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    Default The Akron Saberjet and similiar nozzles...

    I found some super old forum discussions on the Saberjet nozzles (from almost 10 years ago). I would like to get some updated insight from some of you on your opinion of/experiences with the Akron Saberjet Nozzle and which tip you prefer and why. My department is preparing to purchase a smooth bore type nozzle, and the Saberjet seems to be the consensus pick. One of the biggest things we are arguing over is tip size. So which tip size does your department use? I personally like the 15/16" which flows 183gpm at 50psi. But I am very much interested in why my pick is a bad one, etc....thanks in advance for your opinions...

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    The biggest challenge is for depts like mine that moved from automatic to smoothbore nozzles. Seven or eight years later and we're still fighting it. You have to change your habits and techniques for handling hose and nozzles due to the lower pressures. Chasing kinks is even more important-with an automatic nozzle kinks reduce flow but you still get a decent stream. The same kink and your smoothbore might as well be an open butt.

    As far as the Sabrejet, we started out with 15/16 and switched to 7/8 due to nozzle reaction. We run with 3 man engine companies and the nozzleman ends up handling the line on his own a lot. No one ever uses the fog option, we find the guys prefer the standard smoothbores. If you're not going to use the fog, the SJ is like a boat anchor compared to a standard smoothbore.

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    i have only had them on mutual aid incidents and trainings with them. we stay clear of them.

    the biggest issue i have is both m/a depts that have them use them on their 2.5"s.....with one inch tips!!! why? they have either 1" or 7/8" on their 1.75" lines. so why carry the extra hose weight if you get the same or similar flows?

    best bet to me is start to figure out the your target flow for interior flows (residential vs commercial) and then your need for exterior flows. once done get the nozzles that fulfill those requirements and train train train. nozzle grip and techniques go a long way.

    fyi: we run 185 and 326 gpm lines (reaction forces are 77 and 122 pounds) with 4 man engine companies.
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

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    If you get them, go for the single shutoff version. A mutual aid company of ours has the dual shutoff and the are constantly turning on when the nozzle is bumped or dragged across the ground.

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    What are the other tip sizes being discussed? We are using some SabreJet nozzles with 15/16th tips on 1-3/4 lines and they work just fine in terms of nozzle reaction and flow. Our regular smoothbores are 1" on 1-3/4 lines and also seem to be working good.

    We have the single shut off models and something to be aware of is that this is not what I'd call an interchangeable dual-purpose nozzle like it seems to be billed as. For fire attack, you will have to always use the smoothbore part because the fog nozzle part only tightens up to a narrow fog, not an actual straightstream. Also, there is a 50psi difference between the recommended operating pressures for the 2 settings.

    I would recommend passing on Akron's "zero torque" feature if you do buy from them. Our nozzles have it and we pretty much hate it. It adds a good 12+ inches in length to the nozzle plus noticeable weight and the "boat anchor" reference is pretty much on the mark. It's size also creates some problems when packing the crosslays, particularly if trying to do a single stack, shoulder load set up. The nozzle is also a bit cumbersome and hard to manipulate in tighter spaces. The ZT feature is supposed to "remove" a lot of the nozzle reaction, but comparing side by side with an Akron TurboJet, we really didn't notice any difference and definitely not enough to overcome the issues described above.

    We've been using them for 3-4 years now and they were an improvement in terms of flow to what we had been using, but not very popular otherwise. Our new engine came in (16 months ago) with all smoothbore nozzles (what I had lobbied for when the SabreJets were purchased) for the small handlines. Our 2 front-line units now have some of both nozzles on the handlines. The majority of times it seems that with the choice of nozzle, the first line off is one of the smoothbores.

    Personally, I'd pass on the SabreJets in favor of a plain old smoothbore. Good Luck, hope it works out for you.
    Last edited by FireMedic049; 04-08-2011 at 05:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffmedcbk1 View Post
    the biggest issue i have is both m/a depts that have them use them on their 2.5"s.....with one inch tips!!! why? they have either 1" or 7/8" on their 1.75" lines. so why carry the extra hose weight if you get the same or similar flows?
    I know what you mean. When our new engine came in, it had smoothbores (1'' tip) for the small lines and a SabreJet (7/8" tip) for the 2-1/2. Not sure why we'd not get a smoothbore for the big line in the first place.

