the court orders and racial quotas placed on many large fire depts. He is one of many people who put all they had into becoming a big city firefighter, and came out with nothing, despite scoring highly on the tests. I suggest you do some research on the subject. He has valid reason to be bitter. Start here:

    http://www.boston.com/news/local/art..._cities_towns/

    And I suggest you develop thicker skin-unless you join the Air Force, the other service members will eat you alive.
    The fact is, qualified white people still get hired so he has no reason to blame minorities, and even if he did it's not even minority firefighters who enacted the policies in the first place. FWD cant talk about it either, he has no right to criticize service members if he didnt even serve. And I've got pretty thick skin in real life, but this is supposed to be a more professional place, and regardless if someone I didn't know tried telling me I wasn't American or patriotic because of my race I would probably just fight them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyW View Post
    , and regardless if someone I didn't know tried telling me I wasn't American or patriotic because of my race I would probably just fight them.
    Once again, show me specifically where I made these remarks?

    I do not have the right to critize members of the Military about matters concerning the Military. I do have the right to criticize them for speaking spanish, swahili, german, french, polish, ebonics, ferengi, romulan, or whatever else besides ENGLISH, while they are wearing the STARS AND STRIPES and ON UNCLE SAMS DIME.

    If you dont like it, hit the ignore button for me. You wont hurt my feelings at all, I wont see you do it. In fact even if I did see you hit the iggy button for me, I would probably care less.

    Have a pleasant day!
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    Default Here goes...

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyW View Post
    The fact is, qualified white people still get hired so he has no reason to blame minorities, and even if he did it's not even minority firefighters who enacted the policies in the first place. FWD cant talk about it either, he has no right to criticize service members if he didnt even serve. And I've got pretty thick skin in real life, but this is supposed to be a more professional place, and regardless if someone I didn't know tried telling me I wasn't American or patriotic because of my race I would probably just fight them.
    FWD has been in the federal service and knows how the military operates. While he may not have served as a member of the armed forces, he has worked for the DoD for several years and knows first hand what does happen and how it affects the overall morale and unit cohesion. Comparing unit structure and a game of high school football are two completely different things. While your analogy may be correct, the impact it has is far from it.

    While you may be correct (let's assume, of course) in that the minority member did not directly enact a law or policy governing minority hiring quotas, they (or someone on their behalf such as an attorney) indirectly got that law or policy enacted based on either lawsuits or complaints. One thing that EVERYONE who served in the military or for the government knows is that the only reason a specific rule or policy is there is because somebody at one time broke it. The reason that the button labeled EMERGENCY SHUTDOWN or FOAM DUMP DO NOT TOUCH is labeled that way is because someone decided to press that button when they were not suppose to.

    I am going to have to agree with our friends on this board that until you serve in the armed force or even work around the military you are not qualified to be an expert in social matter relating to the military.

    And finally, gunnyv enjoys mocking (in a harmless manner) the Air Force culture. I agree with most of what he says. I am proud to say that I served in the Air Force active duty for six years and am now continuing on my career as a federal civilian firefighter (going on two years now). Even though I was in the Air Force I served on specific missions with both Army and Marines outside the wire. I am fortunate enough to speak Spanish fluently and have seen first hand what that does to a unit. I could name a few example but I'm not going to because it's moot and won't steer your opinion one way or another. Point is that although some posters on a forum may say things that aren't politically correct, it's a forum. Get over it. If you have a serious question that an answer cannot be found anywhere else you are more than welcome to ask and any one that has a valid input will give it to you. That's the point. Don't get all bent about a debate that you are not going to win.

    (/end rant)
    Last edited by ShredddinCali; 04-29-2011 at 06:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShredddinCali View Post
    I am going to have to agree with our friends on this board that until you serve in the armed force or even work around the military you are not qualified to be an expert in social matter relating to the military.

