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Thread: LDH Hose Brand?

  1. #1
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    Default LDH Hose Brand?

    We are purchasing ~15,000 feet of 5" large-diameter-hose for four departments (17 trucks) through a regional FEMA/AFG grant.

    What is your opinion of the following brands:

    Mercedes Textiles - "Megaflow" (double jacket)

    Angus - "Hi-flo" (single jacket)

    Armored Textiles - (single jacket)

    Key Hose - double jacket

    Kochek (aka Key Hose) - single jacket

    Snaptite


    We're looking for opinions on durability, friction loss, packability (is that really a word), warranty support etc.

    Are there any other brands and/or particular models we missed ?


  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber ffmedcbk1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart View Post
    We're looking for opinions on durability,
    double jackets are lasting longer, some are field repairable some are not, get samples... with that amount of hose needed suppliers will kiss up an send stuff

    friction loss,
    either is about the same.what flow rates are you going for, because fl in 5" is negligible between brands. if you need to push 2500 gpm over 2500 feet just gt good at setting up relay pumping ops in my opinion. most of the time it is 5-7 fl at 1000 gpm per 100 ft. max typical distance with no elevation is 2250 feet to achieve 1000 gpm. do you need more than that?

    however some cloth hose is rated to 250 or 300 psi, if it is needed for long lays at 2000 gpm go with cloth, you can get approx 900 feet of 2000 gpm before needing another pumper in the relay at 300 psi tested hose



    packability (is that really a word),
    most rubber hose sucks at packing well, votes go to cloth hose here

    warranty support etc.
    all mfg dependent ati and snap tite i think have 10 year mfg defect warranties
    last thing is expect to pay around 50% more for cloth hose, we have had quotes of $520 for rubber and about $750 for cloth per 100feet sections

    hope that helps

    we recently bought snap tite rubber due to cost factor, not needing pressures on the lines greater than 200, and also it is made exclusively in the USA, others we contacted were partially made oversees and one was totally oversees built but was an "American" company.

    we have also previously bought snap tite and had virtually zero issues. i do repair the some of the ends on the hoses when it comes about 15-20 years old. it just gets alot of stress there. this is also an advantage of cloth hose but isn't too big of an issue for us.
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    Woven hose, as mentioned, packs better. Extruded hose is a pain in the butt to pack.
    But, there is a difference in friction loss.

    Extruded hose expands as it is pressurized, so the friction loss actually goes down. Woven hose stretches out, so the friction loss remains constant for a given gpm flow.

    With extruded hose you do not get "snaking" of a line in the street that you will see with woven hose. If you are careful about how you lay extruded hose you can frequently keep a road passable for other apparatus where the woven hose might not allow that.

    Our first experience with LDH was woven hose which packed very nicely and you could actually get quite a bit more of it into the hose bed. But we later moved over to extruded hose and have never looked back.

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    Both my volly and career FDs have been using Nitrile rubber 5" hose for over a decade and we have not had any real issues with it either in wear or usage.

    I agree that loading rubber hose can be a hassle, especially if you haven't removed all the air from the line. This can easily be done by allowing the water to "Vacuum drain" the line when you are finished using it. You keep one end either capped or folded over and let the water drain out the other. As the water drains it not only removes the water but sucks the hose flat as it does it. This is easily loaded as flat or flatter than jacketed hose. Otherwise roll the hose to removes the air.

    Personally, I think your cost estimations have a serious flaw in them. if you buy jacketted hose you need spare hose for when you need to wash and dry the hose that was used. With rubber hose you spray off the dirt and reload it. Which for a volly FD gets people back to work or back to their families faster.

    I have used Snap-Tite, Angus, and Key LDH and had no problems with any of them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefengineer11 View Post
    Woven hose, as mentioned, packs better. Extruded hose is a pain in the butt to pack.

    Our first experience with LDH was woven hose which packed very nicely and you could actually get quite a bit more of it into the hose bed.
    Dammit, Alzheimers must be setting in........

    That woven hose was the biggest pain in the azz crap to pack EVER. When the woven outer jacket separated from the rubber liner (which was essentially each and every time the hose was charged) it never re-seated itself the same way. As a result, the schit was always expanded, and it always looked liked someone partially charged it or it would look like it was connected to a discharge with a leaking valve....Remember how many times we would come home from a drill or a fire and we had two or three rolls in the crew cab because we couldn't get it back into the hosebed????? Then later on we even tried rolling it every time before packing it and that didn't even work!!!!

    The rubber hose packs flat each and every time.
    Last edited by FWDbuff; 04-08-2011 at 03:02 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Dammit, Alzheimers must be setting in........

    That woven hose was the biggest pain in the azz crap to pack EVER. When the woven outer jacket separated from the rubber liner (which was essentially each and every time the hose was charged) it never re-seated itself the same way. As a result, the schit was always expanded, and it always looked liked someone partially charged it or it would look like it was connected to a discharge with a leaking valve....Remember how many times we would come home from a drill or a fire and we had two or three rolls in the crew cab because we couldn't get it back into the hosebed????? Then later on we even tried rolling it every time before packing it and that didn't even work!!!!

    The rubber hose packs flat each and every time.
    When it was new, before the inner liners started separating and twisting, it packed nicely. I heard that the hose manufacturere corrected the cause of the twisting, but I don't know - we haven't used any more of it. 95 had a different brand of woven hose. Did they have the same problem with theirs when you were there?

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    I have used Snap Tite for several years with no issues. It is now a sister company to All American Hose, they now have the same parent company. The hose I recently purchased from them came with a handy tag for each section that has the serial number and date of manufacture and they have a free data base tool which can be used to track testing and maintenance. I will specify Snap Tite again next year with the next truck purchase.

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    We recently replaced our hose and went with Key rubber LDH. It packs very nicely, especially if you use a hose roller to fully drain the water/air. You may want to check the weight if that is an issue. I think the rubber LDH was lighter than the woven hose. When you put a thousand feet or more on a truck it can add up.

    Also the Key hose comes in several different colors, red, blue, yellow and orange I believe if that is an issue. We picked a different color than our mutual aid departments. Ask whoever you buy it from to stencil your name and sequentially number each piece. They should do this at no charge.

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    We used Angus for YEARS,Great hose. The last two loads are Mercedes Megaflow,haven't had it long enough to form a opinion. I KNOW you can't repack it as well as the Angus once it has been used. T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 04-15-2011 at 09:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firesarge69 View Post
    I have used Snap Tite for several years with no issues. It is now a sister company to All American Hose, they now have the same parent company. The hose I recently purchased from them came with a handy tag for each section that has the serial number and date of manufacture and they have a free data base tool which can be used to track testing and maintenance. I will specify Snap Tite again next year with the next truck purchase.
    I talked to All American at FDIC. The sales rep. said that Snap Tite sold off the hose division to a newly formed company (All American). Snap Tite kept the rest and concentrating on their non fire business lines.

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    National (All American) Triple Duty is a great hose. Its service pressure is rated at 300 PSI, so using it to supply master streams, FDC and aerials is not an issue. It packs very nicely. We are phasing out all of our Snap Tite and Angus single jacket nitrile supply lines and switching over. We have used this Triple Duty hose in our 4" beds since 1989, some of it is still in service (replacing bit by bit). The rubber hose develops pin hole leaks all the time. Last year 6 100' lengths failed for pinhole leaks throughout.

    You do not have to hang dry this hose, or any other modern double jacket hose because its not cotton and will not rot. Hose it off, pack it up. Old myth. Ask anyone out there with double jacket hose in hosebeds that arent covered if they unload the bed each time it rains and hang all the hose up to dry, I bet they dont. Specifically, triple duty is coated with an abrasion resistance coating thak makes it even more water resistant. You can get it in 5 different colors, rubber comes in 2.

    Someone mentioned weight, the difference in their nitrile vs double jacket is within 1 to 2 lb.

    One other MAJOR advantage is how easily you can drag the triple duty DJ. If you do hand stretches, youll be amazed how easy you can drag this stuff compared to nitrile.
    Last edited by MG3610; 04-09-2011 at 09:48 PM.

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    We've used Angus and Snap Tite. Always worked well for us. Using the vacuum method and or a hose roller eliminates the problems associated with air. Packs nice and flat!

    I like the idea of different colored hose, not just for M/A calls, but for split beds. Even the greenest of explorers is hard pressed to screw up all the red goes in one bed and all the yellow in the other!

    Yep, a dept name, and piece number make lives easier. A unit number is nice, too.

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    Check out North American Fire Hose. Nice stuff and made in America. (California I believe)

    Also, although a hose ( any manufacturer) may be rated for 300 psi, the Storz couplings are only good for 225 psi max. If you want 300#, must got to threaded couplings.

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    My Dept uses Niedner brand hose, 4".

    It's double jacketed hose that is service tested to 300 psi. Meets NFPA standards for supply, relay and attack hose.

    It's really tough stuff, I much prefer it over rubber jacketed/covered LDH hose that's tested to 200 psi.
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    We currently utilize single jacket LDH however due to age and installation of new hydrants with increased pressures we are in the process of replacing it. The replacement hose will be Double Jacketed LDH and we are looking at these brands all of which offer a 10 year warranty.

    All-American Hose (National Hose Triple Duty)
    Municipal Fire Hose / Armored Textiles Inc.,Formerly Jaffrey (JAFLINE)
    Key Fire Hose (Big 10)

    Looking for recommendations, comments or concerns on any of these.

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    We got some All-American. Won't get it again. Couplings feel like they are made from aluminum foil.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    When we went to extruded 5" hose, we went with Angus Hi-Combat Lite. It's slightly heavier than their standard supply hose but tests at 225 psi rather than 200. Working pressure is 200 rather than 185. We also specify Red Head couplings. The combination has worked well for us.

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    We just changed to Mercedes (Highwater) 4" hose. Seems to work just fine.

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    We used Angus and similar hose for years with little or no problems. Worst thing would be pinholes, but no major hose breaks that I can recall. We just got all new megaflow hose, haven't had it long enough to get it dirty. Can't find any friction loss charts for it though, you'd think it would've come with the hose. Made in Canada, not USA.

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    The only information I can find on Mercedes Textiles Warranty is what they state as their Limited “Two Year All Hazards Warranty” . Do they provide any other type of warranty on their hose ?

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