    I asked if it was supposed to be 7/8" tip and was told all of the nozzles were supposed to be 7/8" tips, but it was decided not to send the 1" tips back and have to wait for them to be replaced. I then expressed my concern that our big line was going to have a lower flow capability with that tip than our small lines and that apparently was not a shared concern.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    I know what you mean. When our new engine came in, it had smoothbores (1'' tip) for the small lines and a SabreJet (7/8" tip) for the 2-1/2. Not sure why we'd not get a smoothbore for the big line in the first place.

    I asked if it was supposed to be 7/8" tip and was told all of the nozzles were supposed to be 7/8" tips, but it was decided not to send the 1" tips back and have to wait for them to be replaced. I then expressed my concern that our big line was going to have a lower flow capability with that tip than our small lines and that apparently was not a shared concern.
    i hate it too.... we have had tft "handline series" autos on both the 1.75" and the 2.5"s up till 10 years ago when we (a group of us) made a push for the sb's. people just can't understand that the flow is the same at the same tip pressure and that true flows are all about the orifice or outlet of the nozzle, otherwise it is only the fl that is different on the lines.

    if i were you, i'd pull the 2.5's for residential and your 1.75's for commercial fires..... i wonder what people would say?
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    I know what you mean. When our new engine came in, it had smoothbores (1'' tip) for the small lines and a SabreJet (7/8" tip) for the 2-1/2. Not sure why we'd not get a smoothbore for the big line in the first place.

    I asked if it was supposed to be 7/8" tip and was told all of the nozzles were supposed to be 7/8" tips, but it was decided not to send the 1" tips back and have to wait for them to be replaced. I then expressed my concern that our big line was going to have a lower flow capability with that tip than our small lines and that apparently was not a shared concern.
    what if you just switched the internal tips? also some sbjet's now can take a 1.125" tip, find out if yours can.
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    I know what you mean. When our new engine came in, it had smoothbores (1'' tip) for the small lines and a SabreJet (7/8" tip) for the 2-1/2. Not sure why we'd not get a smoothbore for the big line in the first place.
    I'd ditch the Comb tip on the 2.5 and go with a 1 1/4 smooth. IF you are reaching for the big line you're in a fight anyway. Best to go for reach, volume and penetration. Remember ADULTS.

    Advanced Fire

    Delayed Response

    Unknown Location of fire

    Lightweight Construction

    Tons of water

    Standpipe


    And we still use the old Navy APN's with the goose neck applicator for the trash line. Works spiffy on dumpsters and car fires.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    ...I would recommend passing on Akron's "zero torque" feature if you do buy from them. Our nozzles have it and we pretty much hate it. It adds a good 12+ inches in length to the nozzle plus noticeable weight and the "boat anchor" reference is pretty much on the mark. It's size also creates some problems when packing the crosslays, particularly if trying to do a single stack, shoulder load set up. The nozzle is also a bit cumbersome and hard to manipulate in tighter spaces. The ZT feature is supposed to "remove" a lot of the nozzle reaction, but comparing side by side with an Akron TurboJet, we really didn't notice any difference and definitely not enough to overcome the issues described above.
    ...
    ZT is great on a 2-1/2" or 1-1/2" CAFS (which is where we use then). Not that big a impact on NR in a std 1-1/2" water.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truck_3 View Post
    I'd ditch the Comb tip on the 2.5 and go with a 1 1/4 smooth.
    If it was up to me, that would have been the nozzle instead of the one we have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffmedcbk1 View Post
    what if you just switched the internal tips? also some sbjet's now can take a 1.125" tip, find out if yours can.
    Had that thought when I first noticed the 7/8" tip. Unfortunately, my input doesn't seem to be of much interest to those that can make that change.

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