    And finally, gunnyv enjoys mocking (in a harmless manner) the Air Force culture. I agree with most of what he says. I am proud to say that I served in the Air Force active duty for six years and am now continuing on my career as a federal civilian firefighter (going on two years now).
    Thanks for the backup. As always, my comments regarding the other services are made with tongue firmly in cheek. I have worked with everyone else at some point, including in Iraq, where my security was an Army Guard unit. I trusted them with my life, and have nothing but respect for the jobs the other services do. That said, we have earned the right to bust on each other. AnthonyW hasn't earned squat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnyv View Post
    That said, we have earned the right to bust on each other. AnthonyW hasn't earned squat.
    Neither has FWD. The difference is I'm a 17 year old kid in the process of joining up and hes a grown *** man who's never served. And last I saw he was the once criticizing the troops not me.

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    [QUOTE=FWDbuff;1268251]Once again, show me specifically where I made these remarks?

    You implied it when you said the Army wasn't the US Army because of all the mexicans serving.
    I do not have the right to critize members of the Military about matters concerning the Military. I do have the right to criticize them for speaking spanish, swahili, german, french, polish, ebonics, ferengi, romulan, or whatever else besides ENGLISH, while they are wearing the STARS AND STRIPES and ON UNCLE SAMS DIME.
    Really. So once I'm in I cant speak spanish at my puerto rican abuelas house? Should I not take a community college class on spanish or another language because I'm wearing the stars and stripes?
    If you dont like it, hit the ignore button for me. You wont hurt my feelings at all, I wont see you do it. In fact even if I did see you hit the iggy button for me, I would probably care less.
    I dont really care man but you seem to take out a lot of your frustration on minorities to the point where its like a scapegoat for you.

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    Dude, get over yourself. You are only 17 years old, you've barely broken enough peach fuzz through your face to wear out a training razor. Close your piehole, sign on the dotted line, and do your four years. Then again, don't enlist. There are plenty of cities that still have minority hiring clauses still in effect. Courts recently ruled against a class-action lawsuit brought against the City of Philadelphia in an attempt to repeal the minority hiring clause. Now they are talking about dumbing down the test there. Courts in New York City recently ruled that the test there had to be dumbed down, as "minorities could not pass it." So it would seem you have a decent chance in New York, too. Camden NJ- another city plagued with mandatory minority hiring regulations. Get out, get hired, and do 10 years as a firefighter, and then maybe you'll be able to have an intellegent conversation with me.

    I dont judge a man by the color of his skin, I judge a man by the way he pulls a deuce and a half down a hallway along side of me, I judge him by his courage and willingness to get the job done in an efficient and orderly manner. I judge him/them by they way we work together in the firehouse. by the way never, ever had any of the 3 portugese guys I worked with break out into a conversation in Portugese. Or the handfull of Italians I worked with...Nope, never, not once. I have worked alongside some outstanding firefighters who were non-caucasians. I have a boatload of friends who are Philly Cops and Firemen. But the difference between they and you, is that they understand the difference between a minority and a non-caucasian. Minorities are the ones who constantly cry racism every time "the man" downs them. They are the ones who moan and pizz about "the man" and "the system" being against them. The guys I speak of are the ones who shake their heads whenever people of their race like you open their mouths.....The guys of your race who get embarassed, the ones who took the tests, passed the tests, earned the job and proved themselves worthy of being called a FIREFIGHTER. The ones who have RED blood. Just like me, just like everyone else I have ever served with in the 10 years I faithfully served these United States before I had to get out due to a back injury.

    You claim to be proud of your heritage. That's great, I applaud you for that. I am Armenian and German. But never, not once, have I ever had the sudden urge to start a conversation with someone in Armenian while I was on duty, wearing the Stars and Stripes, while on Uncle Sam's official timeclock. Call me silly, I kind of thought that it was just a little tacky. And don't hand me that schit about I implied you couldn't speak your language at your home. What you do on your own time in your own home is your business and you g'damn well know it is.

    Do yourself a favor, google FDNY Minority Hiring, or Philadelphia Fire Department Minority Hiring. Call the City of Philadelphia Department of Personnel, and ask them why the last scheduled test had to be cancelled and re-scheduled? No, wait better yet I'll just give you the answer: Because the Vialiants (a "social" group of black firefighters) forged so many applications that they had to be thrown out.

    I would call you pathetic, but you are only 17- you just dont know any better. Do me a favor, next time you want to call me a racist, look in the mirror first.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Wow, according to the 2001 census data, I, being a non-hispanic causasian, am a minority in California. Maybe I can get hiring preference at LAFD or CALFIRE?

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    Interesting how a question about military classification turned into a diatribe on the perceived social ills of the American Military. It's a good thing this isn't a public forum where anyone can see the racist rants. Oh wait, it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Dude, get over yourself. You are only 17 years old, you've barely broken enough peach fuzz through your face to wear out a training razor. Close your piehole, sign on the dotted line, and do your four years. Then again, don't enlist. There are plenty of cities that still have minority hiring clauses still in effect. Courts recently ruled against a class-action lawsuit brought against the City of Philadelphia in an attempt to repeal the minority hiring clause. Now they are talking about dumbing down the test there. Courts in New York City recently ruled that the test there had to be dumbed down, as "minorities could not pass it." So it would seem you have a decent chance in New York, too. Camden NJ- another city plagued with mandatory minority hiring regulations. Get out, get hired, and do 10 years as a firefighter, and then maybe you'll be able to have an intellegent conversation with me.

    I dont judge a man by the color of his skin, I judge a man by the way he pulls a deuce and a half down a hallway along side of me, I judge him by his courage and willingness to get the job done in an efficient and orderly manner. I judge him/them by they way we work together in the firehouse. by the way never, ever had any of the 3 portugese guys I worked with break out into a conversation in Portugese. Or the handfull of Italians I worked with...Nope, never, not once. I have worked alongside some outstanding firefighters who were non-caucasians. I have a boatload of friends who are Philly Cops and Firemen. But the difference between they and you, is that they understand the difference between a minority and a non-caucasian. Minorities are the ones who constantly cry racism every time "the man" downs them. They are the ones who moan and pizz about "the man" and "the system" being against them. The guys I speak of are the ones who shake their heads whenever people of their race like you open their mouths.....The guys of your race who get embarassed, the ones who took the tests, passed the tests, earned the job and proved themselves worthy of being called a FIREFIGHTER. The ones who have RED blood. Just like me, just like everyone else I have ever served with in the 10 years I faithfully served these United States before I had to get out due to a back injury

    You claim to be proud of your heritage. That's great, I applaud you for that. I am Armenian and German. But never, not once, have I ever had the sudden urge to start a conversation with someone in Armenian while I was on duty, wearing the Stars and Stripes, while on Uncle Sam's official timeclock. Call me silly, I kind of thought that it was just a little tacky. And don't hand me that schit about I implied you couldn't speak your language at your home. What you do on your own time in your own home is your business and you g'damn well know it is.

    Do yourself a favor, google FDNY Minority Hiring, or Philadelphia Fire Department Minority Hiring. Call the City of Philadelphia Department of Personnel, and ask them why the last scheduled test had to be cancelled and re-scheduled? No, wait better yet I'll just give you the answer: Because the Vialiants (a "social" group of black firefighters) forged so many applications that they had to be thrown out.
    Well I want to serve my country in the military before I try to be a firefighter. I don't need affirmative action to be a firefighter, I'm smart enough and in good enough shape to get the job without any leg up. The thing I hate about affirmative action is that it gives racist people more ammunition to doubt us and they look at a black firefighter and say "He didn't earn the job he got it because of affirmative action" even though they don't know **** about him. But you're wrong about how I think the "man" is holding me down the two things my dad (who served in the army in the Gulf War) always told me about race were to never let anyone disrespect me because of my race and be racist to me, and to never use my race as an excuse to not achieve something in my life.

    But never, not once, have I ever had the sudden urge to start a conversation with someone in Armenian while I was on duty, wearing the Stars and Stripes, while on Uncle Sam's official timeclock.
    If you did though, I would have no right to criticize you because I'm not a firefighter and have never been a firefighter so I have no right at all to tell you how to do your job.

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    Did I forget to mention that you can only be a True Military Firefighter in one branch of the service? And that is the USAF!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firedawg89 View Post
    Did I forget to mention that you can only be a True Military Firefighter in one branch of the service? And that is the USAF!
    define "true military firefighter"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firedawg89 View Post
    Did I forget to mention that you can only be a True Military Firefighter in one branch of the service? And that is the USAF!
    If I claim that the Air Force is not a True Military Service, can you convince me otherwise?

    And, pray tell, explain how one who is a member of a military service, whose primary function is to fight fires, and is trained and equipped to do so, does not qualify to be a "true" military firefighter?

    Army FF: I'm a trained firefighter in the Army, but mostly I count ordnance and ride in convoys. I deploy for 12-15 months in the combat zone.

    Navy: I'm in the Navy, and we're all trained to fight fires. Some lucky guys get to sit on the deck of the carriers and watch the planes take off and land. The rest of us chip paint. My ship deploys for 6-8 months at sea.

    Marine FF: I'm a Marine. My MOS is ARFF, but we do what we need to do to ensure the pilots who support our infantry are taken care of. I deploy for 7 months in the combat zone.

    Air Force FF: I'm a FireDawg. I work at the base FD with the civilian firefighters. Sometimes the Air Force makes me do military stuff. If I wanted to do that I would have joined the Army. They even make us go overseas for 4 months at a time, and sometimes the cable and internet go out. How can they expect us to operate under such conditions. WOOF WOOF!
    Last edited by gunnyv; 04-30-2011 at 07:14 PM. Reason: more info

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firedawg89 View Post
    Did I forget to mention that you can only be a True Military Firefighter in one branch of the service? And that is the USAF!
    Ahhhhh another zoomie who thinks he is the second coming of christ......
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    Default Silly Zoomie, firefighting is for men.

    Quote Originally Posted by gunnyv View Post
    Air Force FF: I'm a FireDawg. I work at the base FD with the civilian firefighters. Sometimes the Air Force makes me do military stuff. If I wanted to do that I would have joined the Army. They even make us go overseas for 4 months at a time, and sometimes the cable and internet go out. How can they expect us to operate under such conditions. WOOF WOOF!
    Once worked with a USAF FF who was assigned to us TDY for "observation" or some other BS like that....I had the knob, he was riding the backup position on the engine one night, we get punched out with the local vollies......Pull up, ordered to stretch an additional line and go in service second floor of a house, fire roaring out of the windows of two rooms and the attic......His face is white as a ghost....We stretch the line to the front door, I kneel down to put my mask on and he just stands there looking at me....I say "Well, are you going to put your mask on?" He says "You want me to go in there?" I said "How else we gonna put it out?"

    He says "Can't we just squirt it from the outside?"

    Yeah. True Military FF.



    disclaimer: not all USAF guys are like this, but this guy sure didn't help the "sissy" reputation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyW View Post
    Well I want to serve my country in the military before I try to be a firefighter. I don't need affirmative action to be a firefighter, I'm smart enough and in good enough shape to get the job without any leg up.
    Ok, look, we've beat this thing to death. I am sorry for offending you, I have my opinion based on my life's experiences, I can't change them.

    I thank you for wanting to serve our country, and I wish you well. And when you get out, I wish you the best in finding a good, decent firefighting job in a community that values you and cares about you. I am glad that you feel you are good enough not to need affirmative action. You take care kid. And if you do enlist, come in here once in a while and let us know how you're doing.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnyv View Post
    If I claim that the Air Force is not a True Military Service, can you convince me otherwise?

    And, pray tell, explain how one who is a member of a military service, whose primary function is to fight fires, and is trained and equipped to do so, does not qualify to be a "true" military firefighter?

    Army FF: I'm a trained firefighter in the Army, but mostly I count ordnance and ride in convoys. I deploy for 12-15 months in the combat zone.

    Navy: I'm in the Navy, and we're all trained to fight fires. Some lucky guys get to sit on the deck of the carriers and watch the planes take off and land. The rest of us chip paint. My ship deploys for 6-8 months at sea.

    Marine FF: I'm a Marine. My MOS is ARFF, but we do what we need to do to ensure the pilots who support our infantry are taken care of. I deploy for 7 months in the combat zone.

