what gear are you issued as a junior in your dept? full bunker gear, standard helmet, pager ,2-way radio, ....
what gear are you issued as a junior in your dept? full bunker gear, standard helmet, pager ,2-way radio, ....
We don't issue anything to juniors. Just to Seniors.
As for gear - we have a pile of gear in varying states of condition in the storeroom at the station. The juniors are more than welcome to go through it and find any that fits them. Obviously, if for whatever reason it became needed by full members, they'd hand it over - however, we honestly have far more used gear than I think we'd ever have a need for.
No pagers though - juniors are allowed to ride along if they're at the hall when the alarm sounds and there is room - but they are not paged into a call.
Full bunker gear (usually the older gear with the exception of helmets which are brand new), we are issued pagers but they don't have the rescue tones since we can't go on those calls, and then we get the same uniforms as the FFs.
Our Jr's receive full bunker gear of whatever condition we can find around the house. They receive a pager, they receive a HT1000 radio, As We get HT1250's er whatever the new ones are. They get a 1010 helmet, unless they buy a N5A like the rest of us (All Sr. members have a New Yorker, it just worked out that way).
We are generally Issued Coat,pants,boots,helmets,structure gloves and bunker boots. we have to buy hoods on out own
We are all issued full bunker gear (helmet,structure Gloves,bunkers,coat,uniform) i wish we had radios and pagers but we have to buy our own which we do.
In Geneva we are issued a t-shirt, dress shirt, and used/donated turnout gear, we can not keep the helmets they supply us unless we buy our own which me and one other explorer have done.
No in geneva Illinois.
Our juniors get full turnout gear and a pager. Turnout gear is usually older gear ranging in condition. Pagers are usually Minitor 3s. Once they turn 18 and after they have the right certs and training they are issued brand new gear and a Minitor 4 or 5 along with a Motorola HT1250. Whatever they purchase themselves they are allowed to use as long as it meets dept regulations.
We get full turnout gear, brush gear (possibly, will have to check) a pager and I believe a dept uniform
I find the fact that ANY Juniors/Explorers or whatever you all are...get issued ANYTHING AT ALL absolutely incredible!......
Bottom line..YOU all are little teenyboppers.NOT FIREFIGHTERS!..when YOU are 18 AND pass the testing/get hired on..then you can be issued with equipment.
There is NO reason for having anyone under 18 having gear at all...you shouldn;t be riding apparatus, NOT being at ANY emergency scene period..certainly NOT responding to "calls" at any time, let alone by hearing it on a Department pager or 2 way radio..(again it;s rediculous to allow a minor access to controlled frequency FD radios)...
This has gotten WAY out of hand. The original idea behind "junior's" was to be able to teach them first Aid, teach them the basics ( BOOKlearning) of Firefighting and allow for SOME hands on experience in CONTROLLED TRAINING SITUATIONS. Not to have a bunch of "super dupper "trained" Junior's running around a fire scene...God forbid someone gets hurt or killed by this idiotic "experience".
You know, in Ontario Canada they actually banned even the COLLEGE Pre Fire Service Co-Op placements...and those are FULL TIME, FULLY QUALIFIED College Students!.
So "kiddies"...save your money, your a wannabe, you all don;t need any N5A Helmets, hell you don;t even need gear..
So really maybe just keep it quiet..cause the FD's are full of people that are ****ed about getting Full Time FF positions cut and general understaffing...SO, how do you think they will feel if a bunch of kids are essentially "taking their jobs"?
You know, I;m sorry, but I;ve seen COUNTLESS posts about this kind of BS by a bunch of whiney kids, complaining about "not being ALLOWED" to do what THEY want, that THEIR GEAR isn;t as good as a REAL FF's..enough is enough.
A Career Fire Officer..and one that has seen enough of these kids crap..
I can only speak for my own organization which is a combination department. We have had Junior Firefighters since WWII. These members are ages 16 to 18. We have tightly controlled administrative and operational SOP's for the Juniors which, like any other SOP, may not be violated without discipline per the guidelines. Juniors at our place may (after being trained and pass qualification written and practical exams)
-respond on apparatus to all emergencies, as long as there is room available on apparatus (never a problem in recent years, which is why the Juniors are especially welcome)
-tag hydrants, hook up and charge supply lines
-assist engineers hooking up lines
-assist incident commanders with accountability, keepiong track of on-hand and incoming resources
-help to raise ground ladders
-gofer tools and equipment
-set up rehab, get water, towels
They may not operate inside an IDLH environment at any time. They may not raise ground ladders if smoke is banking down. They may not operate ANY kind of power tools, no iffs, ands or butts.
Having our Juniors trained to the minimal levels that we do allows them to perform jobs that would otherwise have to be done by valuable senior personnel (and by the way this in no way is a slam against the Juniors...) Kind of nice not to have to waste a senior guy tagging a hydrant when he could be used on the initial attack handline.
They do carry pagers, dependent upon availability (senior guys getting preference of course.) They do not get portables. They do get second-hand gear, but it is always serviceable gear that is in acceptable condition. Only senior members who have successfully passed FFI and show good attendance get custom-fit brand new gear (we buy 6-8 sets per year on a rotating basis.)
They must abide by the child labor laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. During the school year, they may not respond between 2300 and 0600. In the summer they may respond 24 hours. They must maintain decent grades (not perfect, just decent.) Any poor grades is an immediate suspension of all FD activities until such time that grades are brought back up. I dont know if they are still allowed to leave school- back when I was a Junior we were allowed to, but I think I heard that they were thinking about stopping this. They may not bunk out overnight in the bunk room.
Our Juniors, while in training, must train at all times while in the firehouse. They may not be in the living quarters or TV/Rec Room if they are not fully qualified to ride. If they are not Quald to ride, they must be out in the engine bays studying equipment locations, doing practical stuff with a senior FF or Officer, or in the Admin Offices in a quiet place studying Junior/Rookie manuals. Once they are qualifed to ride, they may go in the living quarters and TV/Rec Room, but woes them (and any rookies over 18 for that matter) if there are any dirty apparatus or tools, or other chores around the firehouse that needs to be done.
We bring them in at a young, impressionable age and give them valuable life skills, not to mention training. Some of our Juniors (after advancing through to senior firefighter of course have gone off to:
-Two members joined the ranks of the Philadelphia Fire Department (one is now a Lieutenant in a busy Truck Company)
-One member has joined the ranks of the Baltimore FD
-One has enlisted (and is still active duty after 8 years) in the USAF as a Firefighter
-One has gone to the University of Maryland Fire Protection Engineer program, and is currently a live-in member of a busy Prince George's County company while he is getting his four-year engineering degree
-Three (myself included) have gone on to become Federal Firefighters.
In closing, again I agree that most of these kids today have become somewhat demanding and have a "whats in it for me" attitude. But at our place, they learn very quickly to "close mouth open eyes" and be thankful for the gear that they do get. For any invalid complaints or whining may result in their standing on the outside looking inside. Our Juniors are valuable members of our team, and we give them the respect they EARN.
FWDbuff, Volunteer Officer, Career Firefighter D/O and Former JUNIOR FIREFIGHTER (1988-1990.)
Thanks for your post...I'm glad to see that your Dept. has got it so well organized...and glad to see that out of your Junior Program so many made the transition into the FF brotherhood...obviously something is being done right there..
I may have come across to strong, BUT I still believe that in this day and age, where FD's are having companies cut, equipment shortages, staffing issues etc. that any Dept. could JUSTIFY to their tax paying citizens WHY kids are being "Issued" with pagers, radios, bunker gear etc....and WHY are they taking the jobs of Firefighters at a fire scene?....can you see how that could directly effect HOW a Community and Council could use that AGAINST a Fire Department?....they could say " hey, we don;t NEED to hire those 5 extra Firefighters!...we have these Juniors that will do it for FREE!"...
OH, and look, the Budget Increase the Department just put in for...wel IF they have all this money to buy extra pagers and gear for these juniors, well, I guess the DEPARTMENT really doesn;'t need that budget increase!"
can you see how that could happen?
AND I did clearly say that a Junior Program that taught the kids First aid/CPR, the basics of FF'ing and SOME controlled training, you know fire service ropes and knots, THEORY of fire attack etc...could be of great benifit to the kids and the community in general
BUT can anyone seriously DENY that there are countless posts in this section were kids are actively complaining that THEY are'nt being allowed to go interior?..that THEY ARE manning hoselines at actual calls?... Child Labour laws or not, simply put..these kids are doing things that they simply shouldn't in the first place...THEN complain about not doing MORE in a public forum!
and for ANDREW R,
SURE anyone COULD buy a pager or radio and look up the info...BUT IF YOU or anyone else trys to USE those radios without being a Recognized and Authorized user....then YOU can face federal repercussions..simply put, LIKE the Military radios, they are PROTECTED Frequencies...meaning that not everyone can use them, they ARE NOT PUBLIC ACCESS...and having an attitude of "well I'll just go and AGAIN do what I LIKE, and buy my own radio WITHOUT written approval of the Fire Chief, can and should land you in SERIOUS trouble, same with a pager...
Surely you can see how having kids operating on a fire ground or FD frequency could cause severe issues for Incident Command and Dispatch...the way I see it...if Juniors want to use "radios"..well buy them some Motorola "talk abouts" or something in the public frequency range
I am simply trying to point out some of the "ISSUES" with the actions, wants and complaints from these Juniors....obviously things that for the most part, can;t seem to see......:rolleyes:
Firstly, it;s not just bitching.......
It seems like several people here just cannot see how incredibly dangerous and foolish it is to have kids "working" on a fire scene...
You say that YOU do accountability?...do you have any formal training on it?...do you understand the liability involved?..YOU are responsible of keeping track of everyones whereabouts, actions, tasks etc right?....SO, as a "Junior" YOU are going to be able to deal with a high stress, pannic ridden situation like a MAYDAY? or a RIT activation?....B.S....Do you understand that in that type of event YOU, Your DEPT. and IC will be HUNG OUT TO DRY?...If a FF got killed or injured while YOU where at the "accountability" board, the Lawyers and prosectuters and investigators would chew you all up.....PERIOD...
AGAIN, YOU, as a Junior, clearly just said that YOU WANT TO CHANGE the rules of your Dept. for YOUR wants....Obviously the FD doesn;t want kids dealing with traumas and med calls for a reason..why should they change the rules to please you?....this is the same sort of B.S. that I was refering to...thank you SO much for re highlighting the points I was making...
Take it easy...enjoy being a kid...worry about "knowing what the hell your doing" WHEN you get hired and TRAINED as a Fire Fighter...cause whatever you "Learn" now, won;t mean crap in another Department..you still get trained, learn THEIR way of doing things.....
Stick to learning things that CAN be carried over....CPR/DeFib/F.A. etc...
I just have a very hard time thinking that I am the only one that sees the incredibly high level of risk and liability having Juniors anywhere near a fire scene...
and justifying it by saying that "You do the crap that no one else wants to do" is GARBAGE...if a FF is assigned a task, any task...than they should complete it quickly efficiently and get on with it.......even or especially the crappy details.......
You know, FWD and Ryan K seem to have understood what I was saying...I even appologized for maybe voicing what I wanted to say to strongly......then low and behold another "wonderboy Junior" shows up and tells me to shut up...then exempilifies EXACTLY what I was saying in the first place.......Nothing more than a Junior WHACKER in the making from what I can see........NR9036, I can;t see you doing well in Fire Service if your already bucking the system and trying to get IT to fit YOU......YOU should be serving in IT for the public.......
Keep it up......the Juniors/explorers program sure is doing wonders in producing attitudes like some on here......
TO those Juniors that at least understood ( didn;t say agree with) my points, than keep at it.....stay on the RIGHT path and mind set.......and good luck...
Disclaimer: My official title is auxiliary. I am 18 years old, I've been in the "auxiliary" role since I was 16. Our departments by-laws don't allow full membership until age 21. I'm FFI & Haz-Mat Ops certified. With that said, here's my input.
I started FFI class when I was 16, wasn't allowed to test until I turned 18, which was a year and a half after that. As a junior/auxiliary/whateveryouwannacallit, I didn't ride calls till after I finished my FFI class. I'm also a member in a small, close-knit community and my dad has been a member on the same department for 35 years. Not saying I was an exception or anything, but all of the other FF's new me. I was issued a pager about a year ago, and have been responding to calls since. I also leave school for calls (I'm a senior, with 4 days left). The only reason I do this is because my principal literally asked me if I wanted to, and told me as long as I kept in good scholastic standing I'm good to go. Of course, I've held up to his standards. Our department does only fire, no EMS, but since I've turned 18, I joined our local ambulance service as a volunteer. I'm one of three cross-trained FF/EMS on our department, one of which is another auxiliary member, and the other only drives for the ambulance, he does no time in the back. The other night we had a bad 10-50, multiple ejections and another victim needing extrication. The fire department always beats the ambulance to calls, so I would be the first EMS person on scene. (I'm not certified to any EMT or FR level. I've only had in house training and CPR.) I had the other guys in the back of the rescue asking ME what to do when we got there and how I would need them to assist me in stabilizing these victims as much as possible until ambulances arrived. These other guys basically put me in charge of these victims until I had more highly trained EMS people arrive.
Now, I understand this is only one incident, and one case. I also understand that every department is different. My department holds our "auxiliary" members to as high of if not higher expectations as they hold regular firefighters. One a scene, they expect us to operate as any other firefighter who can't do certain things. We have regular maintenance schedules like regular members. We have attendance requirements, and we are trained to as high of level as regular members. As far as gear, we are issued the same stuff as regular firefighters. We were issued spare gear, but essentially the same stuff as regular members. I got a pager, no radio, but regular FF's don't have portables either. They are on the trucks.
In conclusion, my department is very different from any other one with a junior program. A program was developed that fits the department very well. Maybe this is an example of how successful junior program can be run.