Thread: gear?

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    Default gear?

    what gear are you issued as a junior in your dept? full bunker gear, standard helmet, pager ,2-way radio, ....

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    We don't issue anything to juniors. Just to Seniors.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    We don't issue anything to juniors. Just to Seniors.
    That explains why I was given a bathrobe and set of dentures upon signing up.... I just thought they were trying to be nice.

    As for gear - we have a pile of gear in varying states of condition in the storeroom at the station. The juniors are more than welcome to go through it and find any that fits them. Obviously, if for whatever reason it became needed by full members, they'd hand it over - however, we honestly have far more used gear than I think we'd ever have a need for.

    No pagers though - juniors are allowed to ride along if they're at the hall when the alarm sounds and there is room - but they are not paged into a call.

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    Full bunker gear (usually the older gear with the exception of helmets which are brand new), we are issued pagers but they don't have the rescue tones since we can't go on those calls, and then we get the same uniforms as the FFs.
    "A Brother Above All Else" ~Glen Schade

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bmags84 View Post
    what gear are you issued as a junior in your dept? full bunker gear, standard helmet, pager ,2-way radio, ....
    we are givein full bunker gear a dept. uniform with an exploer patchtes we have are own masks and regulaters and SCBA's but those are keepted locked up at the fire acadmy and if things go as planed we may get are own traning engine to be stored at the acadamy

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    Our Jr's receive full bunker gear of whatever condition we can find around the house. They receive a pager, they receive a HT1000 radio, As We get HT1250's er whatever the new ones are. They get a 1010 helmet, unless they buy a N5A like the rest of us (All Sr. members have a New Yorker, it just worked out that way).

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    Default Gear

    We are generally Issued Coat,pants,boots,helmets,structure gloves and bunker boots. we have to buy hoods on out own

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    We are all issued full bunker gear (helmet,structure Gloves,bunkers,coat,uniform) i wish we had radios and pagers but we have to buy our own which we do.

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    Default gear.

    In Geneva we are issued a t-shirt, dress shirt, and used/donated turnout gear, we can not keep the helmets they supply us unless we buy our own which me and one other explorer have done.

    stay safe,
    Nick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GFDexplorer View Post
    In Geneva we are issued a t-shirt, dress shirt, and used/donated turnout gear, we can not keep the helmets they supply us unless we buy our own which me and one other explorer have done.

    stay safe,
    Nick.
    Are you located in geneva in the state of NY, because im in rochester NY i saw that and was just wondering.
    Thanks,
    Nick

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    No in geneva Illinois.

    Stay safe,
    Nick.

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    Our juniors get full turnout gear and a pager. Turnout gear is usually older gear ranging in condition. Pagers are usually Minitor 3s. Once they turn 18 and after they have the right certs and training they are issued brand new gear and a Minitor 4 or 5 along with a Motorola HT1250. Whatever they purchase themselves they are allowed to use as long as it meets dept regulations.

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    We get full turnout gear, brush gear (possibly, will have to check) a pager and I believe a dept uniform

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    OK,

    I find the fact that ANY Juniors/Explorers or whatever you all are...get issued ANYTHING AT ALL absolutely incredible!......

    Bottom line..YOU all are little teenyboppers.NOT FIREFIGHTERS!..when YOU are 18 AND pass the testing/get hired on..then you can be issued with equipment.

    There is NO reason for having anyone under 18 having gear at all...you shouldn;t be riding apparatus, NOT being at ANY emergency scene period..certainly NOT responding to "calls" at any time, let alone by hearing it on a Department pager or 2 way radio..(again it;s rediculous to allow a minor access to controlled frequency FD radios)...

    This has gotten WAY out of hand. The original idea behind "junior's" was to be able to teach them first Aid, teach them the basics ( BOOKlearning) of Firefighting and allow for SOME hands on experience in CONTROLLED TRAINING SITUATIONS. Not to have a bunch of "super dupper "trained" Junior's running around a fire scene...God forbid someone gets hurt or killed by this idiotic "experience".

    You know, in Ontario Canada they actually banned even the COLLEGE Pre Fire Service Co-Op placements...and those are FULL TIME, FULLY QUALIFIED College Students!.

    So "kiddies"...save your money, your a wannabe, you all don;t need any N5A Helmets, hell you don;t even need gear..

    So really maybe just keep it quiet..cause the FD's are full of people that are ****ed about getting Full Time FF positions cut and general understaffing...SO, how do you think they will feel if a bunch of kids are essentially "taking their jobs"?

    You know, I;m sorry, but I;ve seen COUNTLESS posts about this kind of BS by a bunch of whiney kids, complaining about "not being ALLOWED" to do what THEY want, that THEIR GEAR isn;t as good as a REAL FF's..enough is enough.

    A Career Fire Officer..and one that has seen enough of these kids crap..
    Last edited by Northern Lights FF; 05-06-2011 at 05:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Lights FF View Post
    OK,

    I find the fact that ANY Juniors/Explorers or whatever you all are...get issued ANYTHING AT ALL absolutely incredible!......

    Bottom line..YOU all are little teenyboppers.NOT FIREFIGHTERS!..when YOU are 18 AND pass the testing/get hired on..then you can be issued with equipment.

    There is NO reason for having anyone under 18 having gear at all...you shouldn;t be riding apparatus, NOT being at ANY emergency scene period..certainly NOT responding to "calls" at any time, let alone by hearing it on a Department pager or 2 way radio..(again it;s rediculous to allow a minor access to controlled frequency FD radios)...

    This has gotten WAY out of hand. The original idea behind "junior's" was to be able to teach them first Aid, teach them the basics ( BOOKlearning) of Firefighting and allow for SOME hands on experience in CONTROLLED TRAINING SITUATIONS. Not to have a bunch of "super dupper "trained" Junior's running around a fire scene...God forbid someone gets hurt or killed by this idiotic "experience".

    You know, in Ontario Canada they actually banned even the COLLEGE Pre Fire Service Co-Op placements...and those are FULL TIME, FULLY QUALIFIED College Students!.

    So "kiddies"...save your money, your a wannabe, you all don;t need any N5A Helmets, hell you don;t even need gear..

    So really maybe just keep it quiet..cause the FD's are full of people that are ****ed about getting Full Time FF positions cut and general understaffing...SO, how do you think they will feel if a bunch of kids are essentially "taking their jobs"?

    You know, I;m sorry, but I;ve seen COUNTLESS posts about this kind of BS by a bunch of whiney kids, complaining about "not being ALLOWED" to do what THEY want, that THEIR GEAR isn;t as good as a REAL FF's..enough is enough.

    A Career Fire Officer..and one that has seen enough of these kids crap..
    That's a bit overboard. I understand where you're coming from but the kid didn't complain at all. He asked a simple question, seemed more like he was comparing than complaining.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Lights FF View Post
    OK,

    I find the fact that ANY Juniors/Explorers or whatever you all are...get issued ANYTHING AT ALL absolutely incredible!......

    Bottom line..YOU all are little teenyboppers.NOT FIREFIGHTERS!..when YOU are 18 AND pass the testing/get hired on..then you can be issued with equipment.

    There is NO reason for having anyone under 18 having gear at all...you shouldn;t be riding apparatus, NOT being at ANY emergency scene period..certainly NOT responding to "calls" at any time, let alone by hearing it on a Department pager or 2 way radio..(again it;s rediculous to allow a minor access to controlled frequency FD radios)...

    This has gotten WAY out of hand. The original idea behind "junior's" was to be able to teach them first Aid, teach them the basics ( BOOKlearning) of Firefighting and allow for SOME hands on experience in CONTROLLED TRAINING SITUATIONS. Not to have a bunch of "super dupper "trained" Junior's running around a fire scene...God forbid someone gets hurt or killed by this idiotic "experience".

    You know, in Ontario Canada they actually banned even the COLLEGE Pre Fire Service Co-Op placements...and those are FULL TIME, FULLY QUALIFIED College Students!.

    So "kiddies"...save your money, your a wannabe, you all don;t need any N5A Helmets, hell you don;t even need gear..

    So really maybe just keep it quiet..cause the FD's are full of people that are ****ed about getting Full Time FF positions cut and general understaffing...SO, how do you think they will feel if a bunch of kids are essentially "taking their jobs"?

    You know, I;m sorry, but I;ve seen COUNTLESS posts about this kind of BS by a bunch of whiney kids, complaining about "not being ALLOWED" to do what THEY want, that THEIR GEAR isn;t as good as a REAL FF's..enough is enough.

    A Career Fire Officer..and one that has seen enough of these kids crap..
    Yeah, kinda overboard. Every Senior member in my dept says that we are a big help at scenes. We get all of the stuff they need so they don't have to which means they have more time to do real work. While they are not 100% needed they are a really big help to everyone. (If they act as they should, we have one Junior on our dept that acts like he knows more than people who have been there 20 years and he's hyper and doesn't know ANYTHING. People like him are what gives Juniors bad names.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by 19echo95 View Post
    Yeah, kinda overboard. Every Senior member in my dept says that we are a big help at scenes. We get all of the stuff they need so they don't have to which means they have more time to do real work. While they are not 100% needed they are a really big help to everyone. (If they act as they should, we have one Junior on our dept that acts like he knows more than people who have been there 20 years and he's hyper and doesn't know ANYTHING. People like him are what gives Juniors bad names.)
    Exactly. Juniors are a major help on scene as long as they act professional and understand it's an emergency scene, not a park, and if they get in house training on what to do on an emergency scene. Simple things as changing SCBA bottles, helping at rehab, chasing kinks in a line. Every second counts, and if a junior knows how to do those small things in a SAFE professional way, they are a major asset on scene.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Lights FF View Post
    OK,

    I find the fact that ANY Juniors/Explorers or whatever you all are...get issued ANYTHING AT ALL absolutely incredible!......

    Bottom line..YOU all are little teenyboppers.NOT FIREFIGHTERS!..when YOU are 18 AND pass the testing/get hired on..then you can be issued with equipment.

    There is NO reason for having anyone under 18 having gear at all...you shouldn;t be riding apparatus, NOT being at ANY emergency scene period..certainly NOT responding to "calls" at any time, let alone by hearing it on a Department pager or 2 way radio..(again it;s rediculous to allow a minor access to controlled frequency FD radios)...

    This has gotten WAY out of hand. The original idea behind "junior's" was to be able to teach them first Aid, teach them the basics ( BOOKlearning) of Firefighting and allow for SOME hands on experience in CONTROLLED TRAINING SITUATIONS. Not to have a bunch of "super dupper "trained" Junior's running around a fire scene...God forbid someone gets hurt or killed by this idiotic "experience".

    You know, in Ontario Canada they actually banned even the COLLEGE Pre Fire Service Co-Op placements...and those are FULL TIME, FULLY QUALIFIED College Students!.

    So "kiddies"...save your money, your a wannabe, you all don;t need any N5A Helmets, hell you don;t even need gear..

    So really maybe just keep it quiet..cause the FD's are full of people that are ****ed about getting Full Time FF positions cut and general understaffing...SO, how do you think they will feel if a bunch of kids are essentially "taking their jobs"?

    You know, I;m sorry, but I;ve seen COUNTLESS posts about this kind of BS by a bunch of whiney kids, complaining about "not being ALLOWED" to do what THEY want, that THEIR GEAR isn;t as good as a REAL FF's..enough is enough.

    A Career Fire Officer..and one that has seen enough of these kids crap..
    Back off. It can be as easily said that your the type of person that thinks you know it all. Lets get some facts here, Pagers your never going to stop Jr.'s from getting pagers its just not going to happen, as for radios well i dont believe they should have radios but just because the department does not issue them these things does that mean your going to stop them from purchasing them? NO, i can go on ebay and search for a pager and find both high and lowband, also radios. If your smart enough you know theres websites out there to which you can locate frequencies on. No FD has a private frequency i can go on the FCC database and look it right up and find out everything about your departments radio information, then i can go do a google search and most likely come up with your tone frequencies. As for you saying you have seen countless posts about people complaining then stop reading these posts. Plain and simple.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Lights FF View Post
    A Career Fire Officer..and one that has seen enough of these kids crap..
    While I agree with your assessment that most of the kids of today have certainly become a bunch of demanding, selfish and whiney little turds, I have to disagree with you about the value of a well administrated and operationally controlled "Junior Firefighter" program. Perhaps your thoughts on the matter are poisoned as you are a career officer and your municipality has had a poorly-run and controlled program??

    I can only speak for my own organization which is a combination department. We have had Junior Firefighters since WWII. These members are ages 16 to 18. We have tightly controlled administrative and operational SOP's for the Juniors which, like any other SOP, may not be violated without discipline per the guidelines. Juniors at our place may (after being trained and pass qualification written and practical exams)

    -respond on apparatus to all emergencies, as long as there is room available on apparatus (never a problem in recent years, which is why the Juniors are especially welcome)

    -tag hydrants, hook up and charge supply lines
    -assist engineers hooking up lines
    -assist incident commanders with accountability, keepiong track of on-hand and incoming resources
    -help to raise ground ladders
    -gofer tools and equipment
    -set up rehab, get water, towels

    They may not operate inside an IDLH environment at any time. They may not raise ground ladders if smoke is banking down. They may not operate ANY kind of power tools, no iffs, ands or butts.

    Having our Juniors trained to the minimal levels that we do allows them to perform jobs that would otherwise have to be done by valuable senior personnel (and by the way this in no way is a slam against the Juniors...) Kind of nice not to have to waste a senior guy tagging a hydrant when he could be used on the initial attack handline.

    They do carry pagers, dependent upon availability (senior guys getting preference of course.) They do not get portables. They do get second-hand gear, but it is always serviceable gear that is in acceptable condition. Only senior members who have successfully passed FFI and show good attendance get custom-fit brand new gear (we buy 6-8 sets per year on a rotating basis.)

    They must abide by the child labor laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. During the school year, they may not respond between 2300 and 0600. In the summer they may respond 24 hours. They must maintain decent grades (not perfect, just decent.) Any poor grades is an immediate suspension of all FD activities until such time that grades are brought back up. I dont know if they are still allowed to leave school- back when I was a Junior we were allowed to, but I think I heard that they were thinking about stopping this. They may not bunk out overnight in the bunk room.

    Our Juniors, while in training, must train at all times while in the firehouse. They may not be in the living quarters or TV/Rec Room if they are not fully qualified to ride. If they are not Quald to ride, they must be out in the engine bays studying equipment locations, doing practical stuff with a senior FF or Officer, or in the Admin Offices in a quiet place studying Junior/Rookie manuals. Once they are qualifed to ride, they may go in the living quarters and TV/Rec Room, but woes them (and any rookies over 18 for that matter) if there are any dirty apparatus or tools, or other chores around the firehouse that needs to be done.

    We bring them in at a young, impressionable age and give them valuable life skills, not to mention training. Some of our Juniors (after advancing through to senior firefighter of course have gone off to:

    -Two members joined the ranks of the Philadelphia Fire Department (one is now a Lieutenant in a busy Truck Company)

    -One member has joined the ranks of the Baltimore FD

    -One has enlisted (and is still active duty after 8 years) in the USAF as a Firefighter

    -One has gone to the University of Maryland Fire Protection Engineer program, and is currently a live-in member of a busy Prince George's County company while he is getting his four-year engineering degree

    -Three (myself included) have gone on to become Federal Firefighters.

    In closing, again I agree that most of these kids today have become somewhat demanding and have a "whats in it for me" attitude. But at our place, they learn very quickly to "close mouth open eyes" and be thankful for the gear that they do get. For any invalid complaints or whining may result in their standing on the outside looking inside. Our Juniors are valuable members of our team, and we give them the respect they EARN.

    FWDbuff, Volunteer Officer, Career Firefighter D/O and Former JUNIOR FIREFIGHTER (1988-1990.)
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    FWD,

    Thanks for your post...I'm glad to see that your Dept. has got it so well organized...and glad to see that out of your Junior Program so many made the transition into the FF brotherhood...obviously something is being done right there..

    I may have come across to strong, BUT I still believe that in this day and age, where FD's are having companies cut, equipment shortages, staffing issues etc. that any Dept. could JUSTIFY to their tax paying citizens WHY kids are being "Issued" with pagers, radios, bunker gear etc....and WHY are they taking the jobs of Firefighters at a fire scene?....can you see how that could directly effect HOW a Community and Council could use that AGAINST a Fire Department?....they could say " hey, we don;t NEED to hire those 5 extra Firefighters!...we have these Juniors that will do it for FREE!"...
    OH, and look, the Budget Increase the Department just put in for...wel IF they have all this money to buy extra pagers and gear for these juniors, well, I guess the DEPARTMENT really doesn;'t need that budget increase!"

    can you see how that could happen?


    AND I did clearly say that a Junior Program that taught the kids First aid/CPR, the basics of FF'ing and SOME controlled training, you know fire service ropes and knots, THEORY of fire attack etc...could be of great benifit to the kids and the community in general

    BUT can anyone seriously DENY that there are countless posts in this section were kids are actively complaining that THEY are'nt being allowed to go interior?..that THEY ARE manning hoselines at actual calls?... Child Labour laws or not, simply put..these kids are doing things that they simply shouldn't in the first place...THEN complain about not doing MORE in a public forum!

    and for ANDREW R,

    SURE anyone COULD buy a pager or radio and look up the info...BUT IF YOU or anyone else trys to USE those radios without being a Recognized and Authorized user....then YOU can face federal repercussions..simply put, LIKE the Military radios, they are PROTECTED Frequencies...meaning that not everyone can use them, they ARE NOT PUBLIC ACCESS...and having an attitude of "well I'll just go and AGAIN do what I LIKE, and buy my own radio WITHOUT written approval of the Fire Chief, can and should land you in SERIOUS trouble, same with a pager...

    Surely you can see how having kids operating on a fire ground or FD frequency could cause severe issues for Incident Command and Dispatch...the way I see it...if Juniors want to use "radios"..well buy them some Motorola "talk abouts" or something in the public frequency range

    I am simply trying to point out some of the "ISSUES" with the actions, wants and complaints from these Juniors....obviously things that for the most part, can;t seem to see......
    Last edited by Northern Lights FF; 05-07-2011 at 11:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Lights FF View Post
    FWD,

    Thanks for your post...I'm glad to see that your Dept. has got it so well organized...and glad to see that out of your Junior Program so many made the transition into the FF brotherhood...obviously something is being done right there..

    I may have come across to strong, BUT I still believe that in this day and age, where FD's are having companies cut, equipment shortages, staffing issues etc. that any Dept. could JUSTIFY to their tax paying citizens WHY kids are being "Issued" with pagers, radios, bunker gear etc....and WHY are they taking the jobs of Firefighters at a fire scene?....can you see how that could directly effect HOW a Community and Council could use that AGAINST a Fire Department?....they could say " hey, we don;t NEED to hire those 5 extra Firefighters!...we have these Juniors that will do it for FREE!"...
    OH, and look, the Budget Increase the Department just put in for...wel IF they have all this money to buy extra pagers and gear for these juniors, well, I guess the DEPARTMENT really doesn;'t need that budget increase!"

    can you see how that could happen?


    AND I did clearly say that a Junior Program that taught the kids First aid/CPR, the basics of FF'ing and SOME controlled training, you know fire service ropes and knots, THEORY of fire attack etc...could be of great benifit to the kids and the community in general

    BUT can anyone seriously DENY that there are countless posts in this section were kids are actively complaining that THEY are'nt being allowed to go interior?..that THEY ARE manning hoselines at actual calls?... Child Labour laws or not, simply put..these kids are doing things that they simply shouldn't in the first place...THEN complain about not doing MORE in a public forum!

    and for ANDREW R,

    SURE anyone COULD buy a pager or radio and look up the info...BUT IF YOU or anyone else trys to USE those radios without being a Recognized and Authorized user....then YOU can face federal repercussions..simply put, LIKE the Military radios, they are PROTECTED Frequencies...meaning that not everyone can use them, they ARE NOT PUBLIC ACCESS...and having an attitude of "well I'll just go and AGAIN do what I LIKE, and buy my own radio WITHOUT written approval of the Fire Chief, can and should land you in SERIOUS trouble, same with a pager...

    Surely you can see how having kids operating on a fire ground or FD frequency could cause severe issues for Incident Command and Dispatch...the way I see it...if Juniors want to use "radios"..well buy them some Motorola "talk abouts" or something in the public frequency range

    I am simply trying to point out some of the "ISSUES" with the actions, wants and complaints from these Juniors....obviously things that for the most part, can;t seem to see......
    I can totally understand where you're coming from now that you explained it a little more. Yes juniors should not be given brand new anything. Nothing wrong with 2nd hand stuff that's still in fair to good condition. When I was a junior, I took what was given to me and asked for nothing more, tried to learn as much as possible in a safe way where I wasn't getting in the way of anything. I do agree that juniors should NOT have radios. That is one thing that will cause more harm than good. You made the point that juniors should not be able to buy radios/pagers without written approval, my department runs that way, and so far it's worked out great. You made many valid points, just wish you weren't so harsh on the kid at first. Stay safe out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Lights FF View Post
    FWD,

    Thanks for your post...I'm glad to see that your Dept. has got it so well organized...and glad to see that out of your Junior Program so many made the transition into the FF brotherhood...obviously something is being done right there..

    I may have come across to strong, BUT I still believe that in this day and age, where FD's are having companies cut, equipment shortages, staffing issues etc. that any Dept. could JUSTIFY to their tax paying citizens WHY kids are being "Issued" with pagers, radios, bunker gear etc....and WHY are they taking the jobs of Firefighters at a fire scene?....can you see how that could directly effect HOW a Community and Council could use that AGAINST a Fire Department?....they could say " hey, we don;t NEED to hire those 5 extra Firefighters!...we have these Juniors that will do it for FREE!"...
    OH, and look, the Budget Increase the Department just put in for...wel IF they have all this money to buy extra pagers and gear for these juniors, well, I guess the DEPARTMENT really doesn;'t need that budget increase!"

    can you see how that could happen?


    AND I did clearly say that a Junior Program that taught the kids First aid/CPR, the basics of FF'ing and SOME controlled training, you know fire service ropes and knots, THEORY of fire attack etc...could be of great benifit to the kids and the community in general

    BUT can anyone seriously DENY that there are countless posts in this section were kids are actively complaining that THEY are'nt being allowed to go interior?..that THEY ARE manning hoselines at actual calls?... Child Labour laws or not, simply put..these kids are doing things that they simply shouldn't in the first place...THEN complain about not doing MORE in a public forum!

    and for ANDREW R,

    SURE anyone COULD buy a pager or radio and look up the info...BUT IF YOU or anyone else trys to USE those radios without being a Recognized and Authorized user....then YOU can face federal repercussions..simply put, LIKE the Military radios, they are PROTECTED Frequencies...meaning that not everyone can use them, they ARE NOT PUBLIC ACCESS...and having an attitude of "well I'll just go and AGAIN do what I LIKE, and buy my own radio WITHOUT written approval of the Fire Chief, can and should land you in SERIOUS trouble, same with a pager...

    Surely you can see how having kids operating on a fire ground or FD frequency could cause severe issues for Incident Command and Dispatch...the way I see it...if Juniors want to use "radios"..well buy them some Motorola "talk abouts" or something in the public frequency range

    I am simply trying to point out some of the "ISSUES" with the actions, wants and complaints from these Juniors....obviously things that for the most part, can;t seem to see......
    Actually at our department, we are pretty much self funded and volunteer. I am a junior. I go to calls. I have a pager, full turnout gear and a mini-plate for my vehicle. I get gear that is available, it is only new if we don't have any. I do all the in house training like everyone else and even do some outside of the department and it is encouraged and payed for by the department. I can run any call but medical (some weird in-house thing that I am hoping to get an exception for if I get my EMT-FR). I do the crap that no one else wants to do and frees a more qualified person to do the crap that they are qualified for. I do things like rehab, accountability, hydrants, assist with ladders (not in an IDLH situation) and I am in the process of being pumps qualified. I also do accident cleanup and gofer tools for extrication. I provide assistance to free up the more seniors so they can go into ILDH environments. I do not go interior for obvious reasons and I have not heard of any junior or explorer group who does. And because it is a volunteer department, turnout can sometimes be an issue, my presence is usually welcome. So I don't see why Juniors/explorers should not have gear and pagers. WE GET PAGERS AND GEAR BECAUSE WE HELP AT THE FIREGROUND AND THE DEPARTMENT WANTS US TO LEARN SO THAT WHEN WE GET ON THE REGULAR DEPARTMENT, WE KNOW WHAT THE HELL WE'RE DOING. SO STOP B****ING AT JUNIORS/EXPLORERS WHO ARE JUST TRYING TO LEARN AND DO MORE IN THE FIRE SERVICE.
    Last edited by nr9306; 05-07-2011 at 10:18 PM.

  23. #23
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    Firstly, it;s not just bitching.......
    It seems like several people here just cannot see how incredibly dangerous and foolish it is to have kids "working" on a fire scene...

    You say that YOU do accountability?...do you have any formal training on it?...do you understand the liability involved?..YOU are responsible of keeping track of everyones whereabouts, actions, tasks etc right?....SO, as a "Junior" YOU are going to be able to deal with a high stress, pannic ridden situation like a MAYDAY? or a RIT activation?....B.S....Do you understand that in that type of event YOU, Your DEPT. and IC will be HUNG OUT TO DRY?...If a FF got killed or injured while YOU where at the "accountability" board, the Lawyers and prosectuters and investigators would chew you all up.....PERIOD...

    AGAIN, YOU, as a Junior, clearly just said that YOU WANT TO CHANGE the rules of your Dept. for YOUR wants....Obviously the FD doesn;t want kids dealing with traumas and med calls for a reason..why should they change the rules to please you?....this is the same sort of B.S. that I was refering to...thank you SO much for re highlighting the points I was making...

    Take it easy...enjoy being a kid...worry about "knowing what the hell your doing" WHEN you get hired and TRAINED as a Fire Fighter...cause whatever you "Learn" now, won;t mean crap in another Department..you still get trained, learn THEIR way of doing things.....

    Stick to learning things that CAN be carried over....CPR/DeFib/F.A. etc...

    I just have a very hard time thinking that I am the only one that sees the incredibly high level of risk and liability having Juniors anywhere near a fire scene...

    and justifying it by saying that "You do the crap that no one else wants to do" is GARBAGE...if a FF is assigned a task, any task...than they should complete it quickly efficiently and get on with it.......even or especially the crappy details.......

    You know, FWD and Ryan K seem to have understood what I was saying...I even appologized for maybe voicing what I wanted to say to strongly......then low and behold another "wonderboy Junior" shows up and tells me to shut up...then exempilifies EXACTLY what I was saying in the first place.......Nothing more than a Junior WHACKER in the making from what I can see........NR9036, I can;t see you doing well in Fire Service if your already bucking the system and trying to get IT to fit YOU......YOU should be serving in IT for the public.......

    Keep it up......the Juniors/explorers program sure is doing wonders in producing attitudes like some on here......

    TO those Juniors that at least understood ( didn;t say agree with) my points, than keep at it.....stay on the RIGHT path and mind set.......and good luck...

  24. #24
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    Disclaimer: My official title is auxiliary. I am 18 years old, I've been in the "auxiliary" role since I was 16. Our departments by-laws don't allow full membership until age 21. I'm FFI & Haz-Mat Ops certified. With that said, here's my input.

    I started FFI class when I was 16, wasn't allowed to test until I turned 18, which was a year and a half after that. As a junior/auxiliary/whateveryouwannacallit, I didn't ride calls till after I finished my FFI class. I'm also a member in a small, close-knit community and my dad has been a member on the same department for 35 years. Not saying I was an exception or anything, but all of the other FF's new me. I was issued a pager about a year ago, and have been responding to calls since. I also leave school for calls (I'm a senior, with 4 days left). The only reason I do this is because my principal literally asked me if I wanted to, and told me as long as I kept in good scholastic standing I'm good to go. Of course, I've held up to his standards. Our department does only fire, no EMS, but since I've turned 18, I joined our local ambulance service as a volunteer. I'm one of three cross-trained FF/EMS on our department, one of which is another auxiliary member, and the other only drives for the ambulance, he does no time in the back. The other night we had a bad 10-50, multiple ejections and another victim needing extrication. The fire department always beats the ambulance to calls, so I would be the first EMS person on scene. (I'm not certified to any EMT or FR level. I've only had in house training and CPR.) I had the other guys in the back of the rescue asking ME what to do when we got there and how I would need them to assist me in stabilizing these victims as much as possible until ambulances arrived. These other guys basically put me in charge of these victims until I had more highly trained EMS people arrive.

    Now, I understand this is only one incident, and one case. I also understand that every department is different. My department holds our "auxiliary" members to as high of if not higher expectations as they hold regular firefighters. One a scene, they expect us to operate as any other firefighter who can't do certain things. We have regular maintenance schedules like regular members. We have attendance requirements, and we are trained to as high of level as regular members. As far as gear, we are issued the same stuff as regular firefighters. We were issued spare gear, but essentially the same stuff as regular members. I got a pager, no radio, but regular FF's don't have portables either. They are on the trucks.

    In conclusion, my department is very different from any other one with a junior program. A program was developed that fits the department very well. Maybe this is an example of how successful junior program can be run.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Lights FF View Post
    Firstly, it;s not just bitching.......
    It seems like several people here just cannot see how incredibly dangerous and foolish it is to have kids "working" on a fire scene...

    You say that YOU do accountability?...do you have any formal training on it?...do you understand the liability involved?..YOU are responsible of keeping track of everyones whereabouts, actions, tasks etc right?....SO, as a "Junior" YOU are going to be able to deal with a high stress, pannic ridden situation like a MAYDAY? or a RIT activation?....B.S....Do you understand that in that type of event YOU, Your DEPT. and IC will be HUNG OUT TO DRY?...If a FF got killed or injured while YOU where at the "accountability" board, the Lawyers and prosectuters and investigators would chew you all up.....PERIOD...

    AGAIN, YOU, as a Junior, clearly just said that YOU WANT TO CHANGE the rules of your Dept. for YOUR wants....Obviously the FD doesn;t want kids dealing with traumas and med calls for a reason..why should they change the rules to please you?....this is the same sort of B.S. that I was refering to...thank you SO much for re highlighting the points I was making...

    Take it easy...enjoy being a kid...worry about "knowing what the hell your doing" WHEN you get hired and TRAINED as a Fire Fighter...cause whatever you "Learn" now, won;t mean crap in another Department..you still get trained, learn THEIR way of doing things.....

    Stick to learning things that CAN be carried over....CPR/DeFib/F.A. etc...

    I just have a very hard time thinking that I am the only one that sees the incredibly high level of risk and liability having Juniors anywhere near a fire scene...

    and justifying it by saying that "You do the crap that no one else wants to do" is GARBAGE...if a FF is assigned a task, any task...than they should complete it quickly efficiently and get on with it.......even or especially the crappy details.......

    You know, FWD and Ryan K seem to have understood what I was saying...I even appologized for maybe voicing what I wanted to say to strongly......then low and behold another "wonderboy Junior" shows up and tells me to shut up...then exempilifies EXACTLY what I was saying in the first place.......Nothing more than a Junior WHACKER in the making from what I can see........NR9036, I can;t see you doing well in Fire Service if your already bucking the system and trying to get IT to fit YOU......YOU should be serving in IT for the public.......

    Keep it up......the Juniors/explorers program sure is doing wonders in producing attitudes like some on here......

    TO those Juniors that at least understood ( didn;t say agree with) my points, than keep at it.....stay on the RIGHT path and mind set.......and good luck...
    I get in house training if that is what you are wondering. State laws allow me to do accountability, so if the legislature thinks its ok, than I don't see a liability problem. I don't suppose you are a lawyer who has memorized the state laws, if so please tell me and I will inform my chief. Our department encourages all the training and experience I can get. That is one of the reasons they like the junior program, so that when I turn 18 and get on the regular dept., most of the necessary training to become active has already been completed and there is experience on top of it. I would also be the first junior EMT on on the dept. so I would not be just changing the rules for the hell of it, I would have training and would be useful, clearly something you don't think would be true just because I'm 17. Forgive me for being a little defensive but you have struck a nerve. The junior program did not produce my attitude, YOU DID.

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