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  1. #21
    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    I believe sumphin uses magic mushrooms to brew theirs.
    Cobra certainly has been partaking of the magic juice.

    I think he is either a Sutphen sales rep (Or dealer) or employee. All through his posts online, you can see Sutphen as the perfect rig, and lots of mysterious claims that never seem to add up. Lots of "hit and run" attacks like this one here.


    Now, for the Hamlin fire rig - it looks like a nice rig. And if I was Hamlin fire, I would do everything I could to buy from a dealer/servicer less than 20 miles from my department like they did. Way too many economies there. It just makes sense. Perhaps they had to say "something" to justify it to someone, but what people need to remember that it is not a low bid world, but a low bid that MEETS YOUR REQUIREMENT world.

    But the salespuke that comes in putting his competition down - no matter how right he is, or how wrong he is, that is the one that I am going to not think very highly about.


  2. #22
    Forum Member Fyrtrks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    That is not correct. A bid bond is the assurance that a bidder will honor his bid and sign a contract for what they have presented at the bid opening. Many cities require bid bonds even when no performance bond will be required. Simply put, if the AHJ chooses your bid and you, for some reason, do not want to sign the contract, you forfeit your bond amount. This is the reason cash can be accepted for bid bonds.
    That's what I meant.
    Last edited by Fyrtrks; 04-14-2011 at 11:19 AM.
    Fyrtrks

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    I think he is either a Sutphen sales rep (Or dealer) or employee. All through his posts online, you can see Sutphen as the perfect rig, and lots of mysterious claims that never seem to add up. Lots of "hit and run" attacks like this one here.
    I am neither of these, but I should start selling trucks. My background is outdoor power equipment design. After looking at each manufacturer out there and what they could offer us, we decided to go with Sutphen. We have dealt with Sutphen for a few years now and made a conscious effort to commonize our fleet with their products. The factories are not far away and the products are great. If we need service, we can drive the truck there and have it serviced at the factory, or we can have their mobile technician/shop come to our place. I am passing along my thoughts of the company and their service since everyone seems to forget about Sutphen. Even if you don't like them, they are worth a shot in quoting trucks.

  4. #24
    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
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    Whatever your motive is about passing on good is fine - but what about all your hit and run attacks? Do you have ANY substance for your claims about Southern Fire Service and Sales?

    This could be very valuable to me, as I posted I am picking up a truck tomorrow!

  5. #25
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    Yes - neighboring department went out to bid on a tanker and it came back around $170k, but the truck was also not NFPA compliant. I have not sat down to look at their spec and see exactly what it was that was not to spec, but they decided against this place due to this. They also found people that had their trucks and complained of cheap, chinsy design, and poor quality. They were scared off and moved on to different manufacturers to quote. Just a heads up for all of you.

  6. #26
    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
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    Ok... As I have stated, 13 calls to 13 department culled from their customer list, each and every one stated they would gladly buy again. All of them report having NFPA compliant trucks. My specs are very clear about NFPA compliance. The two rigs I saw while I toured their facility looked just as good as any other manufacturer I have climbed all over, as have the two I saw in Missouri, the one in TN, and the one in AL.

    I call BS. Just my opinion, but I find it hard to believe with all my research I would not have heard something. I even posted to PA fire, and here asking for opinions.

    Again it sounds like an agency trying to justify their reasoning for picking someone else, and they should realize they can make justifications a lot easier than bad mouthing.

  7. #27
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    It wasn't BS. They had a genuine reason for moving away from that builder and went with something more expensive. This was the first time I heard of this builder and for me, I do not have any other experience with them.

  8. #28
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    Smile

    our fd justwent thru the whole process with the bids, we are in alabama, we took bids from 7 or 8 builders in our surrounding states, southern fire was the low bidder, but their truck was no where near specs, they spec'd galv. piping for pump, no Quality assurance program, and contract, well, all i can say is read carefully. after much deliberation, and most compliant with our spec, we signed contract last month with Pierce. word of advise, do not settle for anything less than what your dept needs and wants.

  9. #29
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93Cobra View Post
    Yes - neighboring department went out to bid on a tanker and it came back around $170k, but the truck was also not NFPA compliant. I have not sat down to look at their spec and see exactly what it was that was not to spec, but they decided against this place due to this. They also found people that had their trucks and complained of cheap, chinsy design, and poor quality. They were scared off and moved on to different manufacturers to quote. Just a heads up for all of you.
    Knowing something about speccing helps here. Not ONE of the last five rigs we bought has suffered from these afflictions. And they were NOT all from the same builder. Put together a good spec with a GOOD final inspection you will have VERY little trouble with most builders. T.C.

  10. #30
    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93Cobra View Post
    It wasn't BS. They had a genuine reason for moving away from that builder and went with something more expensive. This was the first time I heard of this builder and for me, I do not have any other experience with them.
    Just so I get this right. You have not seen the bid or the response. You have no knowledge of the company. Someone with another department told you this, so it is gospel, even though that other department had a GREAT reason for their purchase from a local dealer of another product.

    Sort of like those mythical door seals you were carrying on about.

