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    Default Difference between an Engine and a Wagon?

    Hello
    I have always wondered what the difference between an Engine and a Wagon is? I know a lot of Fire Departments up North, have these and down here in Tennesse we just have Engines. Can somebody give me some reasons for the difference between these?

    Thanks

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    The spelling? That's it. It is just slang. Old school term for an engine is "hose wagon", thereby shorted to "wagon".

    Not to be confused with other terminology issues that do actually have different meanings in different parts of the country. For example:

    Out west, a "tanker" is a large aircraft that dumps water or retardent on wildfires. A "tender" is a big fat truck that hold a lot of water. Where out east, we don't have airplanes at all and our big fat water trucks are called tankers.

    As far as anyone on the eastern seaboard knows, a tender is a piece of chicken, fried or baked, served with your choice of dipping sauces.
    Last edited by nmfire; 04-15-2011 at 05:40 PM.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Some of the mid Atlantic guys need to verify this, but I was alwys told it was a throw back to the days of two piece engines companies. A hose wagon used to run with the steamer. Some departments still call the 2nd out engine a wagon.
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    A "tender" is a big fat truck that hold a lot of water.
    I would remind you that a lot of tenders view these forums and would be offended by your use of the term "fat". Besides...

    ...they're just retaining water.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    A "tender" is a big fat truck that hold a lot of water.
    A "Tender" usually contains Chicken and goes well with BBQ sauce.
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    Actually in the original meanings of engine and wagon they had distinctly different uses.

    Originally, the wagon carried the hose and apliances and the engine had nothing but the pump and perhaps hard suction or a soft sleeve. The engine went to the water source and the wagon laid out from the fire to the engine.

    More recently Washington DC used to run engines and wagons. They ran very similar to that concept with the company having 2 pieces of apparatus, usually identical engines. The wagon was staffed with a full crew and the engine most often with just a driver. The wagon did the actual firefighting and the engine supplied them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Actually in the original meanings of engine and wagon they had distinctly different uses.

    Originally, the wagon carried the hose and apliances and the engine had nothing but the pump and perhaps hard suction or a soft sleeve. The engine went to the water source and the wagon laid out from the fire to the engine.

    More recently Washington DC used to run engines and wagons. They ran very similar to that concept with the company having 2 pieces of apparatus, usually identical engines. The wagon was staffed with a full crew and the engine most often with just a driver. The wagon did the actual firefighting and the engine supplied them.
    There's a very interesting video from the 50's by the LAFD that illistrates this operation perfectly. In addition, there are probably another 10-15 videos done at the same time by The LAFD that illiostrate many other firefighting operations from that era.

    I beleive it's called something like "Your Fire Department".

    It's actually a pretty cool series of videos if you enjoy watching firefighting operations from the past.
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    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffmedcbk1 View Post
    Great link. Kinda wondered how they did it in the day, minus 60 years. Very different from today, but some of it still applies today.

    Thanks.

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    THESE are tenders.
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    I always thought that a wagon was small & red with little whhels that you pulled around as a kid with your new tricycle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    THESE are tenders.
    Another kind of Tender. T.C.
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    Default Re:

    OK now I'm super annoyed. This is officially the worst thread ever!!!! It's pouring & after reading it all I want to do is grill some of those tenders!!!! Well the rain is only coming down at a slight angle right now & not sideways so maybe I can sneak out...

    I am glad that I wasn't the only one confused by this though. This part of Pa doesn't have any "Wagons" at least in an official name. Seeing them all over Md & Va I've been wondering what the difference between an "Engine" and "Wagon" to the point I've checked out the specs to see if it was certain equipment carried/not carried or if it were Wagons had had to have a certain amount of LDH or whatever & I couldn't figure it out. Don't think I'll be standing outside in 40 degree rain to grill though. LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by One13Truck View Post
    OK now I'm super annoyed. This is officially the worst thread ever!!!! It's pouring & after reading it all I want to do is grill some of those tenders!!!! Well the rain is only coming down at a slight angle right now & not sideways so maybe I can sneak out...

    I am glad that I wasn't the only one confused by this though. This part of Pa doesn't have any "Wagons" at least in an official name. Seeing them all over Md & Va I've been wondering what the difference between an "Engine" and "Wagon" to the point I've checked out the specs to see if it was certain equipment carried/not carried or if it were Wagons had had to have a certain amount of LDH or whatever & I couldn't figure it out. Don't think I'll be standing outside in 40 degree rain to grill though. LOL
    It is never to cold or wet to grill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rm1524 View Post
    It is never to cold or wet to grill.
    My grill is never closed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    My grill is never closed.
    Had the regulator freeze up one night and I thought I was going to cry, but a few mintues with a hair dryer on the regulator and I did have a GRILLED steak for dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rm1524 View Post
    Had the regulator freeze up one night and I thought I was going to cry, but a few mintues with a hair dryer on the regulator and I did have a GRILLED steak for dinner.
    Thats why I shut mine off at the tank before the burner and let it burn off every time. Never had a problem yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffmedcbk1 View Post
    Very neat video.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Thats why I shut mine off at the tank before the burner and let it burn off every time. Never had a problem yet.
    It happened while I was cooking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    Very neat video.
    Yes, that is one of them.

    There are a few others which I just found.

    You-tube "old lafd training videos" and you'll find stuff on pump operations, driving and tillering a tiller, company response and some other stuff from the late 40's.

    Obviously it's dated but it really very interesting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reliance View Post
    I always thought that a wagon was small & red with little whhels that you pulled around as a kid with your new tricycle.
    Like this?

    C6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Command6 View Post
    Like this?

    C6
    A little bit smaller but similiar

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    To answer the original question:

    As several posters have pointed out, it stems from the days of two-piece engine companies, in which the hose wagon laid out and proceeded to the fire, and the pumper pumped the line(s) from the hydrant.

    Since two-piece companies are now a thing of the past (even in DC), a lot of departments will still refer to their engine as a "wagon", because - in any first-due scenario - it is laying out from the hydrant to the fire, just as the hose wagons used to do. If you were to refer to the "pumper" in a fire scenario, it would be the second (or fourth) arriving engine, which is pumping the hydrant (hence acting as a the "pumper" in days of old). Nobody wants to think of themselves as second-due all the time, so naturally you are going to refer to your single-piece engine company as a "wagon" and not a "pumper".

    Some volunteer houses that run two or more engines will refer to the piece that's currently running first-out as the wagon, and the second out as the pumper.

    "Engine" may be used interchangeably with "pumper", but more often nowadays "Engine" will refer, broadly, to the company/piece of apparatus, rather than its specific role.

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    Quote Originally Posted by One13Truck View Post
    I am glad that I wasn't the only one confused by this though. This part of Pa doesn't have any "Wagons" at least in an official name. Seeing them all over Md & Va I've been wondering what the difference between an "Engine" and "Wagon" to the point I've checked out the specs to see if it was certain equipment carried/not carried or if it were Wagons had had to have a certain amount of LDH or whatever & I couldn't figure it out.
    When you figure out the technical difference between a "Ladder" and a "Truck", you will have figured out the difference between an "Engine" and a "Wagon".

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzfireSolo View Post
    When you figure out the technical difference between a "Ladder" and a "Truck", you will have figured out the difference between an "Engine" and a "Wagon".
    Well said. I still would rather call it a pumper though

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