Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber rmoore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1998
    Location
    Plano, Texas
    Posts
    808

    Default Boron B-Pillar Cross Sections

    At FDIC 2011, the Champion Rescue Tool company had an interesting display table in their booth area. Situated on a metal display table was a large collection of cut sections of new vehicle A-pillar and B-pillars. I had the opportunity to photograph several of them.

    As you look at these images, remember that most likely, your cutter would gather and compress the pillar together and then stall out as it attempts to cut through the layers and thicknesses of these pillars.

    If for example, you have a three-layer hollow shaped B-pillar, your cutter will probably have to actually cut through six layers of steel because it gathered, crushed, and compressed the layers of the once hollow pillar together as the blades closed. No wonder our older generation cutters are having problems with these advanced steels. Take a look...
    Attached Images Attached Images   


  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber rmoore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1998
    Location
    Plano, Texas
    Posts
    808

    Default

    More cross section pillars from the Champion Rescue Tool company display. Note the rebar steel inside the bottom pillar; a Subaru Forester B-pillar section.
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Last edited by rmoore; 03-29-2011 at 10:45 PM.

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber rmoore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1998
    Location
    Plano, Texas
    Posts
    808

    Default

    Another cross section pillar from the Champion Rescue Tool company display. The inner hollow tube pipe is Boron as well.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  4. #4
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    3

    Thumbs up Future Challenges

    Ron,

    Thanks for these photos. I see Tom from Champion several times a year in California and he always has these sections of metal he brings for the students and instructors to show the types of layered metals we AND OUR TOOLS are up against. Particularly the multiple layers of "Hard Car" exotic metals so many more manufacturers are using like this now.

    By the way, it was good to see you again and work with you and your team in San Diego. I appreciate you all accepting my input and participation with your superb program.

    See you next time.

    Jordan

  5. #5
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Add to this the fact that anything boron doesn't really "cut"per se,it "breaks"(like any hardened steel)but ONLY after having a LOT of pressure applied to it. Now your regular saw blades "burn up"while cutting. So now you're back to CHOICES: Make a stronger,thicker Cutter blades(and the inherent hazards)OR develop a 'Cip saw blade that will cut Boron. For ME,I'd like to see BOTH. And to some extent I have Both.What the Future holds though, promises to make our lives( as rescuers)CHALLENGING to say the least. T.C.

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber rmoore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1998
    Location
    Plano, Texas
    Posts
    808

    Default

    Providing an interesting B-pillar cross section for your review. This pillar is from a Subaru Forester and was not one in the Champion booth at FDIC. This is just a training prop that I use in my training programs.

    I sliced partially through it with a recip saw and folded it over so you can clearly see the multiple layers of the pillar AND the rebar section inside the hollow of the pillar. This is NOT Boron steel. It is the philosophy of 'more steel' to beef up the side impact crash ratings of their vehicle.

    SUBARU FORESTER-
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    405

    Default

    I also stopped in with Champion, I particularly like the tether system on the blades and the work they have put in with Volvo

  8. #8
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    39

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by rmoore View Post
    At FDIC 2011, the Champion Rescue Tool company had an interesting display table in their booth area. Situated on a metal display table was a large collection of cut sections of new vehicle A-pillar and B-pillars. I had the opportunity to photograph several of them.

    As you look at these images, remember that most likely, your cutter would gather and compress the pillar together and then stall out as it attempts to cut through the layers and thicknesses of these pillars.

    If for example, you have a three-layer hollow shaped B-pillar, your cutter will probably have to actually cut through six layers of steel because it gathered, crushed, and compressed the layers of the once hollow pillar together as the blades closed. No wonder our older generation cutters are having problems with these advanced steels. Take a look...
    Does anybody find it even more interesting that Champion decided to display one of their broken blades next to their flea market of cut posts?

  9. #9
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    405

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by laddercompany20 View Post
    Does anybody find it even more interesting that Champion decided to display one of their broken blades next to their flea market of cut posts?
    You tell me... are you disturbed? did you stick around to watch the video on their distructive testing?

  10. #10
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by laddercompany20 View Post
    Does anybody find it even more interesting that Champion decided to display one of their broken blades next to their flea market of cut posts?
    No, but it makes me pretty happy to know they did. Champion is a company that has been involved in user input and product refinement over many years. I think you will find that blade was intentionally broken in a test overloading sequence under controlled conditions. T.C.

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    90

    Default

    I like the idea of having something within the blade to prevent it from rapidly flying off and injuring someone...but does having the strap embedded in the blade actually weaken the metal or heat treat process creating more blades to break? Anyone metallurgy experts out there?

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    811

    Cool Auto Extrication of Boron Steel

    Ron, we just sent (4) guys from my Department to an Auto Extrication Seminar/Class in Corona, CA and we cut at least (10) new Mercedes Benz for (3) days. There is definitely a difference when you cut into the Ultra-High Steel. We used Hurst Tools and they were able to cut through the posts, how they would operate is that they would stop and then once the psi increased (going into the 2nd Stage) the Cutters would start to cut again.

    What we were told and found-out is if the Cutters stall-out move towards the middle about 4-6" and try your cut there. Stay away from the bottom of the post since that is where the energy is transferred through and continues through the vehicle dispersing the energy from the crash. The old days of "cut high", "cut high", "cut high" for roof removal are over with these new vehicles. Peel and peek then "cut high", "cut lower down/middle", "cut middle" seems to be way safer and there is less boron steel rods for reinforcement located there.

    An interesting thought was brought-up by one of the Instructors. He said "I'm a Paramedic and have to renew my training every 3 years, but we don't have to update our Auto Extrication skills at a regular interval." He went on to comment about with how quick vehicle construction changes Departments should think about updating their extrication skills and classes on vehicle construction at least every 3 years. From what I experienced, I agree this class was a HUGE eye-opener. I've been on a large number of "Cutters" or T/Cs with Extrication and was amazed at how much there was still for me to learn.

    Use your resources (Vehicle Manufactures, Insurance Company Investigators, Hybrid Repair Personnel, Vendors) and get your people updated information.
    "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

    Life on the Truck (Quint) is good.....

    Eat til you're sleepy..... Sleep til you're hungry..... And repeat.....

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. WTC cross
    By tanker5117 in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 02-02-2012, 07:20 PM
  2. Think you know what a Maltese Cross looks like? Think again...
    By NobodyAnymore in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 10-04-2010, 11:09 PM
  3. World Of Fire Report: 05-25-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-26-2005, 10:30 PM
  4. Boron Pillar
    By rmoore in forum University of Extrication
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 12-12-2004, 07:28 AM
  5. Maltese Cross
    By MVFD81 in forum Fire Explorer & Jr. Firefighting
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-30-2003, 04:56 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts