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    Quote Originally Posted by 105 View Post
    Emotional post? Logical defense of due process is emotional now?

    Admit it - you just need a hug.
    Its great you are in touch with your sensitive side. Don't be ashamed.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Reid and Padilla were arrested on US Soil and Padilla is a US citizen.

    There is no reason to try this scumbag in the civilian courts. None.
    Sure there is. To silence anyone who ever says "he was railroaded". In a closed-court military tribunal, nobody will ever know what evidence was presented. If the case against him is so clear-cut, then put it out for everyone to see. Because otherwise, you will run up against the 911 truthers brigade....

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Its great you are in touch with your sensitive side. Don't be ashamed.
    I cried like a little girl watching old yeller.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 105 View Post
    Sure there is. To silence anyone who ever says "he was railroaded". In a closed-court military tribunal, nobody will ever know what evidence was presented. If the case against him is so clear-cut, then put it out for everyone to see. Because otherwise, you will run up against the 911 truthers brigade....
    Tell me why this enemy foreign combatant taken into military custody overseas for committing an act of war against this country should be tried in a civilian court?

    Simply for transparency or because the evidence is "clear cut"? Thats illogical.

    Our enemies hate us because of our freedoms and liberty. The thought that we can convince them otherwise by the media circus that this trial would become is not true. They will hate us regardless and in fact, will not believe that this dirtbag will get a fair trial anywhere in the USA.

    The military tribunal will be fair and is appropriate in this scenario.

    I could care less what the truthers think or say... trust me, try him in a civilian court won't make a difference. Those folks have a deranged point of view that won't respond to logic.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Tell me why this enemy foreign combatant taken into military custody overseas for committing an act of war against this country should be tried in a civilian court?

    Simply for transparency or because the evidence is "clear cut"? Thats illogical.

    Our enemies hate us because of our freedoms and liberty. The thought that we can convince them otherwise by the media circus that this trial would become is not true. They will hate us regardless and in fact, will not believe that this dirtbag will get a fair trial anywhere in the USA.

    The military tribunal will be fair and is appropriate in this scenario.

    I could care less what the truthers think or say... trust me, try him in a civilian court won't make a difference. Those folks have a deranged point of view that won't respond to logic.
    It's not about them. It's about us. They're going to hate you for a variety of reasons - including having a fair and equitable judicial system that takes logic into account and not emotive reaction and desire for vengeance.

    Who gives a damn what they hate? If you allow their hatred to change your way of life - and your system of justice, then they've just kicked your arse. You're not trying to convince any extremist anywhere that the trial was fair - you're trying to convince your citizens that "hey - if we can give a fair and open trial to this dirtbag, you can rest assured that your justice system has not be bastardized by what happened". Will there be a truther brigade? Absolutely. Would I personally rather that than to just see "guilty" come out of a closed door process? Absolutely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    No need, our country finally got it right. He's not a citizen, he was not arrested in the US. Why would this even be considered for a civilian court?
    Because that is the system of justice in our country. The US justice systems, indicts, tries, convicts, and imprisons foreigners that commit crimes on US soil or against US interests abroad as well. Nationality isn't an issue.
    Last edited by scfire86; 04-05-2011 at 11:12 AM.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by 105 View Post
    I cried like a little girl watching old yeller.
    Same here. Actually like a little boy, since I was only seven at the time.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by 105 View Post
    Who gives a damn what they hate? If you allow their hatred to change your way of life - and your system of justice, then they've just kicked your arse. You're not trying to convince any extremist anywhere that the trial was fair - you're trying to convince your citizens that "hey - if we can give a fair and open trial to this dirtbag, you can rest assured that your justice system has not be bastardized by what happened".
    So its only to convince our own citizens? So, by moving it out of the military tribunal (where it belongs), what message are we sending about our military courts?

    That the trials was not fair?

    Will there be a truther brigade? Absolutely. Would I personally rather that than to just see "guilty" come out of a closed door process? Absolutely.
    Why no faith in the military tribunals?
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Because that is the system of justice in our country. The US justice systems, indicts, tries, convicts, and imprisons foreigners that commit crimes on US soil or against US interests abroad as well. Nationality isn't an issue.
    No... no.

    There is a long history of military tribunals being used in just this manner. THAT is also part of our justice system.

    Do a little research, you'll be surprised. Look up Operation Pastorius.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Why no faith in the military tribunals?
    Because it's a closed door process. If they opened the evidence and decision making process to external public review, I'd be all for it.

    Hell, I hate when our city hall makes decisions behind closed doors... really not a fan of the judiciary doing the same thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 105 View Post
    Because it's a closed door process. If they opened the evidence and decision making process to external public review, I'd be all for it.

    Hell, I hate when our city hall makes decisions behind closed doors... really not a fan of the judiciary doing the same thing.
    Are you advocating that the military turn over all legal proceedings to civilian courts?

    Certainly if the military can't be trusted with trying terrorists, they shouldn't be trying american military personnel, right?
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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    Had this been a United States Citizen and they went to a foreign county as this guy was from, and committed the same type act, they would have been dead within the week after capture. No questions asked!!
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Are you advocating that the military turn over all legal proceedings to civilian courts?

    Certainly if the military can't be trusted with trying terrorists, they shouldn't be trying american military personnel, right?

    Did you miss the point, or are you intentionally setting up a straw man? Or both?

    "Transparency of the judicial process". Learn it. Live it. Love it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1nvestigations View Post
    The "civilian" courts are quite capable of handing out justice. Believe me he's not going to walk. A protezoa will be elected President of the United States before that happens. Life in Supermax Colorado or in a miliary prison is still life.
    i know people did not want him to step foot on US soil. There will be a media circus there ( Tim Mcveigh trial) .
    Either way, he is guilty, will be found guilty and hopefully will be executed. It does not matter where he is, heck, try him in the Haige.
    The only difference is the military tribunal is not open to the public.
    Isn't that in place NOW? T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    Had this been a United States Citizen and they went to a foreign county as this guy was from, and committed the same type act, they would have been dead within the week after capture. No questions asked!!
    More than likely an hour or two at most...
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    Quote Originally Posted by 105 View Post
    Did you miss the point, or are you intentionally setting up a straw man? Or both?

    "Transparency of the judicial process". Learn it. Live it. Love it.
    Let me spell it out for you....

    This man is not entitled to be tried in our civilian courts.

    Call it a strawman, I don't care. So again, are you advocating eliminating all military courts? Certainly our military personnel are entitled to this transparency....
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    More than likely an hour or two at most...
    You are right. Too many folks that want to abide by in the beltway says!

    That is what is wrong with this country now.

    Screw him, should have been dead years back. Send back in parts. Head first!
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Let me spell it out for you....

    This man is not entitled to be tried in our civilian courts.

    Call it a strawman, I don't care. So again, are you advocating eliminating all military courts? Certainly our military personnel are entitled to this transparency....
    It is a strawman. Which invalidates your entire argument.

    Well done. But please, feel free to embrace fascism if it helps you sleep at night. Personally, I think a teddy bear is a better idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 105 View Post
    It is a strawman. Which invalidates your entire argument.

    Well done. But please, feel free to embrace fascism if it helps you sleep at night. Personally, I think a teddy bear is a better idea.
    Your refusing to answer a pretty direct question, related to the topic at hand merely shows how weak your position is.

    I sleep well in the company of the fascists like George Washington and FDR. Both of whom embraced the use of military tribunals.

    I would recommend that you balance your Huffington Post and NY Times with some history books.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Your refusing to answer a pretty direct question, related to the topic at hand merely shows how weak your position is.

    I sleep well in the company of the fascists like George Washington and FDR. Both of whom embraced the use of military tribunals.

    I would recommend that you balance your Huffington Post and NY Times with some history books.
    Ok - let's address your red herring of a military tribunal. Members of the military sign up for military courts marshall as part of their enrollment to the service. By it's very definition, a military tribunal is a closed process in which evidence against the defense may be kept from the defense. You would be very hard pressed to find a single civilian in the world want to be tried via a military tribunal.

    Military tribunals are not set up to try criminal cases. Would you advocate trying Julian Assange in a military tribunal? He's a foreign national who broke American laws... however, if he was extradited, he would be tried in civilian court, not a military court. This is simply how it works.

    Now, as far as your wrapping yourself in the founding fathers, let's take a look here:
    you advocate trying someone in a secretive, closed door tribunal in which they may not have access to evidence against them.
    I advocate trying them in a transparent courtroom where evidence is weighed and admitted/dismissed according to laws of jurisprudence. And all evidence is available to the accused to defend themselves.

    Which do you think the founding fathers would support? Which sounds fascist to you? And would you be tried by a military tribunal if you were on trial?

    Really, just admit you want vengeance, not justice. You don't really give a damn about the process - just want to see the sonofabitch hang. And that's fine - but don't pretend to be advocating justice when you're advocating the exact opposite of justice.

    Now if you'll excuse me, I'll hang out with the left-wing whackos who believe the integrity of the justice system is more important than any one man being tried.

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    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
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    Quote Originally Posted by E40FDNYL35 View Post
    That would be too quick an end.
    How about a set of stocks in Manhattan and the use of the cat o nine ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 105 View Post
    Ok - let's address your red herring of a military tribunal. Members of the military sign up for military courts marshall as part of their enrollment to the service. By it's very definition, a military tribunal is a closed process in which evidence against the defense may be kept from the defense. You would be very hard pressed to find a single civilian in the world want to be tried via a military tribunal.

    Military tribunals are not set up to try criminal cases. Would you advocate trying Julian Assange in a military tribunal? He's a foreign national who broke American laws... however, if he was extradited, he would be tried in civilian court, not a military court. This is simply how it works.

    Now, as far as your wrapping yourself in the founding fathers, let's take a look here:
    you advocate trying someone in a secretive, closed door tribunal in which they may not have access to evidence against them.
    I advocate trying them in a transparent courtroom where evidence is weighed and admitted/dismissed according to laws of jurisprudence. And all evidence is available to the accused to defend themselves.

    Which do you think the founding fathers would support? Which sounds fascist to you? And would you be tried by a military tribunal if you were on trial?

    Really, just admit you want vengeance, not justice. You don't really give a damn about the process - just want to see the sonofabitch hang. And that's fine - but don't pretend to be advocating justice when you're advocating the exact opposite of justice.

    Now if you'll excuse me, I'll hang out with the left-wing whackos who believe the integrity of the justice system is more important than any one man being tried.



    It is "Military Courts-Martial"


    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    It is "Military Courts-Martial"


    Dammit - all this time I was tried by a speaker stack - I feel railroaded


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    Valve amps forever!
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