    Air Force FF: I'm a FireDawg. I work at the base FD with the civilian firefighters. Sometimes the Air Force makes me do military stuff. If I wanted to do that I would have joined the Army. They even make us go overseas for 4 months at a time, and sometimes the cable and internet go out. How can they expect us to operate under such conditions. WOOF WOOF!
    wow, i am pretty sure you got that nail hit on the head. kudos

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Once worked with a USAF FF who was assigned to us TDY for "observation" or some other BS like that....I had the knob, he was riding the backup position on the engine one night, we get punched out with the local vollies......Pull up, ordered to stretch an additional line and go in service second floor of a house, fire roaring out of the windows of two rooms and the attic......His face is white as a ghost....We stretch the line to the front door, I kneel down to put my mask on and he just stands there looking at me....I say "Well, are you going to put your mask on?" He says "You want me to go in there?" I said "How else we gonna put it out?"

    He says "Can't we just squirt it from the outside?"

    Yeah. True Military FF.



    disclaimer: not all USAF guys are like this, but this guy sure didn't help the "sissy" reputation.
    hell, this thread has been hijacked in so many different directions so far, here's my usaf ff story:

    when i was stationed at unnamed base while i was still a senior airman, i was driving the engine company that day. my captain... or crew chief, rather, was a TSgt who had been in the fire service for 2.5 years as he was a cross-trainee from aircraft maint or AGE. anyways, we get called out for mutual aid with the city dept on a medium sized burning barn (fully engulfed, no life safety hazards). when i pull up to the icp, he jumps off the engine, full pack and mask and starts excitedly asking for assignment from the ic the two gibs do the same and i could only :facepalm: out of embarrassment. with the lack of experience we air force "true military firefighters" have, sometimes it shows to outside departments. dont get me wrong, we can kick the @$$ out of an ORI or UCI inspection, but when it comes time to respond to the "big one" (which there will only be one of at a time), we need to get our head out and start using it.

    the kicker is this, while we were responding, i noticed him putting on his mask and respectfully mentioned that we aren't first arrival (it was clear that we were being called in for manpower) and there isn't life safety so he could probably hold off with the mask. he proceeded to rip me a new poop hole when returning to the station. that was one of those times where i just kept my mouth shut and took it.

    there really isn't a point to drive home with this story, i just thought i would share.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyW View Post
    Neither has FWD. The difference is I'm a 17 year old kid in the process of joining up and hes a grown *** man who's never served. And last I saw he was the once criticizing the troops not me.
    There can't be too many Anthony W's in the system right now. You might want to be careful with how you talk on the forums right now. Due to budget constraints, the USAF and US Army will need to start cutting down on enlistments real soon, and if you want to get yourself a clearance, the internet can be searched during the back ground process.

    You have not experianced life enough to have any creadability on the things you have commented on. It is ok to have your opinions, but you should keep them to yourself for a while. Personal opinio is that you are totally off the maek on your comments as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnyv View Post
    Beat me to it. Give him a break, everyone makes mistakes now and again. Besides, about the only thing that keeps the Army and Air Force somewhat military is the presence of all those prior service Marines.
    I will bite. If in the Air Force, why would you want to be military?

    (Why do I need to check out a backhoe? Because the CO told me to teach the unit how to dig foxholes!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyW View Post
    Basically what FWD is trying to say is join the Air Force or Marines because there are more white people there.
    I've got some puerto rican blood, I speak spanish, and **** you for trying to say that that makes me less of an American. I love how you get offended by a private conversation in Spanish, like its any of your business or theres something wrong with speaking spanish. I'm willing to put my life on the line for this country, and calling it "the Mexican Army" because you dont think its white enough is a slap in the face to every latino person who serves.
    Go piass up a rope.

    It is a matter of life safety to me ( along with some of the other items mentioned)

    If you are a member of MY team, then you damn well need to have english as your primary language. If you see a hazard, or I see a hazard, we better be communicating - not trying to figure out what the hell the other is talking about.

    If you are chewing out a troop in another language, then English is NOT your primary language.

    Regardless of what you may think, with your many years of life experience, not everyone is throwing down a race card. Perhaps you should not throw one down yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Maybe they actually want to see what it's like to have to work for a living, rather than bitch that the air conditioning in the day room is broken and that the la-z-boy has a broken spring.
    You say that like it is a bad thing...LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    You say that like it is a bad thing...LOL
    No, not at all....Considering the USAF is a glorified branch of the Boy Scouts.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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