  11. #31
    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmfire21 View Post
    our fd justwent thru the whole process with the bids, we are in alabama, we took bids from 7 or 8 builders in our surrounding states, southern fire was the low bidder, but their truck was no where near specs, they spec'd galv. piping for pump, no Quality assurance program, and contract, well, all i can say is read carefully. after much deliberation, and most compliant with our spec, we signed contract last month with Pierce. word of advise, do not settle for anything less than what your dept needs and wants.
    I think this holds true across the board. 3 years ago I bought a new pumper with CAFS. The problems you relate with southern are pretty much the problems I had with Pierce. I could not even get a line drawing from them. When asked, they sent me one for a completely different style of engine, then asked again they sent me ones for a totally different engine AGAIN!

    The specs were ignored in their response. We ended up with the most expensive bid that time, not Pierce.

    Like Rescue 101 says, It is all in the specs and the inspection.

  12. #32
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    lv: agree 100%. i guarentee you i alone spent probably over 70 hours disecting everyone of those bids. comparing each component and option to come out with best truck for the $. like i said, we received 8 bids, and pierce was the 2nd lowest bidder, for our new pumper. International chassis, top mount waterous pump, husky foam system, full LED warning and scene lights, roll-up doors (painted) , two-tone paint job, Q, rear camera system, stainless steel plumbling, aluminum body, ect.

  13. #33
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93Cobra View Post
    I am neither of these, but I should start selling trucks.
    You couldn't sell trucks. The first rule of good salesmanship is that you don't trash the competition.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    You couldn't sell trucks. The first rule of good salesmanship is that you don't trash the competition.
    C
    Heh.

    You and I don't agree on a lot of stuff but here we see eye to eye.

    I have signed contracts at bid openings because opposing dealer reps could do nothing other than bad mouth my dealer's product. Once, two reps fought so hard against each other the trustees couldn't wait to sign and just get the meeting over.

    But, I wouldn't call it salesmanship. I would call it common sense. Sure, point out your benefits, just do it in a way that doesn't appear petty. (Koolaid anyone?)

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADC120 View Post
    My department just opened bids on a 3000 gal tanker, and received a proposal from Freedom Fire equipment out of GA. We're looking for a simple design with modest storage, so their truck fits our need. We have talked to several of their customers who seem happy, but this list was provided by Freedom. Does anyone on here have any thoughts on them?
    probably too late since I have been off the forums for a month or more, however our new "freedom" generated three work parties and taught the folks a lesson about mail order bids.

    We had to rerun a couple of plumbing lines plus tear into another engine that caught the debris it pumped on a relay drill.

    The comercial chassis is fine and they paid for the labor and material. Would not buy from anyone with out a shop & dealer in my state ever again.

  16. #36
    Forum Member FIREMECH1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Just so I get this right. You have not seen the bid or the response. You have no knowledge of the company. Someone with another department told you this, so it is gospel, even though that other department had a GREAT reason for their purchase from a local dealer of another product.

    Sort of like those mythical door seals you were carrying on about.
    I wouldn't sweat anything the cobra has to say about anything. Not being mean or anything, but unless Sutphen built it, or has it, all others are junk in his eyes.

    Just like the door seals, me and anybody that has a Spartan cab and chassis, have never seen the issue he said was so obvious. So yeah, I question everything he posts.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  17. #37
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    Default Non NFPA

    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Interesting - why can they not make a NFPA compliant truck? What guys said the quality was low? You are the first person I have heard say anything like this?

    The truck I am picking up is certainly being built and tested to NFPA....
    I would take a close look. I have seen some builders list a 2 hour pump test. NFPA is not 2 hours. Look it up. It is easy for companies to build non nfpa. If they want the sale bad enough they will do it. You would be shocked at the big name companies that do it from time to time. And yes, some of the variations are minor, but NON NFPA none the less.

    Be very carefull just because they have bought multiple trucks from one source, it doesnt mean better. It couls just be local service or the chief buys the trucks and just likes a certian sales rep. I have a chief who wants to buy everything from me. I have to steer him to other vendors on certian equipment because we dont carry what I believe to be the best.

    Be careful. Too many salesreps are not firefighters or just care about the money and will sell you anything.

  18. #38
    Forum Member SFD_E73_RET's Avatar
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    It may not be compliant because the tandem commercial chassis is not equipped with RSC or ESC and they have not invested in a tilt table to test the apparatus and certify it as compliant. I believe there are a lot of the "tanker builders" that are not tilt tableing the trucks they are turning out. I believe too that there are people buying these trucks with FEMA money from AFG's and I think that is a no-no if they aren't compliant.

  19. #39
    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
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    In Southern's case, I went to their factory before the bid was awarded. I saw their testing equipment, I read their specs, I read NFPA requirements.

    I am quite comfortable with my purchase being compliant.

    I can't speak for any other manufacturer than KME, but that is only because I saw their equipment also when I bought a KME.

    I am not going to take any manufacturer upon blind faith, no koolaid is that sweet.

  20. #40
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lvfd301 View Post
    in southern's case, i went to their factory before the bid was awarded. I saw their testing equipment, i read their specs, i read nfpa requirements.

    I am quite comfortable with my purchase being compliant.

    I can't speak for any other manufacturer than kme, but that is only because i saw their equipment also when i bought a kme.

    I am not going to take any manufacturer upon blind faith, no koolaid is that sweet.
    got pics? T.c.

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