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Thread: Will You Use Adhesives When Breaking Glass?

  1. #1
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    Default Will You Use Adhesives When Breaking Glass?

    One product that was marketed at FDIC 2011 was the adhesive sheets designed to be applied to tempered glass prior to breaking out the window. I included a picture below of one of the products; Packexe SMASH. The two others were Glass Keeper and Protecto Wrap(which I already talked about in the FDIC new stuff thread)

    Applying to a window takes time, although it may just be seconds.

    Applying means you have the material right with you which might not be the case unless you're serious about this and come off the rig with a punch and the adhesive sheets in your hand.

    Applying means the time spent covering the glass, in your opinion, is worth it.

    Applying means that you determined the glass can't be broken without adhesive being applied first.

    My question to you is... Is this realistic? Are we kidding ourselves? Are you really going to take the time to do this in the 'Real World'? Are you willing to pay good money for this disposable product?

    Do you use adhesives at crash scenes now?

    Will you consider using any of these adhesive products?

    Are these products a lot of 'talk' and not a lot of 'reality' or do you feel that this is a valuable tool that will become accepted across the country?

    What's your take on tempered glass adhesives?

    Packexe SMASH
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    Due to a lot of the reasons you mentioned I doubt we are going out and order a bunch of adhesive sheets. Due to the way we operate and the LACK of problems experienced with our current operations we will probably continue as we have for the last twenty as to the method of glass removal and access. Do I think the adhesives have merit? Yes,but we don't have enough "jobs"where they would be REAL valuable to overcome the issues you listed. T.c.

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    We used to use some stuff called Rescue Web years ago that was a spray adhesive and worked great. We tried some of the commercial adhesives from Home Depot and contact paper and found it wasn't as consistent. We have adapted to a number of different methods to keep glass off the patient, but I would at least have a look at the new stuff.

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    Waste of time. Access the patient(s), cover him/her/them, and get on with the show. I have chopped up a lot of cars and never seen anybody injured by breaking (or broken) glass. Besides, if the impact is significant enough to require extrication, there's probably already a good bit of glass scattered all over anyway.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
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    Will seriously review Protecto wrap product as sharps covering / cost basis versus damage to protective clothing/gloves. Downtime to gear and repair costs vs $89 dollar roll of material seems like a no brainer. Not sure about glass coverage but going to hands on trial in the real world. There is always opportunities to protect our Victims & Rescuers.

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    Packexe Smash

    This is a very good bit of equipment, granted budgets may prevent its purchase.

    Yes it is very easy to use and can be very quickly applied, as with everything it has it cons.

    We seem to look for reasons not to have something. Try it first before you say it's no good.

    At a crash scene we want to aim at working in a clinical environment, it greatly reduces the amount of glass fragments from contaminating the scene, medics dont end up kneeling in glass etc

    Where you have a vehicle on its side its very good for managing the glass in the upper doors should they need breaking.

    If its a controlled release then why not use it if needed? Do we really want to be happy with creating additional hazards, i agree there is little evidence of injury from glass debris, but surely our job is to minimise this risk in the first place.

    Just because there is already shattered glass it doesnt mean we have to create more, casualty sheeted or not, it's use can as i say reduce future scene contamination from products of glass.

    Ron if we are applying this it doesnt mean its needed to break the glass, its to reduce the mess.

    Yes i would take the time to use it in the right situation and yes its worth it.

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    As close to a last resort option, we'll put something on the window. It's not routine, it's not standard, it's close to the last choice. And we simply use duct tape.

    Low budget, simple, available. Yes, takes time, but then again if we are at this point...time is not normally the crunch anymore.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    We have covered windows in the past using duct tape. Like mentioned before it was not a time crunch when we did it. I have already talked with dept about testing the protecto wrap, the main point of interest is the dual function of sharps protection as well as glass coverage. Thank you for bringing it to everyones attention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnycutter View Post
    At a crash scene we want to aim at working in a clinical environment, it greatly reduces the amount of glass fragments from contaminating the scene, medics dont end up kneeling in glass etc.
    Clinical environment?! On an accident scene? When we are doing invasive medical procedures we are almost rarely never in anything close to a clinical environment let alone out in the middle of the expressway or upside down in a ditch.
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    It's a figure of speech mate. Dont take it literally. What it's meaning is we don't want to make any more hazards/mess than we have to.

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    Right now as I type this, it is -7 in St. Paul. Add to that, nearly every car on the road is covered in dried salt spray and road grim. So in those temps is it worth the extra time to properly apply the product and would it stick? If not, there is more delay in patient extrication due to the need to clean the window....
    Personally, I think I'll stick to the blanket plan.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    I have to agree with SPFDRum, but where I come from we deal with more rain than snow. I think its a great idea but its still very easy to either cover the PT with a sheet, or if possible have the windows rolled down to break inside door. I agree that we do need to protect the PT from further injury but IMO broken tempered glass isn't that big of a hazard.

    To me this seems like the case of the airbag cover that deploys over the steering wheel. Its a great idea but no one uses it. Instead we just DC the battery and operate from safe angles. A lot of products come out spawned from really great ideas but the real world application falls short due to circumstance.

    Everything we do knocks seconds and minutes off the golden hour, this to me doesn't seem to be worth the time it takes.

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    My fire service uses the Packaxe smash system and I have used it at most extrications I have attended since it was placed on our rescue appliance.
    One of the major advantages that seems to have been missed or understood here is once the glass has been covered by the adhesive it can be considered managed.
    Obviously the glass can be removed if nessesary to access the Pt. or any other area but it can be left in-situ in situations such as removing a door or cutting through the rear pillar with the rear window intact.
    The window will obviously break upon cutting but will remain attached to the adhesive. The window can then be removed manually or left to seperate itself when the roof is removed.

    Time is saved by not having to remove all unbroken windows where covering them takes only a minute.

    It remains to be said that the adhesive will not retain 100% of glass upon shattering so standard soft and hard protection needs to be employed but that doesn't change from existing methods.

    As to the comment about road grit affecting adehesiveness, I have found in the dusty conditions of the Australian Outback that the adhesive has trouble sticking when covered in dirt and dust. However the kit comes with a microfibre cloth and good practice is to give a quick wipe of the surface prior to application.

    In summary I have found it to be a valuable tool to be utilised and one which reduces vehicle preparation time.

  14. #14
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    This is a pic of the windows on the medic rig in our house, which is washed every morning by the oncoming operator. That kit had better come with a bucket of water and a window squeegee along with the microfiber cloth for that "quick wipe"...
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    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
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    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
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